Is it deception..

[Wren]

Punch me if I'm wrong..

But a thread on the MtF section brought this to my attention..

If somebody meets you while you are in non at birth gender form and you don't tell them, that you're a transperson etc. Is it really deception or lies?*

Honestly I've run into a few situations where someone confronts people I love about them 'lying about their gender' and I always get really upset by this. Isn't the whole point of being a transman to be accepted as a male. As a "real-solid-100%-I feel like a man", male?

So if that makes sense to anyone...how do you understand it..

*(this was hard to phrase in politcal correctness...and i'm beyond tired right now..)

[ZenFrost]

If you're post transition or just living as your true gender, the average Joe doesn't need to know. You can be putting your life in danger in more ways than one by being 'out' as a transexual so I don't think it's deceptive to not tell people. If you are a man on the inside, it's not a lie to tell someone you're male. And if you become a man on the outside as well (surgically or not) you're still not lying when you say you're male. However, if an SO is involved, I think this qualifies as something he/she needs to know. But with anyone else, you have a right to be who you are and not taint their view of you by being more than you appear to be on the outside.

If you think that it is deceptive, the whole point of passing becomes moot. We want to be accepted as who we are, not what we were born as. What's under my clothes is no one's business but my own.

[bi_weird]

Average Joe, no it's not a problem not to tell them. Personally, I feel if you're in a relationship you ought to out yourself rather early, and long term friends ought to know, but that's completely up to each individual waht they feel is alright. But yeah I see no need to walk down the street with a sign saying "dude I'm trans"...sorta defeats the point of passing, like Zen said.

[Anthony Jake]

Hmm..
Definately if your planning on dating someone they really should know, at least a little background, otherwise they may be angry that you didnt tell them, and as much as it sucks some people just wouldnt date a trans person.. so, to save hurt on both sides I think potential S/O's need to know.

People I meet on a non regular basis don't need to know, why would they.. what would be the point, I'm a guy, they see me as a guy, there is no problem.

This has however made me think.. When I am at college, I will be sharing with another girl.. so I will be classified as a girl. Now, if I go in and say I am male, that may not come out so well. Also, the college don't know I am trans, I wasn't sure of myself when I applied, so never specified it.. Now, I don't want to tell them until I am there because, what if they don't accept it so well.. then I may loose my chance.
So, am I already decieving them? Theoretically not if I use my genetic make up No... I'm actually decieving myself by not telling them.. BUT when I get there and say I am called anthony now, or at least can you call me that.. then what will the girls think? I somewhat care bc I have to live with them.. and they may feel uncomfortable..

But really, I just want to be taken by anyone as Anthony.. but that is always going to be hard to have, least for the next 4 months.

I dont think its deception. We are being true to ourselves. Thats what counts.

[CaptLex]

I see it as an individual thing. I can understand why a transguy would want to be seen as a man and not a transman, and treated accordingly (and I suppose the best way to ensure this is to not mention the "trans" part of it). Personally, I don't mind being seen as a transman 'cause to me that's not any less of a man, just a different kind. And if anyone sees me as a "wannabe guy', that's their problem, not mine. I know what I am, but I also know how I got here (not the conventional way), and I really don't want to forget that or feel the need to. I hope at least some of that made sense.

But yeah, I think it's an individual thing, so there is no right or wrong way - just however we feel about it.

[Valeria]

Personally, I don't mind being seen as a transman 'cause to me that's not any less of a man, just a different kind. And if anyone sees me as a "wannabe guy', that's their problem, not mine.

An admirable attitude. The problem I have is that for many people (in my experience), knowing that I am trans erases the rest of my identity. People who know I am trans in origin often don't see me as lesbian, for instance -- and being lesbian-identified is an important part of who I am. They don't see me as a woman, they see me as a woman* -- always, with a distinction.

IOW, once someone know that I am trans, all too often it becomes THE defining characteristic about me in their minds. I've had people be startled at times by my reactions and needs being just the same as other women, because while they "accept" me as a woman, they don't really have me internally classified as a woman.

Now this is just my perception, and things may be slightly different for trans guys (I've read some essays on why cultural misogyny magnifies prejudice against trans women). But I know I'm not alone in this perception, and I think most of the same factors apply for trans men also.

One other argument is that once people know you are trans, your every action is judged through the prism of confirmation bias. If you are a trans woman, any action you take or aspect of your appearance that is overtly feminine is often perceived as proving that you are a shallow caricature of womanhood, obsessed with superficialities. OTOH, any action you take or aspect of your appearance that is too masculine (or simply not feminine enough) can be be perceived as proving that you are really just a man badly imitating a woman. Your gender presentation and gender roles can be held to a different standard than other people, creating a catch-22 situation. I would imagine that the same is true in reverse for trans men.

If you don't care about any of that stuff, then you can live a happy life either way. I know a few people who are very out about their being trans -- some of them consider trans to be a part of their identity (IOW, they identify as trans).

But I just want to be perceived as a normal woman (albeit a queer femme in a lesbian relationship). So I normally inform no one (although my partner and our families know, of course).

To answer the original question, I don't consider it deception at all. I rarely have to even be very evasive, much less lie -- the question simply never comes up. No one is under any obligation to volunteer such private information to friends, not even close friends.

I will admit that I've gotten used to lying about a few embarrasing questions I'm sometimes asked by nurses, like when was my last period, but honestly most of the time they don't really need to know that anyway -- they ask because they don't trust women to be competent to know if there is a chance we are pregnant, and in my case I'm pretty certain I'm not.

[CaptLex]

I just want to be perceived as a normal woman (albeit a queer femme in a lesbian relationship). So I normally inform no one (although my partner and our families know, of course).

As I said, Kehleyr, I totally get that, and I have no problem with people going that route - it's an individual thing, no right or wrong in my book.

If you don't care about any of that stuff, then you can live a happy life either way. I know a few people who are very out about their being trans -- some of them consider trans to be a part of their identity (IOW, they identify as trans).

Yeah, that's it in a nutshell - for me. That stuff is just not that important to me - people have been judging me by their own code all my life for other reasons (not at all trans-related), and though I don't like it, it's something I can pretty much shrug off now. So if they see me distortedly because I'm trans, I can't spend much time worrying about it. As long as I know who I am, they can pretty much think whatever they want.

But, again, I don't expect you or anyone else to feel that way and I don't judge you for thinking differently. To each his/her own . . . savvy?

[Nicki B]

This has however made me think.. When I am at college, I will be sharing with another girl.. so I will be classified as a girl. Now, if I go in and say I am male, that may not come out so well. Also, the college don't know I am trans, I wasn't sure of myself when I applied, so never specified it.. Now, I don't want to tell them until I am there because, what if they don't accept it so well.. then I may loose my chance.

Go, be yourself - but I do think it is wiser to share with a girl, than another man, while you have female body? It's down to you to explain to your room mate about your status and build a relationship with her - but ime genetic women feel less threatened by F2Ms, than M2Fs?

[Valeria]

But, again, I don't expect you or anyone else to feel that way and I don't judge you for thinking differently. To each his/her own . . . savvy?

Of course. I wasn't criticizing your choices, I was just explaining why I felt differently.

BTW, please don't post my name in the unprotected sections.