Becoming a GG (Long Post) Would you want to?

[Nyx]

They've cloned one sheep, Dolly, who was put to sleep at the age of six, half the normal life span of sheep. Cloning a human being and expecting it to live a full life won't happen for decades if only for the moral and legal issues which first must be debated and resolved.

Cloning a human is no different from cloning a sheep. Also, its not illegal everywhere, and since its something many scientists want to do, its bound to happen, if it hasn't happened already.

Again, decades. I've had some exposure in the medical industry and have witnessed just how long it takes to get breakthrough tools and drugs though the testing and approvals process. Years alone for even what seem to be the most innocuous and beneficial products. And that doesn't begin to address the years, even decades of research which preceed them.

I was not reffering to this technology here, but to the actual transformation process.

In the late 1950's the medical community began seriously predicting that a cure for cancer was within reach. Fifty years later they may actually be seeing some real progress. And yet, still are cautiously estimating many, many years before a cure becomes a reality.

The technology I have been talking about could possibly cure cancer too, as a matter of fact.

Of all the sci-fi I've read in my life, I've only seen two examples of where sci-fi predictions actually have become a reality;
1. France’s George Melies’ 1902 film "Trip to the Moon". We got there sixty seven years later.
2. Communicators ala Star Trek. I had a cell phone in my hand just twenty five years later.

Computers, submarines, airplanes, even electricity, those are all things many people never thought possible. Its not because people are skeptical that its not possible.

Technology has grown by leaps and bounds in my lifetime and appears breakthroughs may be beginning to grow exponentially. Based on the rate of progress in the last century - no way will this happen in your lifetime. Based on the rate of progress in the last five to ten years - who knows?

Assuming I eat well, keep doing some exercise and live carefully in general, I might very well live 60 more years, and possibly even more. And since cloning, along with genetic engineering, are already possible, combined with the imminent need for such a technology (mainly to cure AIDS and cancer), it might very well happen early enough.

But, my likely decision would be to pass, much for the same reason I've never given serious thought to the notion of undergoing SRS. You simply haven't explained how they would re-engineer the soul. In the soul is where the real woman resides.

I assume you mean "the mind", here. If you are a transexual, then you don't need anybody to "re-engineer" your mind.

[Sigrid]

Computers, submarines, airplanes, even electricity, .

yeah, just after I hit the post button, I came up with computers, submarines, television and lasers. Add nanotechnologies to the list too.

I assume you mean "the mind", here. .

No, I meant the soul. I believe there's a distinciton, but I'm not going there now.


Believe that I'm a strong proponent of scientific, technological and medical research and advancement. I sincerely hope that what you've proposed can be accomplished in your (hell, my) lifetime. The true implications would be unfathomable. Genetic Sexual Reassignment (GSR) would itself probably be just a footnote in grand picture. I'm not one to dissmiss out of hand such seemingly far fetched concepts. When I started my career designing 64kbps audio circuits, I wouldn't have dreamed that I would have ended it designing 2.4 gigabit fiber optic links.

Lets just agree to disagree on the timeline, however.



Back to your question;

I am not transsexual. However, if I were and I was already committed to sexual reassignment and this were a viable and safe alternative to surgury and it was economicaly within my means and they could reverse the aging process so I could assume the body of a 21 year old (I'd want to go clubbing soon after) and I could retain my lifetime of memories and.......well, sure, why not?

[Danielle1960]

If you could become a beautiful woman but the deal came with a life expectancy of only 6 months, would you do it? If so you would wake up as a 10 but at the end of six months that is it......

Of course in this decision would be your current life you are leaving, so this would mean saying goodbye to your children, wife, family ect. ???


Oh well,, couldn't resist throwing a wrench into the conversation.

Danielle

[Davena]

Nyx
Of all the sci-fi I've read in my life, I've only seen two examples of where sci-fi predictions actually have become a reality;
1. France’s George Melies’ 1902 film "Trip to the Moon". We got there sixty seven years later.
2. Communicators ala Star Trek. I had a cell phone in my hand just twenty five years later.

I remember the original ST series when I was a child. So what have you left out... Computers, shuttlecraft, a spacestation, color monitors, harmless energy weapons (taser and the other thingie with the electric spark?), cd music disc, DVD movie disc, widescreen televisions, home entertainment systems that rival theaters. Automatic opening doors. The neutron bomb would be like the photon torpedo I guess. Laserbeam weapons. MRI and Catscan... Thats all i can think of that I remember from the 60's ST series...

[Sigrid]

yeah, I thought of several others too, some of which I've noted in my subsequent post. It was late, I was tired.

[AmyCarter]

If you could become a beautiful woman but the deal came with a life expectancy of only 6 months, would you do it? If so you would wake up as a 10 but at the end of six months that is it......

