is it me or what?

[Kieron Andrew]

Thank you so much......... I appreciate you understanding my point.. as SOMEONE WITH MANNERS WOULD.......... eh hem....

Anyway......

I do believe you said in your posts.... you said packing...... ok laugh here... do you mean carrying a gun? If I don't laugh at me, my life would be miserable - so feel free to laugh at me.

I am assuming that I have upset others besides Julie.. so if you don't mind Kieron .. I will PM you..

Thanks,
Kris

Start another thread Kris away from this one but no not a gun its the male equivalent to the breast forms only ahem! down the pants...now go make a new thread to ask the rest

[Julie York]

Her 'mistaken' assumptions are from watching how you interact with others. New or not, you show someone your bitch face enough, and they'll start to think it's the only one you have.

I agree. Show someone how whiny and petty someone can be about whether a post open with hey guys or hey ladies, ...they might start to think ALL FtM are like that.

Anyway this is fun but I have to work tomorrow.

Catch you later.

[Tamara Croft]

I'm sorry, please just go passed this post, because it is directed at Julie, not anyone else and I'm sorry for the following outburst, but it is going to be said!!!!

I really get the sense that you have lost touch with what is going on on this forum Tamara. You've been gadding about so much in the FtM pirate ship you can't see what's right in front of your nose. And naturally you can't see what's being said behind the scenes. You can't see what's being said on Yahoo.

LOL... really, get over yourself... I couldn't care less what is being said about me on yahoo or anyone else, as long as this forum is running well, then I'm doing my job and as the forum is overwhelmed with daily posts, then the only problem is you isn't it.

I really get the sense that the FtM have no idea how much they have put public understanding backwards by all the bad feeling and bitching and seperation they are so determined to create.

What do you care? I mean really, when do you ever show any support to the guys, other than bitching and moaning about changes that literally don't affect you, because the only time you ever post is in the lounge or to piss someone off, which of late, is all you ever do isn't it?

When someone feels the NEED to ask...... to be so nervous of posting on the Transman forum that they have to ASK if they CAN...they feel so nervous that they NEED to ask if it is alright...then don't you think something has seriously ****ed up?

Yeah, you're seriously ******* up... People are nervous when they are new, don't you remember being new? scared to ask something? no?? probably not, you always did have such a big mouth didn't you.

Or can't you see that?

No, just can see you being you as per usual...

Have another rum and carry on eh? You're having a good time with your buddies, that's all that counts. **** 'em.

What's the matter? are you jealous? seems so doesn't it... Maybe I hang around with the guys more, because they simply have a whole lot more respect for others... and yeah, I'm having a great time, pardon me!!!!

I have absolutely nothing against any FtM other than their whining about how little they are understood, whilst making a determined effort to keep it that way.

Whining? wow, you're one to talk, whinging about this, whinging about that... segregation... jesus efffin christ.... get the over it... if you can't get over it, then that's your bloody problem isn't it!!!!

Now you can say what the hell you like to me, people can talk about me, I don't really give a shit.... but I'm sick of this shit on the forum, it's time people started to flaming grow the hell up!!!!!

[Kris]

None taken. Your mistaken assumptions about my character are based on a lack of knowledge because you are relatively new.

I don't believe I was every in the vicinty of your back so relax.

None taken? Did you misconstrue my thoughts and opinions as a way to make sure that you are not offended? Please.. reread what I wrote. I SO do not mind if I offended you. As you don't seem to mind if you offend others, I actually am a bit miffed that you aren't offended, as I didn't get the desired result that I intended on getting.

LMAO at my mistaken assumptions. I have read posts here for about a month and I have yet to see one place where you have been considerate towards another human. I believe my assumptions are right on. This is who you have shown the entire time I have been here.

" I don't believe I was every in the vicinty of your back so relax"

What the heck does this mean? Every in the vicinity of my back? EVERY .. VICINTY?

People in glass houses need to be careful about throwing stones.

[brylram]

I agree. Show someone how whiny and petty someone can be about whether a post open with hey guys or hey ladies, ...they might start to think ALL FtM are like that.

Oh yes, cause there's no problem at all when a certain sort of action causes some to feel discluded... so obviously we were whining for the hell of it... probably just to be annoying and throw your precious perfect forum out of whack, right?

And heaven forbid you might have to acknowledge that most of the changes made have been positive... in fact, rather than taking everyone away from each other, I think it's left everyone just as close together (everything is STILL all right next together for mtf's and ftm's)... but now people can SEE everything there is, right up front. So contrary to your whining about segregation, I think it's made it more obvious that there's a range of people here, and as a result will probably promote awareness and participation in the long run.

What you're whining about isn't segregation, it's visibility... you don't seem to be able to handle anything other than everyone shoved together in a big indistinguishable (and frankly not optimally organized) blob.

