True femininity, what does it mean for you?

[DemonicDaughter]

A recent discussion provoked this question in my head and its been rambling around in there for a few days.

Seems to me we have a lot of posts on here regarding what GGs wear and do in comparison to CDers. Now I find it funny that many CDers state they love being "girly" yet threads about GGs not being feminine spring up often. This sort of leads to the idea of what exactly do some of these posters consider "feminine" and where do these ideas develop. If they don't consider women being feminine, they why are they presenting as one?

In other words... is it really that you wish to present as a woman or that you are defining your own image of feminine?

What exactly do you consider feminine?

Where did you develop this idea?

Is there a particular individual who personified femininity for you? (Though using a famous person is fine but I would like you to offer the role they played that made them appear feminine to you.)

Do you express this femininity in ways other than clothing? If yes, how so? If no, why?

Would/do you date a partner that is more/less/equally as feminine as you? Do you prefer them more or less feminine? How do you feel they could be more/less feminine?

*DISCLAIMER: These questions are NOT directed to any one thread nor individual. They are NOT meant to imply anything other than a genuine question with the desire to understand how others feel. I DON'T WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU FIND WRONG WITH ANY PARTICULAR GROUP OF PEOPLE! I want to hear an individual and personal account of femininity. THAT'S IT!

[Kate Simmons]

Gosh DD, I think that may be an individual call. Who is to say what femininity is or masculinity for that matter? We've seen how folks act during our lives if they are genetically one or the other but I think really a lot of it is intrinsic. I personally think of femininity as caring for others such as family in a nurturing way and it has nothing to do with appearance per se. There is a definate quality of it that is positive. Even so, men can develop this quality as well although they may not want to admit it possibly due to peer pressure in many cases. I think a lot of us try to grasp the essense of that in our own limited way and some of us have succeeded in that respect and some not. Really it's about being a person. My philosophy is just be yourself. The less we try to attempt to fulfill some kind of image, the better off we are and that is when we find true freedom.

[Jamie S.]

I act exactly the same way as I do when I'm male pretty much. I'm just happier "being" a female.

[Emily Anderson]

For me it's all about the appearance, clothes, accessories, and mannerisms which are typically associated with females. As far as intellect, morals, behaviour etc. are concerned, I believe the same qualities can be found in both males and females.

To me, anything "feminine" is what is likely to get you in trouble with your mates down at the pub

[Sophia KT]

For me it is about being relaxed and unhurried; being dressed to look nice, as opposed to for a practical purpose. I took it all in from women, in real life and films, etc. that I found attractive. I'm afraid that I am terribly vain and shallow about this.

Fem personified? for me is the classic lady [of a certain profession] from a wild west bar.

[Deborah Jane]

Difficult question DD on many differant levels!!
With me it,s as much about the clothing, the makeup and the whole trying to be as girly as i can manage, as anything else.
I think sometimes i just need to release the "inner tart" to come out and play

When i,m not dressed as Debs, i,m just an average guy..I doubt anyone would guess my "little secret".

Dating?? Any woman who was willing to accept me as i am, i would be happy with...No more pretending i can stop c/ding!!

[docrobbysherry]

Women r; sweet, sypathetic, understanding, considerate, emotional, occassionally unreasonable, and to me, completely unrational!

Pretty much everything I'm NOT!

The only way I can appear to be womanlike is, in my pics!

[Angie G]

My wife is very feminine and I love it that way. And there are a lot of gg's out there that are also very feminine and dress like it.
I do express my self as feminine by siting when using the restroom siting with my knees together crossing my legs at the knee keeping my nails polished(clear mat finich.)
Angie

[harmony]

wow dd!what a deep question!my respect for you increases even more!
the worship of femininity is one of the oldest cults in the world.(isis sophia mary magdalen)
it keeps our world from destroying itself.
it is creation-birth-embracing-nurturing-a home for the male hunter to return to and feel safe-roundness-softness.
women are physicaly equipt to express this and some manage .
as a genetic male i need this balance and my awareness of this drives me to even physically express this by aligning my outer shell with the needs of my soul.lovemaking is in essence praying at the altar of femininity to become whole in ideally having a simultaniuos orgasm.
the world has become a hard and greedy place getting divorced from what is essential in its unrestricted hunt for power and riches-true femininity would balance this and this could be our task .
a woman who projects the full complement of femininty i call a full blooded woman-it is a rare thing and when i see it i absolutly adore it.

