Does being enfemme create a heterosexual experience?

[Wickanne GG]

There is an amazing phenomenon in this part of the world…it’s called, Free Will. Those who choose to answer will; they obviously see the value of enlightening people. Those who choose not to answer have their reasons. Those who choose to tell me it is none of my business…well...they just wasted their time. No one is forcing anyone to answer my question.

I will thank those of you who recently posted. I appreciate you taking the time to enlighten me. Since I am involved with CDs it is my business to have a basic understanding of the issues he wants to discuss with me…anything from breast forms to being bi-curious to wigs. As an individual, he reserves the right to make adjustments to my understanding of the issue.

If you are curiose as how I see myself after years of thought and confusion
Im a boy who likes panties,glitter ,oil ,dirt ,wrenches,bowes,ribbons,adventure ,romance and being a girl but still a boy who wants to fall in love with a girl (and play dress forever after)

If you read all that wow and thanks for bieng a friend

I am just curious :-) because of a recent situation and that curiosity fuels a need to understand various situations.

I stated in one of my earlier posts that I do not believe crossdressing "causes" gay feels.....

Yes, I did read all of your post :-)


Wickanne

[SatinDoll00]

I stated in one of my earlier posts that I do not believe crossdressing "causes" gay feels.....

I agree. I do believe that in some, the same thing that causes the urge to crossdress also causes the urge to explore sexuality.

I have never met or talked to anyone that 'turned gay' because they were a crossdresser.

Now I am not saying that has never happened. I have not met or talked to every single crossdresser and gay person in the world, so I know for a fact that I cannot make that generalization.

For what it is worth...I do not think there was anything wrong with your question. I did my best to answer it to the best of my ablility without too much outside info.

Morgan

[PortiaHoney]

My question is, does being emfemme create the illusion of a heterosexual experience for you? Does being dressed like a female set your mind in a mode/state where you believe that sex with another male is a heterosexual experience? I am not certain which of those questions would be clearer for your understanding of what I am trying to ask.

Who is trying to kid who? I have had one attempt at a relationship with a guy, who was femme gay. He was very understanding and understood better than I that my curiosity at having a relationship with him had more to do with what I thought should be than what was actually going on. Turns out he knew I was straight but had to let me find out for myself. I still have a soft spot in my heart for him, but sex??? Still I was curious - does that make me gay? Even though I was in a very femme period at that time, at no point did I consider that a relationship with a guy in femme mode would make me think it was a heterosexual experience. I was attracted to him for his femme qualities, I have never been attracted to guys because of "other" qualities.

However, if I were to TG then would that then make my relationship with a male hetero according to your parameters???? To me, for me to have a heterosexual relationship with a male would only happen should I make the transition and live FTG. CD does not change my gender - just appearance of gender fitting in with the picture in my head.

It's an individual thing and your small survey has 2 many restrictions. Some would like to justify that being enfemme makes it a hetero experience but I think that has more to do with labels than mindset.

You may fantasize about being the female partner, you may role play the female role, you may believe that you are with another guy in a hetero experience, but the second you acknowledge that you have the same equipment - guess what.....

It may be the group you are conversing with is just that, a group with similar experiences and justifications, so you will get similar answers.

Thank you for being open with your question but I find it strange that you leave it up to him to adjust your understanding of these issues just after you mentioned Free Will?????????? Please don't get the wrong impression from my reply, I admire you for seeking further information and keeping an open mind - I just hate labels......

[Marcie Sexton]

I'm with karren...I've spent 20 + years with my wife, who is totally supportive and wouldn't trade her for all the tea in china...

I have yet to see any one who could/would make me stray...unless linda carter ask...lollike that is going to happen too...

Just ain't happening...Just mark me 110% heteralsexual...

[Zee]

This question is like saying that "Pot" is a gateway drug.

For some, it may be, for the majority, it isn't.

Same applies here. It really depends on your disposition.

[MsJanessa]

As most of those who have read My posts know I'm bisexual---attracted to pretty women and T-girls(ok I guess that's inbetween) and to a lesser extent to men----but it seems like a waste of time and effort worrying about "Am I gay, straight, or bi" What difference does it make?---youre attracted to whatever and whoever youre attracted to----obsessing about it is really an indication of homophobia and as long as the objects of your affection are consenting adults then it's ok with Me and should be ok with everyone else.