[GypsyKaren]

This is not a "Let's Argue" thread, so take some of this to PM's, would you please?

Karen Starlene

[mistunderstood]

Wow I leave and it blows up in here.

[privateperks]

Karen, i understand that this isn't a free for all. But at the same time, this is *not* a private issue. We've been trying for the last few weeks really strenuously, and well before that - to keep this kind of insensitive posting out of this forum. This is a SERIOUS let down when it comes as it does on the cusp of an attemp on our part to try and be more included here at crossdressers and neither to isolate ourselves nor allow others to isolate us by their remarks.

It is really offensive. I somehow doubt it would be overlooked if I went into the girls section and told them how easy they must have it since they can raid their wife's drawers to get underwear and clothes instead of buying them and how easy it must be to hide a penis as opposed to breasts, and that at least they can take hormones if they want to grow some while no amount of chemical magic will help us out in the penis department . No, I suspect that if I said that kind of thing, I'd get kicked out of here - *and rightfully so.* Or to parody another common remark around here 'oh, you're such a good looking guy, why do you want to grow a pair of horrid boobies for?' Also really insulting, but something that's appearently to be tolerated when its flung at us - while standing up for ourselves draws remarks that we're somehow bullying the board, when all that we ask is people show us a little respect too, as we do by adressing people properly and not continually whining about how hard we have it compared to every other group of people on the planet and thereby trivializing their own problems.

Now, to top it off, we get someone who asks respectfully if she can ask us questions - everyone here is totally cool with that - only to get jumped on by the board harpy who has shown a distinct antagonism towards ftms - not to mention towards everyone else.

Are you saying that both these continually insulting posts, which - and let's face it - would not be tolerated from some random redneck peckerwood biggot randomly coming on here - and the continual antagonism of one specific poster - are going to be tolerated?

I get it if ya'll are into freedom of expression and letting everybody have their say and lets all try to understand that Julie occassionaly feels the need to act like a total cow, etc etc let's stand in a circle holding hands to get in touch with our inner whatever, but this kind of thing is going to drive ftm's off this board if it is tolerated. I am actually on the verge of going myself since it looks that we have very few supporters on the staff here and that as far as ftm's are concerned, it's open season here at cross dressers.

This is not an isolated case, and while on one side the problem is with a specific poster - that is *not* all that it is. I'm not pissed at you specifically btw, just at the general apathy shown in the ongoing toleration of this bull shit.

:mad: :mad:

Jaysus, where is the "bottle breaking ready for a bar fight" icon where you need one?

[GypsyKaren]

Perks, I truly understand how you feel, and it's fine to argue a point in a constructive manner, but personal bickering will not be tolerated, I don't care what forum it's in. We have a PM system, use it.

One other thing, ordinarily I would have deleted some of the posts here, but I give you guys a greater latitude because to me you've earned it (I'm not saying that's the problem here, it's others), that's why I politely asked for peace

Karen Starlene

[Kieron Andrew]

I hope the guys here realise some of us want to understand more.

We sure do Lizzie, there are some girls here that have really taken the time to get to know us, and we welcome those with open arms, the ones that dont or are ignorant is definitely in the minority

[brylram]

May I add my bit?

The very first post demonstrated ignorance (not in a perjoritive way) and actually was "useful" in that it demonstrated what many do ..
Stereotype / assume as a result of not taking the trouble form an opinion from informed facts / observations.

It needed challenging. Of course, if I was repeatedly misrepresented I would give an emotional response because I would be fed up from the repeat nature of avoidable ignorance.

I have learnt a lot from this thread - I never realised how much cr+p my transmasculine brothers had to endure. Thank you for enlightening me and from your responses I can feel how much you are hurt by such things.
And as a "newbie" here, it was "enlightening" to see how someone can divert a thread by making personal attacks rather than debating the issue.

I hope this doesn't sound patronising as I dont mean it to be ... but I will be more aware of transmasculine issues as a result of coming here and I hope to make some contacts and share all types of exchanges.

To finish, I so understand the emotional charge resulting from the feeling of being (yet again) attacked/insulted/misrepresented. I hope the guys here realise some of us want to understand more.

Lizzie.

PS
and .. Kris ... I have noticed how repectful and careful you are in your posts. It is a quality some of us could do well to imitate. L

THIS is exactly the kind of response we've been hoping for all along... just a "hey, I can see things are a little less than ok, and/or I want to pay more attention to what's going on with you guys". I appreciate this a huge amount Lizzie, I really do. I realize very much that there are a good lot of you who would like to understand... unfortunately it's the one's who are being negative and rude that are the most vocal. I hope that our responses to those who are offending us are not being taken as general ill-will towards mtf's, we love those of you that are kind to us and give us a little understanding, we just can't tolerate those who do the opposite.

