Why is M 2 F TS so prevalent?

[MarieTS]

A few months ago there was a special on TV (no pun intended . The show was about transexualism. Perhaps some of you saw this special. The multi-night special closed with a very provocative call for further investigation by making the statement that we still do not know why so many men desire to become women.

Has anyone come across solid research that answers that question? I'm aware of the current theory that fetuses may have been deprived of adequate amounts of testosterone during a formative stage. But shouldn't there be an almost equal imbalance with the F 2 M community? If not, why not? There's got to be more to it than that.

I also believe that the CD community is founded on more than a simple fetish or desire to don nicer, sexier clothing. Afterall, there has to be a fundamental reason for this compulsion that's rooted in a desire to be female. Yes, the TS community clearly has a much more holistic approach to femininity than the CD. But nonetheless, as with our TS genre, M2F CD's are much more prevalent than F2M.

I really want to know why transition (be it temporary or permanent) is so much more commonplace in the M2F community than the F2M. I guess that goes a long way towards proving that females are truly the stronger sex. The male of the species may simply be drones afterall!

Thank you for your considerate reflection.

[Jan W]

Dear Marie,

"that we still do not know why so many men desire to become women"

In my opinion it is because we all began as female foetus's. Nature had to intervene to make the baby wholly male and this is achieved by heaps of testosterone.

Imagine that testosterone being diluted by any natural or synthethetic means. DES for example. What next? Boys with girly brains? Maybe?

There must be a reason so many of us prefer to be women, this is the tip of the iceberg of my theories!

[DonnaT]

To go along with what Jan said, note that one difference, if it is a testosterone thing, is that it will take too much testosterone tof make the girl F2M as opposed to too little testosterone to make the boy M2F. I figure it is easier to produce too little, than it is to produce too much.

Beside, maybe we just hear more from the M2F than the F2M?

[Sigrid]

But nonetheless, as with our TS genre, M2F CD's are much more prevalent than F2M.

Might be just that societal thang. F2M CD's go largely un-noticed - any girl in mens t-shirt, jeans and tennis shoes looks like any other girl on the street. Could be that they really don't need (as much) support and validation as do M2F CD's.

There may be just as many F2M as M2F, you just wouldn't notice them.

~Sigrid

[obsessedwithpantyhose]

Sigrid almost hit the nail on the head....we are surounded by F2M every female who is wearing pants is crossdressed

my 2 cents

[Jan W]

I have a different view of GGs in trousers. (Just my opinion)

Imagine your wife/sister/mother/girlfriend (if you are really messed up could all be the same woman, - kidding) in her everyday slacks and trousers and no makeup. Does she call herself a male name? Does she wear her hair in a male fashion or wear a man's wig? Does she adopt male mannerisms and overly male pursuits? Does she shun female underwear for male?

Now consider the "average" M2F crossdresser. Very feminine underwear, usually a dress or a skirt, hose, makeup, feminine mannerisms, ladies wig, ladies name and the love of participating in feminine pastimes.

I don't believe it is just about the clothes to me it is the whole package. Once dressed and presenting as a woman my persona is female.

[MarieTS]

Donna-- Excellent point! It would be much more likely to produce too little Testosterone in a male fetus than too much Testosterone (or too little estrogen?) in a girl fetus.

[Deidra Cowen]

I've seen many FtoM transexuals at gay bars in Atlanta as well as MtoF. Some of those girls look like very cute college boys. Ok, its rude talking about who is passable and all that. But one night I was talking to one of the drag queen performers at Model T's. She pointed over to a table of three attractive guys...said the one on the right was the daughter of a friend of hers.

[Natasha Anne]

Could it also be that lesbians get to express masculinity without too much difficulty, yet we struggle and fear displaying our feminity in a similar way.

Why be a man, when you can be a woman!?

[SissyPanties]

I think it is society. Men aren't allowed to express themselves as freely as women. I feel things as strongly as women but society doesn't allow me to express my feelings. Crossdressing helps me express my feelings. I think women simply don't have these kinds of hangups.

[Rachel Ann]

I agree with most of what's been said here. I do think that the social and cultural element is very strong. I couldn't express this side of myself until later in life, because it was just unthinkable in the past.

I have heard that in Hong Kong, about 50% of SRSs are FtM, while here it's 80% or 90% MtF. This might say something about the difference in the status of women between China and the US.

I don't think that gender and sexuality arise just from the "hormone wash" during pregnancy, nor is it "all in the mind". There is a very complicated lot of things going on inside of us, and science is only now scratching the surface.