[AmandaM]

I still contend that a MTF TS does not have gay sex, even before SRS. She has sex as a woman. Since that is what she is. CDers can be gay. A CDer with TS tendecies may be gay,bi or just female in sexuality. The classic definition of gay and bi supported by many on this board only takes into account which body you are born with. I think this is highly insulting. It's as controlling as those who say TS's were born men, so they have to stay that way. I can find no reason to say I have bi-tendencies other than I have a male body. In no definition of bi that exists, do I identify with that definition. But, if you want to stay in the middle ages, go ahead. Forcing those with TS tendencies to be called gay and bi only serves the gay agenda.

Ha! There, I said it. I'm done now. You can attack me if you want, but this is my belief.

[Mary Morgan]

I'm probably off the mark here, but I need to comment on these questions. What I read, hear, see, and feel about crossdressing is that for whatever reason, most of us enjoy it, find it comforting, relaxing, exciting, even right. That being said, it seems to me that it would follow that a crossdresser might well enjoy sex or anything else more while en femme. As for me, I would love to make love to my wife while dressed, but that isn't going to happen. She is the one who is hung up on what that would be called, not me. I understand her feelings even if I don't understand my own.

[Wickanne GG]

It seems the longer a thread gets and floats away from the original question the more people are drifting into making/thinking this thread is about sexual preference. It has nothing to do with asking if you are straight, bi, bi-curious, or gay. It has to do with perception.

I have received replies that address what the thread asks. You have no idea how those replies are so greatly appreciated.

It's an individual thing and your small survey has 2 many restrictions. Some would like to justify that being enfemme makes it a hetero experience but I think that has more to do with labels than mindset.

It’s not a survey, it’s a question. Yes, it has restriction because I am not here asking about someone’s sexual orientation. I am not asking what someone had for breakfast. I am asking how someone enfemme sees them self with-in an encounter with another male.

Let's face it, labels are there for a reason. They explain a definition in a word or two. EXAMPLE: If use the term, "homosexuality" and you know what it means without me writing a half a page to explain it. If you don't like the "label" then come up with another word, use it, make it mainstream, and then submit it to Webster's Dictionary, but then it becomes a "label" for someone else to dislike. I understand that “labels” generalize and that is the intent, but until you can come up with something better they will always be apart of everyday life.

You may fantasize about being the female partner, you may role play the female role, you may believe that you are with another guy in a hetero experience, but the second you acknowledge that you have the same equipment - guess what.....

But isn’t that what fantasy is about…the mindset…the illusion…it’s what one wants to believe in that moment.

It may be the group you are conversing with is just that, a group with similar experiences and justifications, so you will get similar answers.

I am also smart enough not to believe the words of a few people, which is what brings this question to this forum. I am certain if I took this question to a forum of physiologist I would get completely different responses. I live by the adage - if you want to know the facts then go to the horse’s mouth, not the horse’s a$$.

Thank you for being open with your question but I find it strange that you leave it up to him to adjust your understanding of these issues just after you mentioned Free Will?????????? Please don't get the wrong impression from my reply, I admire you for seeking further information and keeping an open mind - I just hate labels......

That is Free Will…I can choose to believe that what is being said here applies to everyone in general (no one can force me to believe what is being said here applies, verbatim, to everyone) or I can be open-minded and understand that the experience may be slightly different for everyone. He has the right to add his ‘spin’ on my basic understanding, without expecting me to say, That cannot be right, that's not what they said in the forum.

I didn’t get the wrong impression from your reply…it’s simply your opinion.


Wickanne

OP Louise Morgan “….As for me, I would love to make love to my wife while dressed, but that isn't going to happen. She is the one who is hung up on what that would be called, not me….”
I would think there is a thread about this already. If someone knows where it is please send me a private message and let me know. I am not making this thread about that issue, but I will post an honest reply of what it was like for me. Keep in mind it is only the experience of one GG with one CD ;-)

[battybattybats]

If Kinsey, and a lot of latter studies are accurate then most people are somewhat BI with totally heterosexual people being about as common as totally homosexual people and totally non-sexual people.

Making the claims of most 'straight' CDs here, and much more importantly the claims of most 'straight' non CD-ing men, subject to question.

Interesting. I so often find that the more one learns about reality the more different it is to the way it appears or is portrayed.

[Sheila]

Heterosexuality is sexual or romantic attraction between opposite sexes, and is the most common sexual orientation among humans.
The adjective heterosexual is used for intimate relationships and/or sexual relations between male and female individuals, who may or may not identify themselves as straight. Heterosexuality, as an identifier, is usually contrasted with homosexuality and bisexuality.

