Walk Like a Man, Talk Like a Man

[CaptLex]

Inspired by the MtF section thread on pretending to be a man (and a recent friendly discussion - you know who you are ), I was wondering how many here in the Transmasculine section feel pressure to walk, talk, sit, or otherwise behave a certain way that may not feel totally natural in order to pass, "prove" or convince others that we have male (if not entirely masculine) tendencies? Anybody know what I'm talking about? I think this is bound to happen more as one transitions.

In my case, for example, I get comments sometimes about clothing color ("is that a pink shirt?") or other things ("real guys don't use sunscreen") that really have nothing to do with gender, and are based mostly on stereotypes. And I'll admit that I have from time to time played along with some of it because I'm tired of being read - like trying to be conscious of whether I fold my hands on the train ride home.

Anyone else?

[BadassBabyBrother]

Hey, I get to pop yet ANOTHER thread cherry? YAY! *victory dance*

Oh yeah. Most of the times these things come naturally to me, but I too have a habit of folding my hands in my lap whilst on a bus and more often than not I keep my legs crossed, not with my ankle over my knee, but my thigh over the other, if you know what I mean. Bloody annoying, but hey, what can you do... Also, I believe, though I cannot be completely sure, that after I started wearing that kohl on occasions, people think that I'm either a lesbian or otherwise a female more than they do when I'm not wearing any. Doesn't really bother me when no-one says anything about it, but it's still disturbing.

[Leo Lane]

more often than not I keep my legs crossed, not with my ankle over my knee, but my thigh over the other, if you know what I mean.

Once upon a time that was a common habit of Victorian/Edwardian upper-class young men. Pretty arbitrary, these gender conventions, eh?

CaptLex, you're right that this kind of thing is more of a problem as one transitions. I'm not really out to anyone so I have the opposite problem: act girly enough often enough to keep my mum quiet and avoid being mistaken for a butch lesbian. I don't like doing it at all, at all.

I bet that a lot of genetic guys have just the same problem: suppress some natural habits to look macho/not 'queer'. With us, though, the pressure may be greater, since it's so very important to us to have other people accept us as male.

[Cai]

I tend to "perch" on chairs, with one leg tucked either under or in front of me. It's not a gender thing - I'm so short that in most chairs my feet can't comfortably rest on the floor. But it's not particularly masculine, so when I think of it I shift position.

I also try to watch my excitement level. My voice tends to jump in pitch if I'm excited about something, so I work to prevent that.

ETA:

I'm not really out to anyone so I have the opposite problem: act girly enough often enough to keep my mum quiet and avoid being mistaken for a butch lesbian. I don't like doing it at all, at all.

That too. When I go all femmed up to competitions, I have to remind myself to behave in a more feminine manner. Because of the formal environment, gender conventions tend to be more obvious (for example, the guys always open the doors, and it becomes awkward if I forget to let them). My hair doesn't have a feminine styling option anymore, so that's difficult too.

[mistunderstood]

I have been dressing for so long I just let it ride in my behavor. If I want to cross my arms I cross my arms if I want to take up a lot of room when I sit I just do it.

[ZenFrost]

I think I've given up on trying to act more manly than I am. I know I have some very feminine behaviors which are learned because I was raised as a girl, but I'm fine with being a femmy guy. So if I'm doing something that is hindering my passing, I try to make up for it by being really confidant in my maleness and that manifests in my body language as a sort of counter to my female behaviors, but I don't try to stop the female behaviors altogether.

[Kieron Andrew]

I was wondering how many here in the Transmasculine section feel pressure to walk, talk, sit, or otherwise behave a certain way that may not feel totally natural in order to pass, "prove" or convince others that we have male (if not entirely masculine) tendencies? Anybody know what I'm talking about? I think this is bound to happen more as one transitions.

Yes i do know what you are talking about Lex...and i think i went from 'trying to hard' to give off male signals from a totally laid back approach of 'i dont care, i know who i am', so i dont consciously think about it now, i just get on with it...since doing that i think im more successful at giving the right signals across ....i wouldn't know for sure though you would have to ask someone or make that assessment for yourself lol...(i dont think im always successful, but now i just dont care enough what others think)

[Syr_SwitchyGQ]

Yes i do know what you are talking about Lex...and i think i went from 'trying to hard' to give off male signals from a totally laid back approach of 'i dont care, i know who i am', so i dont consciously think about it now, i just get on with it...since doing that i think im more successful at giving the right signals across ....i wouldn't know for sure though you would have to ask someone or make that assessment for yourself lol...(i dont think im always successful, but now i just dont care enough what others think)

That's pretty much exactly what happened with me. I used to work really hard to be manly... now I'm just like f*** it. I am who I am... and since I'm a little gay boy anyway, it doesn't matter if I'm a little effeminate

[SirTrey]

Anyone else?