Of course in this decision would be your current life you are leaving, so this would mean saying goodbye to your children, wife, family ect. ???


Oh well,, couldn't resist throwing a wrench into the conversation.

Danielle

Not for six months, but for 18 months, i would take up that offer in a heartbeat.
My schedule would be: first 3 to 6 months - find a husband, get married, get pregnant. Last 3 to 6 months - raise my baby.
At that point, my life would be 'complete'.

[Elysia]

Nyx, thanks for your fascinating thoughts. I don’t know how far off any of this stuff might be and I’m sure there are a thousand moral and ethical dilemmas that will need to be addressed as this stuff becomes less theory and more reality but it sure does get one thinking. I thought what would happen if we could get cloning worked out so that we could produce a body into which we could transfer a mind.

Not only could you choose your gender but you could live forever. When the body you’ve got starts to get old just transfer your mind, memories and everything into a new one. Go the first half of the century as a blond, the next half as a brunette. You could try on all the colors of the world. Racism and sexism would end and we’d all end up loving each other for our minds. People would then realize that it’s what’s inside that really matters.

[Ariel]

No thankyou, don't want to say bye to my lovely wife and kids. I have often thought bout the going back in time, and wanting to be able to remember everything that I now know. It would be neat, but I'm not sure that I would want to go through the painful times that I have been through, again.

[stephanie1977]

If it were possible I think I would go for it but I would only want selective memories retained. I wouldn't want all the hardships that I've gone through to be kept. Only the good memories.

[Ashley in Virginia]

Of course beauty isn't all, but denying that it has any importance is naive. If you were asked to describe the woman you would want to be, surely you would not say that you dream of being a 300 pound bald woman... Or a transexual woman that everyone sees as a man-in-a-dress, and not as a woman. Lets face it: everyone wants to be a beautiful person.

I don't find this naive at all Nyx -- you're missing the point of the post. If I had my preference, of course I would want to be beautiful! But even more important is that I be able to be the person on the exterior that I feel on the interior.
I can't do too much with what was given to me by my Maker, but I do with it what I can. If the best I can do is be a "300-pound man-in-a-dress," then that is what I will be.
Modern medicine and surgery can do some amazing things nowadays if you have the means to take advantage of them. Beyond this though, would it be preferable to remain in a body that you feel is "wrong?" If so, then I seriously doubt you are a transsexual.
And don't forget the old adage, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." For every person out there, no matter how they appear, there are those who find their particular characteristics appealing.
I can tell by your posts that you're very intelligent and give great weight to the things you write. I'm just not sure your priorities are quite right.

Something we can agree on lol. I think as one gets older we begin to be able to see the beauty of a person within. At age 18 I put off dressing fully becasue I knew I would never be beautiful like the women I see out in the world. But after socializing and learning more and more about people, you begin to overlook a few extra pounds or scars or a third eye or whatever makes them "not perfectly beautiful" and are able to see the beauty within.

Maybe in time, she will want to go ahead and transition and be a "man in a dress" so to speak because she found her beauty within? But we can't fault her for her thoughts on beauty now, because for all of her life she has been brainwashed by the media about what is or isnt beautiful.

[girlintouch]

Yes of cource and more than ever every day

[Vicky A]

My ultimate goal would be to bear children. If that could be possible, I wouldn't care how long the process took. That would be the effectiveness level I would look for. And flip-flopping back and forth would NEVER be considered. Why would I WANT to go back to a condition of mismatched halves if I could be a unity? Flip-flopping may be something that some would want, but for the life of me I just can't see the reasoning behind it. For those of you who would like to go back and forth, more power to ya! But for me, once I was fixed I would never go back to being broken.
Love,
SilkenPrincess

I agree with you SilkenPrincess as that would be the ultimate goal - to bear children like any other female. I could not stand flip-flopping either for same reasons you just mentioned.
love,
Vicky A

[eleventhdr]

Yes I know just what you mean. But Yes I would still op out to become GG but not the way it is still being done now today this is still very primitive way for a male to become GG and is still very unsatisfactory really. Until they study and finally find out how lower animals are able to change sex this is the only way i would op out for this or maybe by using female hormones direct from female to alter a male complety or something along these lines indeed then yes i would do so in a minute you bet. Oh well!. Suzy!.

[Milla]

Nano tech , but thats a long way away.

[Deborah]

My ultimate goal would be to bear children. If that could be possible, I wouldn't care how long the process took. That would be the effectiveness level I would look for. And flip-flopping back and forth would NEVER be considered. Why would I WANT to go back to a condition of mismatched halves if I could be a unity? Flip-flopping may be something that some would want, but for the life of me I just can't see the reasoning behind it. For those of you who would like to go back and forth, more power to ya! But for me, once I was fixed I would never go back to being broken.
Love,
SilkenPrincess

I'm with you.