[SIZE="3"]Homosexuality can refer to both sexual behavior or attraction between people of the same sex,[/SIZE] or to a sexual orientation. When describing the latter, it refers to enduring sexual and romantic attraction towards those of the same sex, but not necessarily to sexual behavior.[1] Homosexuality is contrasted with heterosexuality, bisexuality and asexuality.

so it would appear, regardless of the mindset when dressed ,sexual behavior or attraction betwen people of the same sex is construed as homesexuality, seems pretty clear to me but what would i know

[Wickanne GG]

[COLOR="Red"]
so it would appear, regardless of the mindset when dressed ,sexual behavior or attraction betwen people of the same sex is construed as homesexuality, seems pretty clear to me but what would i know

With all due respect, this thread isn't about what you or I know nor is it about sexual orientation. It's about what I do not know/understand...but I am leaning. What I am learning is...Regardless, of what I, a heterosexual female, perceives about the union between a MF, MM, FF…I don’t think there is anything to be gleaned by seeing a CDs perception of it as any less valid than my own. By learning about this, by understand this I have come to understand what went wrong in my relationship.


Wickanne

[Bonnie D]

Wichanne,

My gender therapist asked me in my first or second session if I would be interested in having a relationship with a heterosexual man. It threw me off kilter because I have been sayng that I want to have a relationship with a gay man who is interested in my dressing too. My reply was, "Yes, I would but I am physically male so how can that be?" He said that it doesn't matter how it can be, what is it I would want. I said, "Yes, I want to be with a heterosexual man."

I thought about the question for the next 2 weeks until my next appointment. I finally understood what he was asking, at least I think I do, and you seem to be asking the same thing. For me, not only when I am dressed but also when I am not and I am with a man I am mentally a woman. So in essence I am having heterosexual sex with the man even though it is physically gay sex. A bit confusing but in my mind it's not.

I have been calling myself a crossdresser for quite sometime only because it seemed to be an easier label to use. I am actually transsexual even though I will not be transitioning.

I hope this answers your question. I am open to further questions regarding this.

Bonnie

[cajun]

Not for me. I have experimented with a homosexual experience and it did nothing for me. Let me mention something first, I am a submissive male that loves to, and be forced to CD. I have been forced to perform homosexual acts while being submissive and it doesn't bother me. But I have found out that I am heterosexual and have been faithful to my wife for almost 10 years.

If while serving my Mistress I was told to it would not freak me out or make me think I was gay or bi. I am very comfortable in my manhood. I just like to wear lingerie, heels and corsets and such. No big deal.

jo

[Wickanne GG]

Wichanne,
I have been calling myself a crossdresser for quite sometime only because it seemed to be an easier label to use. I am actually transsexual even though I will not be transitioning.

I hope this answers your question. I am open to further questions regarding this.

Bonnie

Yes, I have been referred to as a "wich.." before.

You have hit it right on the answer I have been struggling to find, the answer that clears up a lot of this for me. I believe this is what has caused my confusion about CDing and if I am confused I am certain many more GGs are also.

I understood “CD” to be someone who wears clothes usually worn by somebody of the opposite sex

I understood “Transsexual” to be somebody who identifies himself or herself as a member of the opposite sex…GRS or not…which would fully explain to me why they would perceive an intimate encounter with man as being heterosexual.

What I am learning is that in-between someone who enjoys wearing clothing of the opposite sex for the pure pleasure of just wearing the clothing and someone who identifies as a member of the opposite sex, is a whole series of steps or degrees of CD.

When a “Transsexual” labels himself a “CD” it does cause a lot of confusion for GGs. I don’t know how one would get around the ‘degrees’ of it all. If I am interested in a CD, I really am only interested in a man who enjoys the female clothing part of it. I am not interested in someone who has sexual fantasies with a man and views it as a heterosexual experience because this, to me, is a “Transsexual”. You can put your own label [Mine is bi-sexual. Yes, labels are annoying to some but when used properly they make life a lot easier.] on a CD who wants to be with a woman, but also wants to be with a man and doesn’t view the encounter with a man as a heterosexual experience.

[I think am about to confuse myself some more here. Feel free to throw me a lifesaver. Speaking of lifesaver..
Two elderly ladies are sitting on the front porch, doing nothing.
One lady turns and asks, "Do you still get horny?"
The other replies, "Oh sure I do."
The first old lady asks, "What do you do about it?"
The second old lady replies, "I suck a lifesaver."
After a few moments, the first old lady asks, "Who drives you to the beach?"]

Having said what I did before I floated off topic, I am not against being with a CD who enjoys wearing female clothing and wants to explore situations where I am in a “dominant” role, but he has no interest in being with a man whether dressed or not dressed. How do I know where his head is? It is not as easy as saying communicate. I have read hundreds of posts about the difficulty of communication between a CD and a GG.