[Joanne f]

Hum to many questions at once for my little brain to cope with but i will have a go at a few
Femininity to me has nothing to do with the clothes although i will admit that some types of material feel more feminine than others due to movement and feel which is what i think makes a woman feminine, it is the movement of their hands and arms the way their fingers move and the way they walk it is all like a flowing graceful movement that men just do not have, a bit like tall grass swaying gently in the breeze were as a man is a bit like an oak tree not moving for anything , then there is the voice soft and gentle, i might some times want to be a woman but there is no way i could ever be feminine like that it is unique to FAB,
who do i like well i can`t think of any that you would know but they would be a bit like Cher when she was real ( not plastic) Mini Driver and Morticia from the Adams family.
If i could express this femininity in any way i would try with the hands first as it is this movement that has me spell bound .
Just thought that i would try and explain why i think it has very little to do with the clothes, doe`s a woman loose her femininity if she has very little clothes on (and i am not trying to be rude )or you could put a feminine woman in an old sack bag and she will still be feminine, i think that some times style can be mistaken for femininity the two are not the same


joanne

[KayR]

I always think of myself as a male. Whilst I don't try and effect a female "style" I accept - and enjoy the fact that I can't suddenly leap out of the chair when I'm wearing high heels and a fitted dress. I also try and walk in a more "elegant" (?) way when dressed - not hitching my leg up on the spindle of a bar stool, for example.
There is a young lady presenter here on BBC-UK television called Christine Blakeley. The show is at 7.00pm GMT Mon-Fri. Not only is she gorgeous looking, but she seems to exude femininity. She also wears some lovely clothes, and clearly loves high heels!

[JessieB]

In other words... is it really that you wish to present as a woman or that you are defining your own image of feminine? ... What exactly do you consider feminine? ... Where did you develop this idea? ... Is there a particular individual who personified femininity for you?

You pose some of the most interesting questions I've seen here in a long time. This ought to develop into a great thread. For starters, I'd like to tackle one set of your questions that seem to be interrelated.

First, I think most of us feel like we need to go to great lengths in our dressing in order to overcome our masculine features. While some might be satisfied with something more akin to androgyny, the majority want to present as decidedly feminine, which requires a very thorough transformation, including very feminine clothing. Even then we barely pull it off, but to the extent we do, we love the trans-formative effect on our own appearance and the way we feel.

I think most CDers are also projecting what they find attractive about women, at least physically. We obviously love the female physique and appearance (even the gay CDs). We love your curvy body and your soft features and your sexiness, and we try as best we can to emulate that which we love. We are also communicating how much we love the way women's clothing (and hair and makeup and etc) plays up your beauty and sex appeal. Men are very visual creatures, so naturally we love styles that are revealing and flattering of the feminine form, and that accentuate the difference between the genders. This has always been and always will be true.

This of course begs the question, as you have touched upon, of what shapes our notion(s) of what constitutes feminine allure. To a great extent, our cultures shape our perceptions. For example, those of us of a certain age grew up around women who were extremely feminine in the way they dressed and behaved, so it's only natural for us to relate to such styles. Whether it was pencil skirts or petticoats or mini skirts or hot pants or hiphuggers, we tend to relate viscerally to the styles that were in vogue as we came of age and started chasing girls. (Some of us "outgrow" that as we age, some of us don't.)

I think, too, that individuals can influence us very strongly. It might be a celebrity or a sex symbol or a person from our own lives. The mini-skirted girls of my high school and college days forever burned that preference into my brain and libido. And, I often notice that a woman in my life later on profoundly influenced my perception of "female" -- both in appearance and behavior -- and shaped to some degree my own self-perception as a CD.

And as I've touched on here and there, there is the undeniable sexuality of dressing. CDing doesn't always have to be about sex, but that's how most of us got started and for most of us there will always be an element of sexuality about dressing. Not only do we find a woman dressed femininely very stimulating, we have discovered how good it feels to actually wear those sort of clothes. It's just so much more sensuous than guy clothes, and we love the way it makes our legs or whatever look. It's a turn-on to see, and a turn-on to experience.

[Danielle1960]

I've been wondering for a few years now, and I think we consider femme the things that our gg doesn't provide?
After all women are the heroes of the silver screen and men are the bumbling idiots that can't do it if the heroine doesn't help. So after all these years we might need to ask are we pushing the envelope of femme development in ourselves because we have heroes? That are women?
Interesting thought. I find for me though, it is a way to leave the complex, logical, stressful, and back biting world of competition, that I'm required to work in. So for me it is the quite time that I allow me to swirl in emotional thoughts that man can't by him self.

