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Thread: Becoming a GG (Long Post) Would you want to?

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    Member Nyx's Avatar
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    Becoming a GG (Long Post) Would you want to?

    As I have expressed before, I see the current methods of transexualisation as extremely expensive and inefficient. They can turn a man into a sterile woman, with no guarantees whatsoever... You might just not look that feminine, even after facial feminization surgery... You might lose the capability to have orgasms, or even lose your voice forever if you try vocal cord surgery. Not to mention that you will have to take hormones for the rest of your life. It has its risks, its disadvantages, and high costs.

    Nevertheless, since age 5, I always wanted to be a girl... And over the years, I have been trying to imagine how to make it possible. Being somewhat of a scientist myself, I didn't fantasizes on alien performing some more advanced SRS on me. Instead, I dreamt of something that could make it happen in this world. Something that could turn a guy, not into a transexual, but into a girl. A real girl. A genetic girl.

    As you all know, normal humans possess 23 pairs of chromosomes. The chromosomes of these pairs come from mommy and daddy. 22 of these pairs are "identical" chromosomes. In the sense that they contain the same genes. One of these pairs, however, is not always identical. This pair is the pair of sexual chromosomes, known as gonosomes. In the case of a woman, this is an "identical" pair of two X chromosomes. In the case of men, however, the pair contains an X chromosome and a Y chromosome (which do not contain the same genes).

    It is believed the Y chromosome acts as a trigger in order to make a potentially female individual into a male. So, where am I getting? Males and females have different sets of gonosomes, yes. However, there is an interesting fact. This fact is while females have two X chromosomes and no Y, men have the Y, but they also have the X. Hence, in a sense, men possess all the genetic code to build a female individual. In fact, in theory, if you could take any man's genetic code, replace the Y gonosome by an X gonosome taken in another cell, and take insert this modified genetic code in an empty ovula, you could produce a female clone of that man. Of course, that clone would not have the same memory as the man, etc... But it would be a nearly identical clone, except female... Much like a female identical twin sister. Now, this seems pretty pointless. We could basically recreate a clone of you "as a female", and see how that person grows up to be, but it wouldn't really affect you... But there are some other interesting genetic facts.

    There exists a category of virus (of which the AIDS virus is part of), that can modify the DNA of human cells in order to insert its own code into them. Of course, the AIDS virus is not a very fun thing... But imagine if we could engineer our own retrovirus for our own purposes. A retrovirus with the special purpose of editing a specific person's DNA in each of their cells. Where am I getting, again. Well, I'm suggesting the use of a retrovirus to change a male's DNA into female DNA. That would make you a genetic girl.

    This is not enough, however. As an adult person, all of your cells are specialized. For this reason, they cannot change function, or create new physical attributes, like stem cells (as found in embryos) can. Hence, if we modified your DNA, you would not physically change, apart from traits that only depend on the generation of proteins. We could basically change your eye/hair/skin color, and a few other things, but just like a person who has had esthetic surgery does not regress to their "natural" physical appearance, you would not physically become female. In fact, it is possible that your male attributes would keep functioning perfectly normally and even produce viable semen (that would only be able to produce female children, however, as you could no longer transmit a Y chromosome).

    So, again, we are not yet at the goal. But, there are more interesting facts of nature. Some lizards have the capability of not just regenerating wounds, but also regenerating entire lost limbs through stem cells that can recreate them. And as a matter of fact, there are ways to make specialized cells (your cells) regress to the state of stem cells. So, if we could not only change your genetic code, but also find a way to create stem cells, or embryonic cells in your system that would trigger the formation of female attributes, we could make you a genetic (and physical) girl. All this without surgery, using only the injection of a retrovirus and possibly stem cells.

    Of course, its not as easy as I make it sounds, but its not that far from reality either. And not only that, but if something like this were possible, it would have many more applications, like curing genetic diseases, regrowing lost limbs and curing diseases. Even more interesting, if we could regenerate you, we could make you become young again... And hence make it possible to extend human life expectancy by many orders of magnitude. Of course, if this ever becomes possible, it won't happen instantly, but most likely over the course of a few years. And obviously, it could apply to FTM transexuals just as well, although we would have to obtain a foreign Y chromosome to insert.

    So, if this was a reality, would you want it?

    Personally, if something reliable like this existed, with the guarantee of turning me into a real genetic girl (even if it took a few years), and without totally ruining me on the financial aspect... I certainly would. I would take this, and turn myself into a girl of physical age about 7 (if possible), and live my childhood and teenage years over, but as a female, so I could experience everything girls go through. I would only do it if I had the guarantee that my memories remain unaffected, however.
    Last edited by Nyx; 04-09-2005 at 04:05 PM.

