caught on first day of job

[noname]

So I finnally found a job and it's my first day. Things could have gone better but for a first day they went fairly well. Well being as I have about zero guy jeans I decided I better pick some up. After shopping for hours I decided to try target before going home. Though I might find some generic relaxed fit girls jeans. So I waltz on in and I'm talking down the main isle and who I do spy? But a guy from work, but wait he spys me! I'm wearing my mens capri and messenger bag along with my sandals not bright green toenail polish. Let's say did a real bad job of being inconspicous. He keep staring, then trying to stare out of the corner of his eyes. The walk past him seemed forever. But as I got closer he stepped into the bras and was trying to spy on me though the bras. Yeah his wife was shopping for a bra, but jeez buddy, try not to be obvious. I hope this doesn't ruin the one job I've gotten in the last year and half that will save my career. I normally wouldn't be worried, but it would at least be nice to have proven how good my work is. Guess I'll find out what happens. You know what though, it's really upsetting, I shouldn't have to worry at all about this, especially being after work. This place is very off the record kind. After submitting my resume I was given a one piece sheet of paper to fill out, in addition to W-2 forms. You get the idea, they do what they want here. Would appreciate any positive spin.

[GACountrygal]

keep on truckin, and keep yer head up! You've done nothing but be yourself!
Nic

[noname]

keep on truckin, and keep yer head up! You've done nothing but be yourself!
Nic

Thanks GACountrygal. I also forget I had mascara on and makeupforever star powder. Dunno how visible that that stuff is 5-7 feet away. I so hope this doesn't affect work. Of course at the same time I don't work for the company 24/7 and it wouldn't be right not to be myself when I'm off work, that is asking too much.

Though I wonder, can an employer dicate off the clock. Could they could say that working on projects and meeting with clients, it is important to maintane an appearace that is acceptable to the general society?

[GACountrygal]

Thanks GACountrygal. I also forget I had mascara on and makeupforever star powder. Dunno how visible that that stuff is 5-7 feet away. I so hope this doesn't affect work. Of course at the same time I don't work for the company 24/7 and it wouldn't be right not to be myself when I'm off work, that is asking too much.

Though I wonder, can an employer dicate off the clock. Could they could say that working on projects and meeting with clients, it is important to maintane an appearace that is acceptable to the general society?

You're welcome!

I dont think they can dictate what you do outside of work as long as you're not boozing around making a fool of yourself on TV or landing in jail. As long as you are professional in demeanor and appereance at work then they should be satisfied.

I guess one thing to do, that might help, would be to tone things down for a week or two just to keep from shocking folks, and might help you feel more comfortable easing into this new situation?

[Sheri 4242]

I dont think they can dictate what you do outside of work as long as you're not boozing around making a fool of yourself on TV or landing in jail.

Much of this depends on what state you live in.

Where GACountrygalGG and I live (Georgia, obviously) sans a contract to the contrary, employers can get rid of you without much of a, if any, reason. (Georgia is one of many states where employment is "at will" -- a legal principle that is on the employer's side.) Oh, you still have EEOC protections, but that is a complex process - and crossdressiers don't have standing under these -- yet. Sometimes legal protections depend on how many employees the company has! Even though you didn't (apparently, based on what you said) sign a contract, there should be an established employment handbook that must be made available to you on request (ask Wal-Mart about withholding such from certain classes of employees!). At all businesses, there is usually a "probationary period" whereby either party (employer or employee) can say "this isn't working" and terminate the relationship. This is usually 3 months -- and someone terminated during such period doesn't even have to put the job on their resume. Some employmnt laws are basically implied -- IOW, things like they will pay you at a certain rate on a certain day -- and you acknowledge that you are part of the "face of the company" to the public. This latter point can be problematic depending on the jurisdiction, in re how far it reaches into the employee's personal life. Not trying to be a downer here, just give you a snapshot of all sides of the employee-employer relationship issue.