Dude, you know what I do....we had that talk once down by the seaport, remember? For right now, if I want to keep My hair (which will go well eventually with facial hair, but I don't have any yet), I don't pass....Because I don't, I go to the adnrogynous middle.....and I do confuse people sometimes....My mannerisms are very male naturally, but I don't think I read lesbian, either.....Now My moustache is thicker, My body is bulking, My shape is changing, and My face is squaring off, and I wear nothing female as far as clothing and haven't for years...so I get more odd looks....when I have facial hair on My chin, I will cross over and do a whole different thing...but for now, I am not uncomfortable in the androgynous middle.....It doesn't make Me feel any less manly....I know what I am....I don't care anymore how people read Me...I have T.....and that's all that matters....I am GETTING there!

[Felix]

I think I've always sat with my legs open and if I do cross them I nearly always put one foot on the opposite knee. I used get comments when I was younger like thats not ladylike and I've always said I've never professed to being a lady lol!! I did go through a phase where I did my hair a particular way to look more boyish but now can't be bothered cos don't seem to have a problem passing well except for my stupid voice at times which gives me away. I've always walked like a man I know that from comments too. So don't think I try it just is naturally. Suppose that makes me lucky in many respects. I've always shook hands in the same way as a man feels wrong any other way and been told I have a better shake than some men I know. I must admit I do dance like a gay man always have so it could be said I'm quite camp at times but I'm not a gay man just another part of me. xx Felix

[DanielMacBride]

You know, this very topic came up in therapy yesterday, and I told My therapist that one of the things I have discovered that I LOVE about being trans is that it gives Me licence to express EVERY aspect of My personality and flout the gender "norms" so to speak. My personality can ride ANY part of the spectrum - one day I can be your average Joe with a beer in one hand and TV remote in the other yelling at the football LOL, the next I am a FFFFFFFFABULOUS trannyboy and flaunting it.....and everything in between! I am a very complex and multifaceted man anyway, and I kind of feel like since I have come out I have given Myself permission to express whatever wants to be expressed in Me at any given point.

So some days I can be very masculine (to the point where My GM friends go "dude, you are SO manly" LOL) and some days I can be almost a femmy gayboy type - to Me it's all masculine and all who I am so who CARES what others think?? I don't (and shouldn't) restrict the expression of My personality to the bits that others feel comfortable with or that they see as masculine rather than feminine - after all, I'm not *just* a man, I'm a TRANSman and that means I have a WAY broader spectrum of experience and feelings than your average GM, so why should I deny that and NOT express it?

Daniel (currently feeling very PROUD to be Me)

[metalguy639]

Interesting topic Lex To be honest I don't think there us anything that seems unsettling to me to do as a male. I have always sat kinda large so to speak like a guy (unless in a dress - but I rarely ever wore those my parents gave up when I was about 4 years old LOL), I've always had alot of the guy mannerisms so I do not find it hard to emulate them in any way. My sister brought up that I grabbed things in a femme way & counting money to a cashier was also kinda femme, so I have since changed those or at least try to.

[Zedster_The_Myuu]

Heh.. a bit late in replies.

I think everybody is pressured to do that sometime. But when I get the pressure to do that, I tell myself that most guys are pressured to do that, including those who aren't FTM. If they sit a certain way or walk a certain way, they get labeled or mistaken for as gay guys too.

[Drake]

At the moment, I'm not trying to pass. I'll get to that when I'm out of the house. I'm pretty confident in my guy mannerisms though. My parents and family always made comments about how masculine I acted, the way I sit, my preference in clothing, my tone of voice, my laugh too... I used to hate that I was so sensitive though, but now it doesn't matter anymore. I think a man is stronger if he has the courage to show his sensitive side.

[Fire Falcon]

My text.

Since I've started to transition, I have to try very hard not to add too many smiley faces to my e-mails, blog posts, text, etc. For some reasons, it seems guys aren't supposed to

1. Have decent spelling.

2. Have decent grammar.

3. Use smiley faces or *actions*/-actions/::actions::.

-_-; Argh. It's annoying as hades to police my words, but if I don't people definitely seem to treat me as a girl online.

[metalguy639]

My text.