In my case, the communication with him was fairly good, but he failed to disclose some things to me early on. I know there were many reasons for his failure to communicate. I wouldn’t make excuses for him because we (him and I) both know what the main reasons were. All the grief and drama could have been avoid if he had been open and honest in the beginning...but then again, I would have missed out on all the positive aspects of who he is.

I have found my answers to my original thread question, but don’t let that stop you from continuing to enlighten me :-)

I thank all of you who stayed with the original question and helped me to understand. It helps in the healing process and reassures me that I wasn’t really going crazy afterall.


Wickanne

[KimberlyS]

Wickanne, such a great question but it did take me several reads to understand exactly what you were looking for. First one question for you. Out of those 11 CDs you seem to be basing this question on, how many of them would you say were in a good state of personal acceptance of who they were as a person and a CD/TG versus still in a state of trying to define who they are? And if they were more TG\TS instead of CD, I believe you are mixing different data sources.

I ask this because in my journey of personal acceptance, depending on the year, month, day or even minute you asked the question you may have gotten a different answer. And this seems very true with many of the other CD/TGs I have chatted with about this. So if a TG is in the middle of a personal acceptance journey I do not feel you can consider their responses as a final answer but a current answer in their searching.

For me personally it does not matter how I am dressed, I am always a guy. Some times I just look more feminine than other times. So if for some reason I would have a relationship with a guy while dressed, it would be for me homosexual.

I know for other CDers they feel they are a woman when dressed, and even for the TG/TS's they tend to always feel they are a woman. So I am sure for them it may be a different answer.

I believe that this answers the question you are asking. If not PM me and I will try again.

KimberlyS-CD
joe in a skirt

[karynspanties]

I for one have never claimed to be hetro. In fact I am very bi-sexual. But the only time I am with a man is while I am enfemme. I have no interest of being with a man while in male mode. Never have and never will.

[Sandygal]

Yes, that's the big problem. Being open and honest. To many times we have read posts where someone comes out to a SO and it bites them in the ass. Many of us love our wives more than life itself and hate the risk of telling them all that goes on in our minds. Thats why it is such a slow process to completly put everything on the table at once. We don't keep quiet to offend you, we keep quiet to hopefully not lose you.
To answer your actual question....If I'm dressed completly as a woman and I want to feel like a woman, would I consider myself homosexual if I wanted to be with a man? I don't know. I haven't been in that spot before. Personaly I would say no. But I would like to dress up and make love to my wife, would that make me or her a lesbian?
I really enjoy this thread, it makes me smile and think.
TaTa
Sandygal

[Wickanne GG]

Wickanne, such a great question but it did take me several reads to understand exactly what you were looking for. First one question for you. Out of those 11 CDs you seem to be basing this question on, how many of them would you say were in a good state of personal acceptance of who they were as a person and a CD/TG versus still in a state of trying to define who they are? And if they were more TG\TS instead of CD, I believe you are mixing different data sources.

Since I never came right out and asked anyone that question I cannot honestly answer you. Based on their comments and their behaviours I would say two.

I ask this because in my journey of personal acceptance, depending on the year, month, day or even minute you asked the question you may have gotten a different answer. And this seems very true with many of the other CD/TGs I have chatted with about this. So if a TG is in the middle of a personal acceptance journey I do not feel you can consider their responses as a final answer but a current answer in their searching.

That thought did cross my mind while I was typing my previous reply, but I didn't feel qualified to include it. Even I can feel differently about different things from day-to-day and very differently depending on the time of the month.

I think some of this may also be a bit of ego thing with me right now, but I reserve the right to feel differently about it tomorrow ;-)
When s/he started getting into areas that, to me, were clearly homosexual in nature it frightened the crap out of me...for various reason, including the thought of him becoming fully accepting of himself (his past and his fantasies) and dumping me for a man. He is still on a road of discovery and is already beyond what I would call, based on my previous post, a Regular CD. Now some of you may jump all over that "label" but it's the only way I know how to express it right now. I didn't know how to deal with it, enlight of the fact he is still looking for "admirers" and other "GGs".

For me personally it does not matter how I am dressed, I am always a guy. Some times I just look more feminine than other times. So if for some reason I would have a relationship with a guy while dressed, it would be for me homosexual.

I know for other CDers they feel they are a woman when dressed, and even for the TG/TS's they tend to always feel they are a woman. So I am sure for them it may be a different answer.