  2. #2
    heaven sent celeste26's Avatar
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    Scifi invades the forum. The last idea of becoming a 7 year old would be the hardest part. I hate to think about the problems that would create for yourself and everyone around you. The rest has been thought of before in some of the Trans fiction that I read (from many years ago.) It is still a fantasy and a fine one at that.
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    Just do me and I'll feel girlie enough. You make my head hurt.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Sweet Susan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyx
    So, if we could not only change your genetic code, but also find a way to create stem cells, or embryonic cells in your system that would trigger the formation of female attributes, we could make you a genetic (and physical) girl. All this without surgery, using only the injection of a retrovirus and possibly stem cells.

    Of course, its not as easy as I make it sounds, but its not that far from reality either. And not only that, but if something like this were possible, it would have many more applications, like curing genetic diseases, regrowing lost limbs and curing diseases. Even more interesting, if we could regenerate you, we could make you become young again... And hence make it possible to extend human life expectancy by many orders of magnitude. Of course, if this ever becomes possible, it won't happen instantly, but most likely over the course of a few years. And obviously, it could apply to FTM transexuals just as well, although we would have to obtain a foreign Y chromosome to insert.

    So, if the final solution was a reality, would you take it?

    Personally, if something reliable like this existed, with the guarantee of turning me into a real genetic girl (even if it took a few years), and without totally ruining me on the financial aspect... I certainly would. I would take this, and turn myself into a girl of physical age about 7 (if possible), and live my childhood and teenage years over, but as a female, so I could experience everything girls go through. I would only do it if I had the guarantee that my memories remain unaffected, however.
    So, you would only do this if you could retain your memory? You want to be a seven year old girl and know that you used to be 20 something year old guy who wanted to be girl ever since he was five? Is that what you want? Welcome to science fiction.

    Not only do I think that this will never happen, I also think I'd like to have a sip of what you've been drinking, if you think that this could actually happen. I have no doubt that you'd be able to retain your memory. My doubt comes in the form of the religious right in America would have you nixed (pun intended) before they'd ever let you do such a thing. But, hey, good luck with this one. It would make a great HBO series. Probably the best one, yet.

  5. #5
    That's right, I did it Sharon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyx
    As I have expressed before, I see the current methods of transexualisation as extremely expensive and inefficient. They can turn a man into a sterile woman, with no guarantees whatsoever... You might just not look that feminine, even after facial feminization surgery... You might lose the capability to have orgasms, or even lose your voice forever if you try vocal cord surgery. Not to mention that you will have to take hormones for the rest of your life. It has its risks, its disadvantages, and high costs.
    Nyx,
    I have chosen to quote only the opening paragraph of your post as it is what I want to address. I did enjoy the remainder of the post however and found its premise intriguing to say the least. If not for family, I would certainly consider it, if it was available.

    I have seen at least one other post by you where you mention that SRS is undesirable because a transexual could never become a "whole" (my word) woman. Whether to have sexual reallignment surgery or not should not be dependant on whether one would be beautiful or not. The need for having this procedure comes from within.
    I wish I could be a beautiful woman if I decide to have surgery (not likely to happen though), but it would not be the determining factor on whether I proceed with it or not. I would do so because it is a female that exists in my soul; it being the essense of who I truly am. What I see written between the lines of your posts is that less attractive women are somehow lesser in value than those women we see on runways or movie screens -- what I view as stereotypical macho BS. We, of all people, should know better!
    Cost would certainly be a consideration to take into account, but if it's something I want badly enough, then I would find a way to make it happen. And the ability of having an orgasm or not should also not be a major consideration since sexual gratification is at least ninety percent mental. And besides, SRS has made amazing strides in the last decade or so, so that it is more likely that sex will be even better since your body matches your brain.

    It just sounds to me that you're just making excuses for not having the surgery, which means, of course, that you shouldn't -- at least not yet.
    “I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best.”
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  6. #6
    Member Dominique Melt's Avatar
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    For some reason, I have a problem with the term "Final Solution." Does anyone else or am I being hypersensitive?
    Yes, I am an Israelite.
    Every man should learn how to walk in high heels

  7. #7
    Member Nyx's Avatar
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    Scifi invades the forum. The last idea of becoming a 7 year old would be the hardest part. I hate to think about the problems that would create for yourself and everyone around you. The rest has been thought of before in some of the Trans fiction that I read (from many years ago.) It is still a fantasy and a fine one at that.
    It might be "scifi", but its not that far from reality. It does not involve alien technology or anything. Only genetic manipulations, some of which we can already perform. Creating a female clone of yourself, as I mentioned earlier, is something we already have the means to do... And there are already experiments being done with stem cells that show positive results in the regeneration of damaged organs.