Since I've started to transition, I have to try very hard not to add too many smiley faces to my e-mails, blog posts, text, etc. For some reasons, it seems guys aren't supposed to

1. Have decent spelling.

2. Have decent grammar.

3. Use smiley faces or *actions*/-actions/::actions::.

-_-; Argh. It's annoying as hades to police my words, but if I don't people definitely seem to treat me as a girl online.

Not all men have problems spelling LOL. Some can spell fine & have good grammar to a point so that is an ok thing IMO. As for the smiley faces I've seen that also about men do not use as many as women on forums or other places.

[Cai]

My text.

Since I've started to transition, I have to try very hard not to add too many smiley faces to my e-mails, blog posts, text, etc. For some reasons, it seems guys aren't supposed to

1. Have decent spelling.

2. Have decent grammar.

3. Use smiley faces or *actions*/-actions/::actions::.

-_-; Argh. It's annoying as hades to police my words, but if I don't people definitely seem to treat me as a girl online.

I don't find it to be worth it, to change my personality to convince others. I tell them who I am, and if they don't believe me, that's their problem.

[ZenFrost]

it seems guys aren't supposed to

1. Have decent spelling.

2. Have decent grammar.

That seems like more of an individual thing to me, I try to have good grammar and spelling but don't sweat it if I don't. And I've known plenty of women who were dyslexic and had worse spelling than just about anyone. So I figure that trying to tell someone's gender through their writing isn't enough of a sure thing for me to stress over.

3. Use smiley faces or *actions*/-actions/::actions::.

Welcome to the transmen section, we do a lot of that here.

[Fire Falcon]

In reference to the "apparently guys aren't supposed to" part of my text...

... I know that not all guys are horrible spellers with no punctuation and a dead serious tone. xD Just to get that out of the way, in case that's how I came off.

I think most people, male OR female, have a rather poor grasp on the English language once they log online... for some reason. O.o; My mom is a writer, and a good one at that, but holy hell... you put her in a chatroom and she sucks. xD;

Curiouser and curiouser.

[metalguy639]

In reference to the "apparently guys aren't supposed to" part of my text...

... I know that not all guys are horrible spellers with no punctuation and a dead serious tone. xD Just to get that out of the way, in case that's how I came off.

I think most people, male OR female, have a rather poor grasp on the English language once they log online... for some reason. O.o; My mom is a writer, and a good one at that, but holy hell... you put her in a chatroom and she sucks. xD;

Curiouser and curiouser.

I think I see what you are saying. Personally its really annoying for me to talk to someone onlione and I get messages like this...


r u goin 2 de show?


Geez! that's not english is it? LOL

[happyfish]

I used to care a lot about whether or not I did something 'like a guy.' Eventually I realized that everyone does everything differently and I see no reason why I should change the way I do things just so I fit into this idea of how a 'real guy' is supposed to act.
Personally, I find it really annoying when people who have the ability to use proper spelling and grammar just don't. Especially if they think it makes them cooler to do so.

[boi_0h]

Yeah, I definitely feel compelled to act like what I consider the stereotypical man, to insure that i'm passing better, I try not to, I just keep telling myself--no matter what you know you're a man, it doesn't matter how you act...you just are.

[gennee]

[SIZE="4"]Many people seem to think one has to have a certain look to be acceptable instead of accepting someone who is different. People are different and I loooove the differences. There's so much variety out there and it should be celebrated.

Gennee[/SIZE]

[Taylor105]

Inspired by the MtF section thread on pretending to be a man (and a recent friendly discussion - you know who you are ), I was wondering how many here in the Transmasculine section feel pressure to walk, talk, sit, or otherwise behave a certain way that may not feel totally natural in order to pass, "prove" or convince others that we have male (if not entirely masculine) tendencies? Anybody know what I'm talking about? I think this is bound to happen more as one transitions.

In my case, for example, I get comments sometimes about clothing color ("is that a pink shirt?") or other things ("real guys don't use sunscreen") that really have nothing to do with gender, and are based mostly on stereotypes. And I'll admit that I have from time to time played along with some of it because I'm tired of being read - like trying to be conscious of whether I fold my hands on the train ride home.

Anyone else?

If REAL guys don't wear sunscreen, then all the REAL guys can enjoy skin cancer. lol

[Punkster]

I guess my personal opinion is you are who you are....mostly am very masculine but have a few feminine habits but at the end of the day these are just stereotypes and hell if I dont pass I dont.

I know who I am, some people will accept it and others wont so what the hell. The only thing that truly gives me away is my voice but again I dont sweat it because thats something that will change eventually.