[Natasha Anne]

Right on sister!

I agree with most of what's been said here. I do think that the social and cultural element is very strong. I couldn't express this side of myself until later in life, because it was just unthinkable in the past.


I have heard that in Hong Kong, about 50% of SRSs are FtM, while here it's 80% or 90% MtF. This might say something about the difference in the status of women between China and the US.

I don't think that gender and sexuality arise just from the "hormone wash" during pregnancy, nor is it "all in the mind". There is a very complicated lot of things going on inside of us, and science is only now scratching the surface.

[MarieTS]

Gals-- many, many good points! Thank you for your thoughts.

As you know, someday science will be able to identify serious maladies in the unborn and treat them prior to birth. I can't help but wonder that if predictors for TS are discovered, will chemical/DNA treatments be made available to parents to alter the sex while the fetus is still in the womb? That would save a lot of trouble, misery, expense, and dissapointment.
I know--- you think I'm dreaming and perhaps a bit nutty. But someday, all this could be so preventable. The technology will eventually be there to preclude so many problems. The question is-- will we use it?

[Julie]

When I made that assuming statement to a therapist who specializes in gender related issues she told me that the numbers are almost identical. Because we readily accept women dressed in almost any clothing they desire it's not obvious which ones are dressed due to an identity issue. This societal acceptance allows women to 'hide' in front of the entire world. If there are more men who undergo SRS than women I would guess the same reasons apply. Women can take on a male personna easily without having to go through painful surgeries and spend $100,000.00+ in the process, not so with men. What I also found out is many MTF TSs never have SRS but still live full time as women.

If things were the same for MTF I doubt I would have pursued HRT and considered FFS or SRS, although having breasts would still be just as desireable.

[Stlalice]

A short note here - in working with the local TS community the split between MTF and FTM seems to be on the order of about 50/50. As I understand it the cause of the problem is that while the physical sex of a fetus difffentiates at 12 weeks the development of the brain structures that govern things like gender identity and sexual preference doesn't happen until approx. weeks 16 to 20. Thus leaving open the chance for being TS etc. Wether this is a hormonal or genetic cause is open to debate. There are many studies lately showing definite differences between the brain structures of men and women as well as between "straight" and gay or TS folk. The incidence of this happening in the case of a TS is on the order of about 2 or 3 in 10,000.

For those who are interested there are a couple of good books that I would recomend reading - "True Selves" by Brown and Rounsley and "As Nature Made Him" by John Colapinto. The latter is the tragic story of the "Twins Case" that looks at the nature vs. nurture argument. The real tragedy here is that BOTH of the twins have subsequent to the book committed suicide. A truly sad story but also very revealing about why you are what you are.

[Rachel_740]

Hi Girls,

This is an ideal thread to put a posting in, where I was going to start a new thread.

I went to see my doc. in London today (drove instead of using the train, for a change) and while in his waiting room another client came in and I thought to myself she is dressed in mens clothes, but she did sound a bit feminine. I couldn't really believe that I was right, so I had a slightly better look, and sure enough, she was in guys clothes from the shoes upward.

I dismissed it then as everyone is at a different stage anyway.

After about 5 minutes it suddenly dawned on me - you stupid bitch, HE is in mens clothes because HE is F 2 M.

I can be a really dopey cow sometimes .

Anne

[crispy]

............ having breasts would still be just as desireable.

you're not wrong, I cherish mine.

[Like2BAspen]

Gals-- many, many good points! Thank you for your thoughts.

As you know, someday science will be able to identify serious maladies in the unborn and treat them prior to birth. I can't help but wonder that if predictors for TS are discovered, will chemical/DNA treatments be made available to parents to alter the sex while the fetus is still in the womb? That would save a lot of trouble, misery, expense, and dissapointment.
I know--- you think I'm dreaming and perhaps a bit nutty. But someday, all this could be so preventable. The technology will eventually be there to preclude so many problems. The question is-- will we use it?

In the year 2525 you can pick your kids from a long glass tube. Were those guys talking about helping us? I agree that what you are is predetermined but how we each cope with ourselves is a product our environment. There are a few gurlz here that have had mothers help and it has been accepted by most of their families and they are beautiful and probably don't have the emotional baggage as the rest of us.

[crispy]

why is MtF so prevalent?

isn't it all about

girls = sugar and spice and all things nice

and

boys = slugs and snails and puppydogs' tails ?

who can blame us for wanting to experience the nicer things in life ?