"Somewhere in Between"

[Nicki B]

Do you really think I'm an extremist? I think if I were truly extreme, I wouldn't be able to get along with genderqueer friends and I wouldn't be asking these questions.

Perhaps you had your tongue in your cheek, when you wrote that... I was intending to indicate (from your self-description) that you seem to sit at one extreme of the range? A strong binary view is not uncommon among the post-op TSs I know - that's what they strongly need to be?

Anyway, I'd still be interested in your feedback on the second half of my post. Which is what I'm actually trying to obtain more insight on - I know there are trans females who identify entirely as women and non-dysphoric crossdressers who identify entirely as men, I'm looking for more insight into those who *don't* fall completely into either of those categories.

In that case, I can really only speak for myself? But I have discussed this, f2f, with a lot of transpeople, and the view I have come to is there are really only two useful labels? Transgender, as a catch-all term for all of us with some degree of dysphoria, and TS, as a subset, indicating those who need some form of medical intervention. Any further subdivision always leads to arguments and hurt - and together we may stand, but divided we will certainly fall?



Now, to offer something more contentious - for someone who feels more comfortable in women's clothing and, in particular, projecting a female image - can they really say they have absolutely no dysphoria, at all?

[Valeria]

Now, to offer something more contentious - for someone who feels more comfortable in women's clothing and, in particular, projecting a female image - can they really say they have absolutely no dysphoria, at all?

I'm not sure there are many of us here that have transitioned far enough to answer this question, so I'm not sure that it's all going to be all that contentious. I think I'm the only fairly regular poster here who has had FFS and SRS, and who also interacts pretty exclusively with people who do not know my past in daily life (though there are may be some lurkers in a similar position) - so there may not be many people in a position to really answer this question.

I think there are really *two* questions here. Do I feel any dysphoria, and do I harbor any harbor any latent dysphoric feelings?

Taking the second question first, I think the answer is obviously yes. If aliens were to abduct me and masculinize my body and change my sex to male, it would obviously bother me greatly. I think it would bother me in a different way than before - I'm so much more secure in my womanhood than I used to be a long time ago, that I think I'd view myself just as a victimized woman. But I assume it would still bother me.

However, I think the first question is much more relevant, and I think for me the answer really is mostly no. For the most part, I think that my dysphoric feelings can be divided into two categories - dysphoria about my social role and dysphoria about my anatomy.

My body dysphoria has been pretty well eliminated through a combination of hormones and surgery. I can look in a mirror, whether nude or in a bikini, and not be ashamed or unhappy about what I see. In fact, I like my body quite a bit - it's not bad at all for a woman my age. I wish my tummy were flatter, but that's not gender dysphoria, that's just a woman wishing she were more "perfect". Perhaps more to the point, when I look in the mirror (even first thing in the morning), I just see a woman looking back at me. I'm not sure that everyone ever reaches such a level of body comfort - I was kind of lucky with regard to little masculinization to begin with. But it is possible.

Similarly, my social dysphoria is pretty well eliminated. I don't want to advocate that everyone that transitions should restart their life as completely as I did (not just changing jobs, but going back to university and changing careers). But I think it's hard to eliminate this form of dysphoria completely if you are surrounded by people that know your history and give you constant reminders that you are "special". Also, I don't like to place emphasis on being able to get gendered as female consistently in daily life as being essential, but I think that never getting misgendered probably helps me a lot.

I don't know that the descriptor "feels more comfortable in women's clothing" is even applicable to me at this point. Clothes don't have much significance to me. My clothing is pretty much designed for females, but that's mostly utilitarian - it fits better and makes me look more attractive. I prefer women's t-shirts to men's t-shirts because they are tailored more and are less baggy around the waist. Women's jeans also fit me better, and women's sandals are just plain more attractive. I do wear a bra during the day, but that's mostly because going up and down stairs or working out without wearing a bra hurts. I generally strip it off as soon as I get home. I sometimes wear "male" t-shirts or jackets that I like. I've often had to wear gender-neutral work uniforms, sometimes including tops that were really men's clothing, and it didn't bother me at all. I'm female regardless of what I wear, and I'm secure enough for clothing to not erode my self-perception.

Anyway, I'm not sure that I place any more significance on clothing than any other woman. My criteria for what to wear are pretty much indistinguishable from those of my life partner.

After a while, as you get more comfortable with who you are, in my experience your viewpoints on a lot of things really do evolve quite a bit.

[AmberTG]

This has been a really interesting discussion so far! It's interesting to see how different people describe what amounts to the same issues, using the language and words each person has assigned to the various degrees of the TG spectrum. Personally, I find myself somewhere in the middle, with a decided lean to the female side. I have no clear label for it, I just call it Trans-gendered. With the changes in my body due to HRT, I may have to revise that to Trans-sexual, although I don't care for that description very much.
My primary issue is that I don't identify as female, but I don't identify as male either. I'm just me on the inside.

I really hope this doesn't turn into a mud-slinging contest, we need to be able to discuss these things in a rational manner, wouldn't you agree?

[bgirl]

I really hope this doesn't turn into a mud-slinging contest, we need to be able to discuss these things in a rational manner, wouldn't you agree?

Maybe if we use the right mud.......I could use a facial!

[AmberTG]

Now, to offer something more contentious - for someone who feels more comfortable in women's clothing and, in particular, projecting a female image - can they really say they have absolutely no dysphoria, at all?

I'll bet there's a lot of different answers to this question, and they vary by who you ask.

[Nicki B]

I don't know that the descriptor "feels more comfortable in women's clothing" is even applicable to me at this point.

Sorry - I'd actually intended that last para of mine as a question more to those who particularly define themselves as 'crossdressers'.. I obviously should have made that clearer.

[MarinaTwelve200]

Marina, have you met many others who identify as you do? And I think I've asked you before - why do you think your need is to escape specifically to a female persona?

I have heard from quite a few who are like me. It is my opinion that about HALF of us are escapist types, but we are not as vocal as the more "classic" "fem side" CDers, so we may not seem to be as numerous.

Why do I feel a "need" to escape to a female persona?----Its not really a "need" but rather a DISCOVERY---a very good feeling I got when I first experimented with CD as a 12 year old--out of simple curiosity.---So I kept doing it. It was many years later when I figgured out just WHAT I was doing. It seems that the female persona is "as far away as I can get" from my normal MALE persona.----The ESCAPE feels so good it has become a habbit, something I do to releive my stresses---something that works better than any thing else I know.

[Vanessac48]

I can throw in my 2-cents worth. I have dressed on and off for 30 yrs+, and never once thought about being a full-time woman, or crossing over, so to speak. I did it out of desire at first, and as time went on, and I got better, and learned new tricks, I looked better and better. It is pure fantasy and amazement for me, and I love the illusion. I'm very much a man, have no issues with being one, just happen to love the illusion I can create. I feel like a sculptor. Give me the right tools, and lots of practice, and I can build a masterpiece for my own enjoyment, then tear it down, until I decide to build another. I'll go a year without dressing as a woman, then I'll go 4 days in a row dressing like one. It's more of an amazing hobby, of beautiful art, and I'm the painter.