    Quote Originally Posted by carolynhcd
    Just do me and I'll feel girlie enough. You make my head hurt.
    Well... Maybe you're not a transexual.

    So, you would only do this if you could retain your memory? You want to be a seven year old girl and know that you used to be 20 something year old guy who wanted to be girl ever since he was five? Is that what you want? Welcome to science fiction.
    I value the person I am and what I have learned. If I lost my memory, I would just be a completely different person, and there wouldn't be that much point, honestly. To want to lose your all your memory, you would have to hate yourself or something.

    Not only do I think that this will never happen, I also think I'd like to have a sip of what you've been drinking, if you think that this could actually happen. I have no doubt that you'd be able to retain your memory. My doubt comes in the form of the religious right in America would have you nixed (pun intended) before they'd ever let you do such a thing. But, hey, good luck with this one. It would make a great HBO series. Probably the best one, yet.
    Well, I wouldn't have to tell anyone either. I could just do it, and then manage to get adopted or something

    What I see written between the lines of your posts is that less attractive women are somehow lesser in value than those women we see on runways or movie screens -- what I view as stereotypical macho BS. We, of all people, should know better!
    Of course beauty isn't all, but denying that it has any importance is naive. If you were asked to describe the woman you would want to be, surely you would not say that you dream of being a 300 pound bald woman... Or a transexual woman that everyone sees as a man-in-a-dress, and not as a woman. Lets face it: everyone wants to be a beautiful person.

    Cost would certainly be a consideration to take into account, but if it's something I want badly enough, then I would find a way to make it happen. And the ability of having an orgasm or not should also not be a major consideration since sexual gratification is at least ninety percent mental.
    Sex is a very important part of love life... And unsatisfactory sex often leads to... Unsatisfactory relationships...

    That said, none of you answered the most important question: Would you do it or not?
    Last edited by Nyx; 04-09-2005 at 10:03 AM.

  8. #8
    Silver Member Priscilla1018's Avatar
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    Shalom Dominique,

    I too have misgivings about the use of the term "Final Solution" I have Israeli friends that I work out with.The rest of Nyx post was facsinating.

    Love and Hugs,
    Priscilla
    Love and Hugs,
    Priscilla

  9. #9
    The true Drama Queen Kimberly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dominique Melt
    For some reason, I have a problem with the term "Final Solution." Does anyone else or am I being hypersensitive?
    Yes, I am an Israelite.
    Isn't 'the final solution' the Nazi plan to iradicate the Jewish population of the world?? This phrase scares me a little too.

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    Member Nyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberly.tv
    Isn't 'the final solution' the Nazi plan to iradicate the Jewish population of the world?? This phrase scares me a little too.
    Are you serious? I didn't know about that and don't really want to be associated with nazis. I meant the final solution in the sense that it should solve any transexuality issues. Sorry about this! I will try to edit the name of my post if I can...

    For some reason, I have a problem with the term "Final Solution." Does anyone else or am I being hypersensitive?
    Yes, I am an Israelite.
    You're not being oversensitive. Thanks for pointing it out, that way I can avoid calling it that in the future, and making unwanted enemies.

    EDIT: I can edit it, but the thread name does not change on the main forum...
    Last edited by Nyx; 04-09-2005 at 04:09 PM.

  11. #11
    Tasha Natasha Anne's Avatar
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    I have no doubt about what I want to be.

    I could quite happily switch overnight without complaint, personal circumstances (wife and children who I'd rather I died than be without) excluded.

    I often wish I could capture the essence of what it was like to be a girl. I mostly feel cheated out of an experience I feel should have been accorded to me. I never wanted to be what I am physically, and it troubles me that if I ever went through the change, I wouldn't have the experiences I needed to make it real. Impotence and surgically created parts don't bug me at all. My soul is what I am.

    If my wife dissappeared out of my life I'd go for it and not look back.