[Julie]

This is something that's been covered in other threads. In one, I responded with reference to an article I read years ago where scientists had discovered the aging gene in lab mice. They were able to stop the aging process. Of course I knew if this were to ever happen with humans it would destroy our delicate balance we now have with nature and havoc would ensue. The earth would soon become so overpopulated we'd probably end up killing one another just to get some alone time or for food, which become a scarce commodity.

But your idea has a problem that may not be solvable and that's de-aging. Can the human body actually grow younger? For your scenario to become a reality it would have to. Because even if you were able to alter the DNA to that of a female version of yourself you'd still have things like bone structure which would not be affected, except in the area of osteoporosis in later life. The only way to change bone structure is by de-aging and going through the growth process again, but this time as a female. Ponce deLeon couldn't find it and I doubt we will either.

Nice thought though. But for me, I'll just have to rely on reincarnation to do the trick. It's an easier pill to swallow.

[Nyx]

I didn't think this thread would survive that long. Glad to see its still there

As for de-aging. I would rather call it regeneration. Its mostly a matter of progressively replacing old tissues and organs. Of course, the trickiest part is really the brain, but I believe that even there, by introducing a slow neural regeneration, one could retain his/her memory and personality while the brain is being regenerated.

Some people believe that aging is caused by long-term use. I don't. If you look at young children, and young adults (up to say, 25 at least), it looks like they're not aging. Their condition is not decreasing. You only really see a certain level of aging in the 30s (perhaps at 35). I believe this is due to the fact that cells begin to reproduce at a slower rate, which inevitably means that sustained damage will not be fully repaired, which results in aging.

If we could create a regeneration process, using stem cells and retroviruses that would stimulate the reproduction of cells and stabilitze their reproduction rate at a higher frequency, it might be possible for people to become younger again, and stay that way for long. If its really impossible to just regenerate organs, we can just create new ones. It might be possible, at some point, to grow human organs in laboratories based on stem cell cultures.

As for bone structure, we can help it a bit by regenerating it, possibly by selectively destroying bone parts and making them grow again, but with female DNA and hormones, creating a naturally feminine bone structure.

Of course, all these procedures might sound very drastic, but if its done over the course of a long time (as long as perhaps 10 years), then the risks can be reduced.

[kazeparker]

Some scientists have been working on a process similar to the described regeneration of old cells to a more viable state by reversing the degeneration of mitochondria in the cells to give the overall body a younger state, but it was unclear to me how far they can regenerate the mitochondria in terms of years. They seemed certain that one could not go the opposite way through puberty as I guess the mitochondria don't start wearing out to a noticeable extent by oxidation until after the body has fully grown (that portion of their research was also quite ambiguous, as they've only theorized based off of current test results). But who knows, really; I think there's been some amazing things to come out of scientific and medical research that boggles the mind as it is, and someone with enough imagination could figure out a way to do it. Maybe the methods of regenerating mitochondria could be used in conjunction with replacing tissue and organs, possibly on tissue that would be difficult to successfully replace. There is already a medication on the market that supposedly can slow mitochondria deterioration, though it's hard to determine the results as it's new and there's little that can be done to see the effects it has on an aging body.

As for the idea of using a virus to change genetic code, I'm aware that a cancer-hunting virus can seek out the cancerous cells and inject the DNA to fix those cells, but I believe their target is specific (though I'm sure having a healthy cell receive healthy DNA wouldn't do much harm anyways). Would it be possible to create a virus to change all types of cells, or would it require a series of viruses with specific targets?

I think the most interesting part is that any virus like that would be the first virus designed to change every single cell eventually. Granted, the viruses won't have created all of the cells as some of the newly-coded cells would divide and make a presence that way, but the thought of every single cell eventually changing is mind-boggling. So long as there were enough viruses to guarantee that the newly-coded cells would be able to divide and become the only cells remaining, as the old DNA would remain in many cells that would still have the ability to divide were they not stopped.

The second thing that intrigues me about this is it could potentially throw DNA evidence out the window if a criminal were to do something illegal and then immediately begin to change his/her genetic code severely, depending on the timeframe between when evidence was found and when the criminal is tested (which sometimes takes years). But maybe that would be an incentive to rework the system and make processes like the judicial system move faster, though, since the chromosomes wouldn't change overnight.

Anyways, to answer the initial post, I'd do it.

[Kera_Efflorescence]

Definitely, I would do it. Maybe make myself a year or two younger... with a better metabolism... clear skin, healthy immune system.... but see, then we start getting into genetic manipulation to match an ideal of perfection. I guess it's a little better because it's on yourself instead of your children, but we're still talking about giving people the ability to remove everything they dislike about their bodies.