I don't have an issue with a man feeling like a woman when he is dressed. I actually found that quite appealing about him. I do not have an issue with past homosexual exploration either. I do have an issue with a CD who wants to continue with homosexual fantasy and/or real homosexual encounters. It's just not for me and that may also be because I am fiercely monogamous...emotionally and physically.

I believe that this answers the question you are asking. If not PM me and I will try again.

KimberlyS-CD
joe in a skirt

Wickanne

...But I would like to dress up and make love to my wife, would that make me or her a lesbian?
I really enjoy this thread, it makes me smile and think.
TaTa
Sandygal

I have had a couple of discussions about this in private. Seems no one can remember there being a thread about it.
It may be a good idea for you to start a thread..hint, hint. I would be interesting to see the responses because most of the people on this site could have an opinion about it, unlike this thread which is limited to MTF CD.

[Satrana]

With all due respect, this thread isn't about what you or I know nor is it about sexual orientation. It's about what I do not know/understand...but I am leaning. What I am learning is...Regardless, of what I, a heterosexual female, perceives about the union between a MF, MM, FF…I don’t think there is anything to be gleaned by seeing a CDs perception of it as any less valid than my own. By learning about this, by understand this I have come to understand what went wrong in my relationship.

Well I will take my hat off to you Wickanne, you are one of a very few who has been prepared to listen, understand and not pre-judge others.

And yes you are correct there is a huge spectrum of states inbetween simple crossdressing based solely on clothing to transgenderism and transexuality. Some people stay static on this continuum, but many will move along it over time. How far they travel is individualistic, no-one can tell, even the CD themselves. We spend a lifetime discovering what it all means, we never stop learning.

And the labels are very confusing especially more so when they are missing. A statement about transitioning from a TS who you assumed was a CD is going to give you all sorts of grief!

One mistake to avoid though is the assumption that because we have been this way usually since childhood, that this means we have had more than enough time to get it sorted out and used to the idea. Often that is not the case. Many CDs stumble from confusion to guilt to pain to disillusionment. A few days reading these forums will bring you as much enlightenment as many CDs have obtained over a lifetime of rumbling around in the darkness of the closet. Internet forums like this are usually the first opportunity CDs have to learn about themselves. It is quite likely your partner did not divulge certain information because he was unsure what it all meant himself.

A classic example is when a CD says "I want to be a woman". Actually they don't, but they are unable to convey what they really feel so resort to these simple statements which are misleading.

[Annaliese]

My question is, does being emfemme create the illusion of a heterosexual experience for you? Does being dressed like a female set your mind in a mode/state where you believe that sex with another male is a heterosexual experience? I am not certain which of those questions would be clearer for your understanding of what I am trying to ask.

Yes to your question.

You need to only look at the post "Have you ever been with a man". Over 11000 have look at this post and all most 200 have answered it.

So yes.

[Wickanne GG]

...You need to only look at the post "Have you ever been with a man". Over 11000 have look at this post and all most 200 have answered it.

So yes.

I did read the thread when it was in it's infancy. I didn't find what I was looking for so I started this thread and have been busy with it since. The good news is...I found some answers in this thread


Wickanne

[goofus]

Of the eleven CDs I have met not one was truly heterosexual in the traditional sense.

I think that says a lot. If you want someone that's 'heterosexual in the traditional sense' it's probably best not to date a CD...

[Wickanne GG]

I think that says a lot. If you want someone that's 'heterosexual in the traditional sense' it's probably best not to date a CD...

When I typed that, let's just say I was a very confused and unsure how to get across what I was trying to figure out. Sixty replies late...I am a lot less confused.

I have had many conversations over the past few days and there are men who do enjoy CD and have no desires to be with men in fantasy or real life. I don't know if YOU would still class them as a CD or not, but that's the label they use.


Wickanne

[Susan Anne]

That actually opens up something I never thought about before. I am sure there must be a thread about it on the site already, but I'll go for the quick answer.

I assumed that when a man is making love to a woman while he is enfemme he would feel very 'male'. So I'll flip my question for you. Do you think you would feel femme or masculine in that situation? If you felt femme, would you see it as a lesbian or a heterosexual encounter?


Wickanne

I feel/act/talk/percieve like a woman when en femme. This would include typical female activities such as shopping, chatting, home decor and etc. but could also include sports or other so-called "man" stuff. However these all would be experienced by me from a female outlook and point of view. I am not attracted to men sexually and desire only women. Therefore in making love to a woman en femme I see it for myself as a lesbian experience since en femme I identify as lesbian. The lovemaking would take on a female to female flavor.