    As for the 'final solution', although many of us know what the phrase stood for, the younger generation may not. Please give Nyx the benefit of the doubt, I'm sure she was not being deliberately offensive and values people who corrected her in a respectful way.
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  12. #12
    "Stephanie"
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    As I read your question, it boils down to this:




    [SIZE=3]
    "Would you become a GG if you could?"
    [/SIZE]





    If you boiled down my response it would be this:

    [SIZE=7]
    "Yes!"
    [/SIZE]

    What could be simpler?
    Love,
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  13. #13
    Platinum Member ChristineRenee's Avatar
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    Hi Nyx,

    Well I was fascinated by your post. The "final solution" phrase, however, unnerved me too and you'll want to refrain from using that in the future. But the rest of the post I found to be very interesting indeed. Kinda reminded me of that movie parody on Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde called Dr. Jekyll and Ms. Hyde starring Tim Daly and Sean Young from 1995. Even though it is a comedy, it has many of the same scientific elements that you mentioned. Would make a great series for HBO I agree.

    I wouldn't want to go back to the age of 7 again however...whether my memory was retained or not. Puberty was tough enough to go through once as a boy and I don't care to revisit that territory again.

    Good post though Nyx. I'm sure that somewhere...up above...from the dark shadows and regions of the Twilight Zone....Mr. Rod Serling is looking down, cigarette firmly in hand, and smiling very broadly!

    Submitted for your approval....

    Love,
    Chrissie

  14. #14
    Member Nyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkenPrincess
    As I read your question, it boils down to this:
    "Would you become a GG if you could?"
    If you boiled down my response it would be this:
    "Yes!"

    What could be simpler?
    Of course, but I also mentioned that it could take a few years

    But personally, my main concern is actually the effectiveness of the transformation.

    Kinda reminded me of that movie parody on Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde called Dr. Jekyll and Ms. Hyde starring Tim Daly and Sean Young from 1995. Even though it is a comedy, it has many of the same scientific elements that you mentioned. Would make a great series for HBO I agree.
    I thought of that too. That would really be the ultimate fantasy (being able to transform from one state to the other instantly). However, I don't think it will ever be possible, which is why I've been trying to think of ways to make the transformation happen, even if it could take a while.

    I wouldn't want to go back to the age of 7 again however...whether my memory was retained or not. Puberty was tough enough to go through once as a boy and I don't care to revisit that territory again.
    There is much to learn though. Childhood is the foundation of your life.
    Last edited by Nyx; 04-12-2005 at 05:42 PM.

  15. #15
    androgynouskinky
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    Smile Puberty

    Dont know much about genetics, but if you follow this solution, allowing the body to "Regenerate parts" wouldn't you go through puberty again as your mature as a female and as a side effect how about teething. Other options could inclue mixed male and female using XXY or XYX chromosomes, I think the addition of this chromosome causes downs syndrome???? Have Fun
    Last edited by androgynouskinky; 04-12-2005 at 05:51 PM.

  16. #16
    Member Nyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by androgynouskinky
    Dont know much about genetics, but if you follow this solution, allowing the body to "Regenerate parts" wouldn't you go through puberty again as your mature as a female and as a side effect how about teething. Other options could inclue mixed male and female using XXY or XYX chromosomes, I think the addition of this chromosome causes downs syndrome???? Have Fun
    Actually XXY is the klinefelter syndrome... Which is not good at all But by modifying other genes (not just chromosomic replacement), you might be able to get an androgynous state that is more interesting.

  17. #17
    Davena
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    [SIZE=7]YES[/SIZE]

    I like your idea...

  18. #18
    Member Nyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davena
    YES

    I like your idea...
    Now, we just need ressources to finance a lab and research activities

  19. #19
    "Stephanie"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyx
    But personally, my main concern is actually the effectiveness of the transformation.
    My ultimate goal would be to bear children. If that could be possible, I wouldn't care how long the process took. That would be the effectiveness level I would look for. And flip-flopping back and forth would NEVER be considered. Why would I WANT to go back to a condition of mismatched halves if I could be a unity? Flip-flopping may be something that some would want, but for the life of me I just can't see the reasoning behind it. For those of you who would like to go back and forth, more power to ya! But for me, once I was fixed I would never go back to being broken.
    Love,
    SilkenPrincess

  20. #20
    Member Nyx's Avatar
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    I agree, I definitely want to have kids later on as well. This is another of the things I find is lacking from current transexualisation techniques. Even though its not as popular nowadays, being able to bear children is a great gift.

  21. #21
    Member Nyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morph
    Yes, If this was "fantasy island". But it isn't. So we have to learn to live with it.
    I still hope this will become possible before I die... And it just might be. In the meantime, I reserve myself the right to have scientifically coherent fantasies

    True GG's may have to go through puberty for a few years...but we have to go through puberty for a lot longer than that...it just never seems to end. We indulge and then purge....again and again. No wonder the rest of the world thinks we are "in need of professional help"?!!
    I think most people are in need of professional help. People go to a yearly medical exam, why not a routine psychological exam? That could possibly solve and prevent many problems.