Now, this may sound like a wonderful world to some people, and I selfishly tend to feel the same way --- but the fact is, we'd quickly turn into a race of super-intelligent, beautiful, ultra healthy, eternally young beings. Ignoring the overpopulation issues, okay, great... but we have no variety anymore. Part of the reason people develop their different interests and personalities in life has to do with where their strengths and weaknesses lie. But in this world, everyone will have strengths, and no weaknesses. I mean, given the chance, why have it any other way? Why would anyone decide to have any part of their body be sub-standard when they can choose to have it all be perfect? And if they did choose imperfection, they would quickly be trampled and outpeformed by everyone else who did choose perfection (this is starting to remind me of movie Gataca).

In a way, it would be like playing a game of poker in which everyone cheats. What's the point of playing when everyone lays down a hand of 5 aces?


Erm sorry for rambling and getting more into the ethical issues of genetic manipulation.

A little bit more on topic though --- if you kept all your memories, you wouldn't REALLY be experiencing what a 7 year old girl experiences, because you'd be looking at everything through the veil of your past memories, thoughts and predjudices. What I'd prefer myself is to experience growing up again as a new girl with no old memories... but then being able to somehow regain my old consciousness and compare notes. Or somehow have had that consciousness present but not active... or something?

[kazeparker]

Ah, but if we all became super intelligent, perhaps we could shed some of our ignorance that plagues us and solve the overpopulation issue ethically

I'd imagine that if everyone had strengths and little to no weaknesses, then careers would be based on passions rather than abilities, and those passions would still be determined through experimentation. It's doubtful that even with all strengths, they would still vary from person to person (unless our genetic code became exactly the same in each person, which would possibly destroy our race as a whole because no child would be able to receive a different set of DNA from both parents, which would be comparable to what happens in an incestual relationship that results in children with deformities or the inability to sustain itself in the world). With all strengths but to varying degrees, there'd still be a variety of interests and career pursuits. Or, we'd learn to organize so those with the greatest strengths work towards a specific achievement for us as a civilization, and each group with their specific strengths could harmoniously contribute their specific achievement to make everything better for everyone. Though if that second option were realized, it'd probably mean an increase in science and technology research and development, while the arts would decline.

Anyways, those are my theories. It's also possible that everyone would want to play professional basketball with their strengths or something to that extent of a lack of diversity, though I still see people using their strengths in different ways.

[MissBosie]

My brain hurts.

[MarinaTwelve200]

I read a poll several years ago that suggested that up to 75% of hetro males would elect to be a female for a week or two, provided the change was COMPLETE and they could change back---Quite interesting. We guys are a curious lot.


Back to genetics, If the DNA could be changed, at the very most we could expect "soft tissue" changes. meaning the skin and organs and muscles might change, but the skeleton likely would not. It is mostly a lattice of "minerals" and ceases to grow at maturity. The only bones that MAY grow bigger, as seen in some forms of "giantisim" are the hands, Feet and jaw.---As females they wouldnt GROW anyway.--Indeed we want those to shrink, which they will not do.

Breasts, hips, and fat distribution wouldnt happen, despite complete DNA change, until The Testes athropied and the ovaries developed and started producing hormones.


Another thing to consider, aside from DNA change alone, is the Theory of the "BIOMETRIC FIELD" This has been proposed as an electromagnetic(?) or energy field that causes the individual cells, despite their DNA, to assemble themselves into the correct overall configuration of the organisim.----There MAy be some hope here, as even the skeleton deteriates and is replaced, cell by cell, the biometric Field might influence HOW the structures are replaced.---Eventually, the entire shape of the orgnasim MAY be altered.----It MAy be even more important than DNA in this respect.

[Like2BAspen]

being a woman would be the most wonderful thing in the world but for all the benefits there are sacrifices I am not ready to sacrifice my children so I must be satisfied with just being aspen when I can. If I did not have my children I would already be a full time gurl all the way

[Katie Ashe]

Tough Q. I wish I was born a GG. It would be easier on my feelings. But no I wouldn't have any surgery's. If my family and wife rejected me... I would move to a remote city in the middle of nowhere and not tell them where. Then live the life I want. I'm not comfortable with current tech yet, HRT is an option, but at what cost. My health is more important. I wouldn't want to lose my voice forever, or go blind, sexual feeling is important to me also. Everyone situation is different and dictates how they feel. One whom changes there body has to be for it 100% or not at all. You can't stop SRS in the middle or it... or I don't like my new chin out the old one back. We aren't built like cars, everyone needs to think about these things. I wish I had no body hair and had a girls voice... it would make CD'ing much easier. I'm happy being male/female for the most part. None of this make much sense I guess; sorry for rambling.

[SammyGirl]

YESSSSSS! If only that was possible! I am with you as long as it does not affect my memory at all. I definitely go for it if all was assure would be successful.

Sammy