I guess one thing to do, that might help, would be to tone things down for a week or two just to keep from shocking folks, and might help you feel more comfortable easing into this new situation?

GACountrygalGG is absolutely right. Life has got to be a balance. When starting any new job, regardless of whether you are a crossdresser or not, this is a time to put your best foot forward!!! This is a time to affirm to your employer that they have made a good decision in hiring you -- that you are going to be productive and represent them in an excellent manner. The latter part of that last sentence can cause headaches, b/c just how far into your personal life should that reasonably extend?!!? Yes, you have rights -- but put the shoe on the other foot: so does the company!!! When starting a new job, IMHO, that is the time to do your best work and be on your best behavior. One of my daughters has yet to learn that NOBODY is indespensable!!! She keeps thinking she is -- and keeps bouncing from job to job based on "attitude priblems" alone. So, swallow your civil liberties and rights, and show them you are valuable and a team player -- then, when the newness wears off, go back to the life you want to live!!!

[noname]

Yeah, just doubted I run into anyone at target at 9:30 at night.

I hate to lie, but whats a good excuse should it come up? I need something believeable.

Thing is, I have no idea if this guy is some idiot blabber mouth. Though I'd bet so, trying to spy on me, geez, what a loser.

Of course I could confront him, "hey I saw you at target last night" "uhhh yeah" "say, what were you doing in the bra section?"

[DanaJ]

If you knew it was a guy from work, and you didn't want to be spotted, why did you walk past him? You should have walked a different way.

Anyway, if you are not concerned about bending the truth, just deny it - put a look of bewilderment on your face and say "Target? Last night? Wasn't me dude."

Edit: I do not think you should hide or be ashamed or embarrassed at who you are, and I do not advocate trying to hide - I only asked because the thread starter sounded like he was worried about the encounter.

[Rosaliy Lynne]

keep on truckin, and keep yer head up! You've done nothing but be yourself!
Nic

Right on and normally true too. But not always as others have mentioned.

Yeah, just doubted I run into anyone at target at 9:30 at night.

I hate to lie, but whats a good excuse should it come up? I need something believeable.

Thing is, I have no idea if this guy is some idiot blabber mouth. Though I'd bet so, trying to spy on me, geez, what a loser.

Of course I could confront him, "hey I saw you at target last night" "uhhh yeah" "say, what were you doing in the bra section?"

Need something believeable? Try the truth. Your fellow employee was behaving a lot worse by obviously spying on you. So you cross dress and wear makeup on your own time. Big deal. (not).

If you knew it was a guy from work, and you didn't want to be spotted, why did you walk past him? You should have walked a different way.

Anyway, if you are not concerned about bending the truth, just deny it - put a look of bewilderment on your face and say "Targer? Last night? Wasn't me dude."

I can understand walking past him. Any other behavior would have been the same as yelling out loud and clear - I AM DOING SOMETHING WRONG!! That would have just put fuel on the fire. You dampen the affect by behaving as if everything is right on normal - which it is as it was.

[Rosaliy Lynne]

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." -George Washington

think a lot alike which is one reason I joined NRA as a life member after I settled my late father's estate.

[Karren H]

If you see him at work today say loudly.... "Was that you at Target looking at Bra's last night?".

That should headoff any further conversation about your life style... Get everyone talking about his bra fetish!!!

Karren

[SANDRA MICHELLE]

It all depends on what kind of job it is you are doing and does the company have a policy about putting forth a positive appearance while on your own time. If you were not doing anything wrong, and crossdressing is not anything wrong then you should have no worries. I would not confront the guy unless you start hearing rumors that he is talking about you behind your back to co-workers. If he does you should confront him with it and let him no that you will not tolerate any malicious rumors and will bring his actions up to your supervisors. If you are open and honest with your boss about this and he fires you I would guess that you would have a legal action against them, in any state there are laws that protect your rights even if you are not aware of them the threat of legal action will in most cases allow you to keep youir job without harrassment. Of course you would have to be willing to proceed with the action if they forced your hand and I don't know your personal situation regarding how open you are with the crossdressing. Good luck!