  22. #22
    Aspiring Member MarieTS's Avatar
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    I understand why Nyx said she would like to retain her male memory following her Brave New World transformation. Or, at least why I would want to. That reason being, that we often don't appreciate what we have. If we retained some memory of our male existance, we would be more appreciative of finally reaching our goal of being converted to the proper gender.
    Marie

  23. #23
    Member Nyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarieTG
    I understand why Nyx said she would like to retain her male memory following her Brave New World transformation. Or, at least why I would want to. That reason being, that we often don't appreciate what we have. If we retained some memory of our male existance, we would be more appreciative of finally reaching our goal of being converted to the proper gender.
    I think you expressed it very well. Thats mostly what I was thinking. I wouldn't want not to appreciate myself afterwards. But its also because I value myself as a person... And if I ended up being a totally different person, then there would be no point. I would want to benefit from all that I have learned. I would want to be an improved version of me, not just a totally different person.

  24. #24
    That's right, I did it Sharon's Avatar
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    Of course beauty isn't all, but denying that it has any importance is naive. If you were asked to describe the woman you would want to be, surely you would not say that you dream of being a 300 pound bald woman... Or a transexual woman that everyone sees as a man-in-a-dress, and not as a woman. Lets face it: everyone wants to be a beautiful person.

    I don't find this naive at all Nyx -- you're missing the point of the post. If I had my preference, of course I would want to be beautiful! But even more important is that I be able to be the person on the exterior that I feel on the interior.
    I can't do too much with what was given to me by my Maker, but I do with it what I can. If the best I can do is be a "300-pound man-in-a-dress," then that is what I will be.
    Modern medicine and surgery can do some amazing things nowadays if you have the means to take advantage of them. Beyond this though, would it be preferable to remain in a body that you feel is "wrong?" If so, then I seriously doubt you are a transsexual.
    And don't forget the old adage, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." For every person out there, no matter how they appear, there are those who find their particular characteristics appealing.
    I can tell by your posts that you're very intelligent and give great weight to the things you write. I'm just not sure your priorities are quite right.
    “I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best.”
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  25. #25
    Senorita Member Sigrid's Avatar
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    Nyx

    I like your train of thought.....but,

    <Nyx - "Creating a female clone of yourself, as I mentioned earlier, is something we already have the means to do".>

    They've cloned one sheep, Dolly, who was put to sleep at the age of six, half the normal life span of sheep. Cloning a human being and expecting it to live a full life won't happen for decades if only for the moral and legal issues which first must be debated and resolved.

    <Nyx - "Of course, if this ever becomes possible, it won't happen instantly, but most likely over the course of a few years".>

    Again, decades. I've had some exposure in the medical industry and have witnessed just how long it takes to get breakthrough tools and drugs though the testing and approvals process. Years alone for even what seem to be the most innocuous and beneficial products. And that doesn't begin to address the years, even decades of research which preceed them.

    In the late 1950's the medical community began seriously predicting that a cure for cancer was within reach. Fifty years later they may actually be seeing some real progress. And yet, still are cautiously estimating many, many years before a cure becomes a reality.

    <Nyx - "It might be "sci-fi", but its not that far from reality".>

    Of all the sci-fi I've read in my life, I've only seen two examples of where sci-fi predictions actually have become a reality;
    1. France’s George Melies’ 1902 film "Trip to the Moon". We got there sixty seven years later.
    2. Communicators ala Star Trek. I had a cell phone in my hand just twenty five years later.

    <Nyx - "I still hope this will become possible before I die... And it just might be. In the meantime, I reserve myself the right to have scientifically coherent fantasies">

    Technology has grown by leaps and bounds in my lifetime and appears breakthroughs may be beginning to grow exponentially. Based on the rate of progress in the last century - no way will this happen in your lifetime. Based on the rate of progress in the last five to ten years - who knows?

    No technological, scientific or medical breakthrough was based on doubt. It takes allot of imagination and passion (and a shitload of money) to push the boundaries in these fields. Looks like you're at least two/thirds the way there.


    As to your original question;

    If indeed this could be accomplished, then yes I'd certainly entertain the thought. It would be nice to "naturally" assume the physical appearance of a female. But, my likely decision would be to pass, much for the same reason I've never given serious thought to the notion of undergoing SRS. You simply haven't explained how they would re-engineer the soul. In the soul is where the real woman resides.

    ~Sigrid

    I'll take the pink one.
    "Just be honest, be faithful and have fun" ~ my wife

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