And Kris, you too have been a great relief to have in this thread. So I'd like to thank you as well... and to extend thanks to every member, no matter their label, who has supported us. To you all.

[mistunderstood]

I would like to ask respectfully if we can just lock this thread. I feel like all it will do is keep the fight going. Thank you all the girls who are tring to see what we see every day. Thank you Kriss GG for being respectfull and asking questions.
I do not like being steped on but I am also tired of fighting.

[Kieron Andrew]

and to extend thanks to every member, no matter their label, who has supported us. To you all.

hear hear! i second that

[Marcie Sexton]

Nature of the beast my dear...we just aren't meant to look all girlie girl with out some major help...

...but with that said you don't live in this area...even the gay/lesbian community have a hard time being accepted...can you think what we m2f and f2m deal with here...perhaps that is the reason I have yet to meet any one of either gender that my wife and I can socially meet...

[Kris]

Lizzie.

PS
and .. Kris ... I have noticed how repectful and careful you are in your posts. It is a quality some of us could do well to imitate. L

Lizzie + Et al ~

I sincerely apologize for letting my reactions get the better of me on this and ANY post that I get involved in. I feel absolutely like a heal for making the mistake of being pulled into a temper tantrum that brought me down low enough to respond with emotion rather than wisdom.

I am glad that you notice how respectful that I try to be. I do not and will not ever try to offend anyone - and am ashamed of the fact that I was brought to that today. Please forgive me. I did not mean to "hy-jack" this thread.. however it seems that I managed to accomplish that unintentionally.

Please accept my deepest apologies .. everyone. I was disrespectful of your site, and your time of reading.

Kris

[CaptLex]

I feel absolutely like a heal for making the mistake of being pulled into a temper tantrum that brought me down low enough to respond with emotion rather than wisdom.

You have nothing to apologize for, Kris. And throwing a temper tantrum is something that happens to all of us sooner or later here, so I'd say that means you're not a newbie anymore.

[brylram]

Please accept my deepest apologies .. everyone. I was disrespectful of your site, and your time of reading.

I don't feel you were disrespectful at all... except to Julie... but she seems to go around looking specifically for that. So no worries on my end, I think you were great, and even if emotion was behind your responses, they seemed reasonable to me and I didn't get the impression you were being impulsive at all.

[Kris]

I don't feel you were disrespectful at all... except to Julie... but she seems to go around looking specifically for that. So no worries on my end, I think you were great, and even if emotion was behind your responses, they seemed reasonable to me and I didn't get the impression you were being impulsive at all.

Awe man, you're gonna make me cry... I was disrespectful of your space to throw my tantrum. I WAS wrong. I have higher expectations of myself and I wish those around me hold me to those higher expectations as well.

Now enough with this... lets all just be friends ... I am not above having a huge slumber party.. wanna come?

Kris

[Amy]

I should probably just let this thread die and not add anything to a smuldering fire but I did have some thing to say. I've enjoyed the time I've spent on the guys side of the fence. I had a question a little while ago and yes, I did ask permission before I posted. Not because I feared the guys would be offended by being asked a question but out of respect. You don't just barge into someones house or dare I say get on a ship before asking, "permission to come aboad." I rember back hen there weren't half the number of f2ms that are heree now and every tiime they tried to post some thing there threads would become inandated with m2f comments about panties and what have you. I feel when I post in this forum I post as a guest and should respect that.
My question was answered specifically and respectfully and I learned a lot about the f2m on this forum. Thank you Gentlemen for your kind responces.

[JamesAlan]

Tempers can run high when you are barraded with misunderstandings and sometimes with direct insults. I had to leave the thread and come back when I cooled off to make a response. My girlfriend and I have had discussions on what each of us will have to go through. Neither of us have it easy and understand that. Being able to pass when you have feminine features is hard, you get read as a butch lesbian instead of a guy. One of the struggles of what we go through. But no one that travels this path will have it completely easy (unless you are a complete recluse and inherited a fortune lol). Glad to see the thread calmed down a bit while I was calming down. Hugs to the girls that want to understand. I'm new to discovering my own transexuality. I haven't seen what the guys have gone through before I came along. I just got a little taste of it.

[Kieron Andrew]

I am not above having a huge slumber party.. wanna come?

YAY! a slumber party!!! woohooo! *Kieron goes to hunt for his best clean PJs and sleeping bag*

Thank you Gentlemen for your kind responces.

YVW! anytime Amy

[Tamara Croft]

YAY! a slumber party!!! woohooo! *Kieron goes to hunt for his best clean PJs and sleeping bag*

You're such a goof.... your words

[Kieron Andrew]

You're such a goof.... your words

but such a wuvable one *your words*

[Tamara Croft]

but such a wuvable one *your words*

Gawd... the cheek... (my hand)

[GypsyKaren]

Oh geez, I think I preferred the fighting...

Karen Starlene