[noname]

Crossdress? I was wearing all guy clothes. Of course I don't consider painted toes and mascara crossdressing. Others may perhaps.

Also there is no way he could have seen the mascara from the initial distance he spotted me. I'm pretty sure it was the neon green toes.

As far as policy, this place has few office workers and more than a few worker bees. So there is no dress code at work, just keep yourself looking decent.

It could be ok as one guy there goes by a female name and wears two rainbow braclets. I'm not certain but odds are he's gay.

I think I was over panicing a bit. Perhaps I'll have to pull back a bit. At least around town. This business is small, but the job has tremendous opportunity for future job as I'll meet tons of people. I can't say for certain, but I can see a business wanting their employees to appear "normal".

Also, there is "firing" here. There would just conviently be no contracts for me work on.

[DianaGomez]

Was that you at Target looking at Bra's last night

LOL! Sounds good! Attack is the best form of defense!

[Jamie001]

The company that you work for has no right to control what you do on your own time. It is none of their business. What about guys that wear earrings? It is the same thing.

Crossdress? I was wearing all guy clothes. Of course I don't consider painted toes and mascara crossdressing. Others may perhaps.

Also there is no way he could have seen the mascara from the initial distance he spotted me. I'm pretty sure it was the neon green toes.

As far as policy, this place has few office workers and more than a few worker bees. So there is no dress code at work, just keep yourself looking decent.

It could be ok as one guy there goes by a female name and wears two rainbow braclets. I'm not certain but odds are he's gay.

I think I was over panicing a bit. Perhaps I'll have to pull back a bit. At least around town. This business is small, but the job has tremendous opportunity for future job as I'll meet tons of people. I can't say for certain, but I can see a business wanting their employees to appear "normal".

Also, there is "firing" here. There would just conviently be no contracts for me work on.

[angelfire]

The company that you work for has no right to control what you do on your own time. It is none of their business. What about guys that wear earrings? It is the same thing.

This is not true. I have gone into interviews where they said upfront, no piercings, if you have them, remove them. This was shortly after I removed my eyebrow ring because it was growing out, but still, the guy obviously said "We need to look professional, so its good you have no facial piercings." So if they can say anything based on facial piercings, I don't see how earrings are any different.

A lot of employers just won't hire you if you have visible tattoos either.

As for being fired over it, if he chooses not to tell anyone, you'll be fine. If he does, unless he goes and tells your boss, and the boss has a problem with it, you should be fine. BUT, employers do typically have a 3 month probation period where they can fire you for no reason.

[KandisTX]

They would more than likely request that you not have any visible tattoos or body piercings during business hours. Many employers could care less about what you do after hours, however I have heard of some that are so adimant about only hiring non-smokers that if you are caught smoking after hours away from the business they terminate employment.

Many states (Texas is) are "Right To Work" states. That means that employment is "At Will" (Yours or the companies). You can leave whenever for whatever reason, and they can fire you whenever and for whatever reason. A job is not a guarantee, unless you are working in a union industry that is, especially in places like Texas.

Kandis

[Jamie001]

Angelfire,

I think that you may have misinterpreted what I was saying:

When you are on "company time" they can dictate appearance standards. I completely agree with that as being a "fact". On the other hand, when you are not on "company time" they do not have any control over your personal appearance provided that you are not arrested for public nudity or something that is illegal. That is the point that I was trying to make.

Jamie

This is not true. I have gone into interviews where they said upfront, no piercings, if you have them, remove them. This was shortly after I removed my eyebrow ring because it was growing out, but still, the guy obviously said "We need to look professional, so its good you have no facial piercings." So if they can say anything based on facial piercings, I don't see how earrings are any different.

A lot of employers just won't hire you if you have visible tattoos either.

As for being fired over it, if he chooses not to tell anyone, you'll be fine. If he does, unless he goes and tells your boss, and the boss has a problem with it, you should be fine. BUT, employers do typically have a 3 month probation period where they can fire you for no reason.

[Jamie001]

How could the boss have a problem with it? He was not on company time. He was at the local target store and not working for his employer at that time. All that matters is his appearance at work. His appearance off company time is his own business.

As for being fired over it, if he chooses not to tell anyone, you'll be fine. If he does, unless he goes and tells your boss, and the boss has a problem with it, you should be fine. BUT, employers do typically have a 3 month probation period where they can fire you for no reason

[Sheri 4242]

The company that you work for has no right to control what you do on your own time. It is none of their business. What about guys that wear earrings? It is the same thing.

This is not true. I have gone into interviews where they said upfront, no piercings, if you have them, remove them. This was shortly after I removed my eyebrow ring because it was growing out, but still, the guy obviously said "We need to look professional, so its good you have no facial piercings." So if they can say anything based on facial piercings, I don't see how earrings are any different.

A lot of employers just won't hire you if you have visible tattoos either.

The corporate world does have some rights. Part of their rights can affect your off-clock activities, depending on where you live and the particulars of the situation . . . so much so that the case law is absolutely "lop-sided." This has been upheld time-and-again. Accepting a position is a voluntary thing -- and most state legislatures, top-heavy with lawyers with ties to big business -- have ensured this.

As for being fired over it, if he chooses not to tell anyone, you'll be fine. If he does, unless he goes and tells your boss, and the boss has a problem with it, you should be fine. BUT, employers do typically have a 3 month probation period where they can fire you for no reason.

If you'll look back at my earlier post, and more particularly at the "probationary period" of employment, I will say once again, this is a time for prudence and common sense -- especially if you like the job and think you might want to keep it. Maybe take the nail polish off for the short-run -- then, if the topic gets brought up, you were in male clothing and have no idea what he's talking about, in re the nail polish. Your line is, "Gee, I want to rep this company professionally; I want to be considered an asset!!!" Unless you are determined to make a statement, show them you are interested in what they are interested in -- a well-represented company to which you want to be a productive part of!!!

If you are open and honest with your boss about this and he fires you I would guess that you would have a legal action against them, in any state there are laws that protect your rights even if you are not aware of them the threat of legal action will in most cases allow you to keep youir job without harrassment. Of course you would have to be willing to proceed with the action if they forced your hand . . .

With all due respect, your "guess" is wrong. Crossdressing isn't a protected class under EEOC rules. AND, most state laws are "at will," which is on the side of the employer. And, even given a liberal interpretation of a "probationary period" clause or rule, trust me, if they want you gone, that's what is going to happen and crossdressing will never even be mentioned!

[dakota_ann69]

Well here is my , I think that you will be fine. I really think based on his behavior it sounds to me like he may have been embarrased to have you see him in the bra section. Like Karren said if anything happens ask him about his bra fetish. I doubt very much that anything will be said at all.

[Jamie001]

I completely disagree with this approach and believe that this is bad advice!!

There is no need to take the nail polish off as long as it is not visible when you are at work. For God's sake, don't give the company that you work-for the power to control your appearance when you are not at work. Unless the company that you work for owns the Target store were you were shopping, they have not power over your personal appearance when you are not on the clock at work. Don't lie about the nail polish and say "you have no idea what he is talking about". It is none of their business and doesn't affect your performance on the job. Lying can be construed to affect your performance on the job and could be grounds for dismissal if the company thinks that you are not honest. Look what happened with President Clinton and Monica! He should not have lied and you should not lie either!! After all, you didn't do anything wrong. You are making a mountain out of a mole hole...

It doesn't even matter if you are cross-dressed when you are not at work. Remember that the company that you work for does not control your personal life!!

We need to be proud of ourselves and that includes what we wear and the way that we dress. We should not ever give anyone power over our appearance when we are not at work. On the other side of the coin, when you are at work always strictly adhere to their dress code. The company that you work for is paying for your time and you must comply with their rules.

But PLEASE don't ever let the company that you work for have power over your appearance when you are not at work!! That is going too far. We don't have to hide in the closet especially in a world where US senators solicit prostitutes, wear diapers, and presidential candidates are admitted crossdressers. Don't cower in the closet on your personal time. When you are not at work, your personal life is your business and not anyone else's. Wear what you want to wear on your personal time and enjoy.

The corporate world does have some rights. Part of their rights can affect your off-clock activities, depending on where you live and the particulars of the situation . . . so much so that the case law is absolutely "lop-sided." This has been upheld time-and-again. Accepting a position is a voluntary thing -- and most state legislatures, top-heavy with lawyers with ties to big business -- have ensured this.



If you'll look back at my earlier post, and more particularly at the "probationary period" of employment, I will say once again, this is a time for prudence and common sense -- especially if you like the job and think you might want to keep it. Maybe take the nail polish off for the short-run -- then, if the topic gets brought up, you were in male clothing and have no idea what he's talking about, in re the nail polish. Your line is, "Gee, I want to rep this company professionally; I want to be considered an asset!!!" Unless you are determined to make a statement, show them you are interested in what they are interested in -- a well-represented company to which you want to be a productive part of!!!



With all due respect, your "guess" is wrong. Crossdressing isn't a protected class under EEOC rules. AND, most state laws are "at will," which is on the side of the employer. And, even given a liberal interpretation of a "probationary period" clause or rule, trust me, if they want you gone, that's what is going to happen and crossdressing will never even be mentioned!

[noname]

Been working the guy all day. He's acted normally. Things will probably be fine. We'll see how things go. As far as 90 day probation, it's contract work. I'll be out of owrk when the contract is up, unless they have another contract for me work ok.

[SatinDoll00]

You're welcome!

I dont think they can dictate what you do outside of work as long as you're not boozing around making a fool of yourself

Oh crap...

Morgan

[sterling12]

Your latest reply may indicate that you simply weren't recognized. I mean you were only at the company for one day, you probably look a bit different with some makeup on, and he may have just been curious about what he was seeing.

My guess is that he probably "clocked" you. But, he hasn't put your face and the word employee together. Or, since he's not "positive," he's not going to make any waves. Doesn't mean that bad things can't happen, but it appears that things just might blow over.

Don't do anything "overt," which might remind him of the incident, and then further remind him that your face and That CD's Face he saw, might just match up. I would spend a lot of time around there acting "really butch."

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Jamie001]

Again, I have to respectfully disagree with this advice. Remember that she hasn't done anything wrong! That is the point that you are completely missing. She was not at work and therefore was on her own time. This means that she doesn't have to conform to the company's dress code standards when not at work. Why doesn't everyone understand this?

There is no reason to "act butch" if you are not really butch to begin with. Just be yourself and abide by the dress code when you are at work. When you are not at work, you can wear whatever you want to wear. It is that simple.

The advice that a lot of folks are giving is just wrong.

I believe that one GG replied to this thread with the correct advice that the company doesn't have any control over your appearance when you are not on company time. That is all that there is to it. Don't let the company that you work for dictate your appearance when you are not at work.

Your latest reply may indicate that you simply weren't recognized. I mean you were only at the company for one day, you probably look a bit different with some makeup on, and he may have just been curious about what he was seeing.

My guess is that he probably "clocked" you. But, he hasn't put your face and the word employee together. Or, since he's not "positive," he's not going to make any waves. Doesn't mean that bad things can't happen, but it appears that things just might blow over.

Don't do anything "overt," which might remind him of the incident, and then further remind him that your face and That CD's Face he saw, might just match up. I would spend a lot of time around there acting "really butch."

Peace and Love, Joanie