[TGMarla]

Tough question for those of us that are not inherently feminine. I'm plenty feminine when I'm dressed, I guess, but otherwise, I'm just an average guy. I have guy pursuits, guy interests, and guy mannerisms. But I also love to peruse women's clothing and wear pretty and feminine clothing. When dressed, many of the guy interests fade a bit, and my more feminine interests come to the forefront. Mind you, this still doesn't lower itself to the level of watching the Lifetime Channel. I walk differently, my arms and hand gestures become more like those of a woman, and they do this almost unconciously. I really don't obsess about attaining the feminine ideal for myself. I am who and what I am, and I'm not real dissatisfied with that. Since I have no plans at present to take Marla to the general public, I care little just how feminine I am at any given time. I'll let my pics and my posts speak for themselves.

As for an individual who personifies femininity to me, I'll point to Jaqueline Smith, who played Kelly (I think) in the original Charlie's Angels television show. Bad show, but she was the epitome of a lovely, feminine lady to me.

Much of my desire to emulate women has to do with the clothing and the appearance. The rest of it eminates from that. I have a serious clothing monkey on my back, and I like to indulge in it and feed the monkey as often as possible without crippling my life in general too much. So I'm not a real feminine guy, but I am a rather feminine crossdresser, if that makes any sense.

[DemonicDaughter]

Some truly amazing answers! I think a lot of women, even those that fully accept and support cding, would find this interesting.

To us GGs, we weren't taught to be feminine with someone saying "this is feminine, that is feminine". We were merely emulating the women in our lives.

As a woman who grew up primarily with men, I found that being feminine was, in essence, being sensual. The more sensual the movements, tone of voice, actions, etc. the more feminine one seemed to appear. I was curious if this held true for cders. Now, I firmly believe that there is a HUGE difference in something being sensual and something being sexual. Because of this, I could understand cding for both reasons. Sensuality often leads to sexuality and thus the fetish side of cding. But even just the sensuality has enough appeal all on its own.

I happen to love the sensuality of corsets, silks, lace and satin. I could understand anybody's obsession with them.

Answers like all of yours sort of helps a GG understand that you aren't looking so much to replace a woman in your life, but more simply making your life more soothing. I like that idea.

[KayR]

Yes, I think I understand your point of view. I retain my maleness, as mentioned above, but I do notice that many of my contemporaries adopt a "female" personna once dressed. At the last years Northern Concord weekend, I was shocked to be kissed on the cheek by another CDer who I hadn't seen for a year. I didnt like it (bloke attitude), but he/she must have thought it appropriate whilst in female mode.
For my part, I would feel phoney if I adopted a female level of tactile response. I am naturally a "touchy-feely" person, but within male boundaries. I remain so when dressed. Yet, I envy the clearly open and natural level of physical contact and response that women convey. It is a normal thing for women to operate on this level, I feel. However, culture and social norms will often dictate just exactly how far males can go. When I first went to Turkey, for example, I was surprised to see Turkish men openly embrace each other, and other Turkish men walking hand-in-hand in broad daylight. Not because they were having any sort of gender crsis, but because their culture sees nothing wrong in their behaving in this manner.

[Wendy me]

[QUOTE=DemonicDaughter;1289798]A recent discussion provoked this question in my head and its been rambling around in there for a few day

In other words... is it really that you wish to present as a woman or that you are defining your own image of feminine?

i try just to be me and i don't think there is a true "image of feminine" as a women can be feminine all done up to the 9's or a mom at home with the kids in sweats .... to me it's being comfy in what your wearing as well as who you are........

What exactly do you consider feminine?

confidence just being comfy in your own skin...........



Where did you develop this idea?


lol a life lesson lol.......



Is there a particular individual who personified femininity for you? (Though using a famous person is fine but I would like you to offer the role they played that made them appear feminine to you.)


like i said it could be someone dressed all decked out or in sweats hair a mess and just have that look that they are cofedent..........

Do you express this femininity in ways other than clothing? If yes, how so? If no, why?


i like to think i do when i dress i tend to wear and be someone that i am comfy being and not try to "play a part"......




Would/do you date a partner that is more/less/equally as feminine as you? Do you prefer them more or less feminine? How do you feel they could be more/less feminine?

my wife is feminine but not overly girlie ....... what i might like her to wear and what she likes might differ some ... i love her so i accept her choices..........

[christync]

A recent discussion provoked this question in my head and its been rambling around in there for a few days.

Seems to me we have a lot of posts on here regarding what GGs wear and do in comparison to CDers. Now I find it funny that many CDers state they love being "girly" yet threads about GGs not being feminine spring up often. This sort of leads to the idea of what exactly do some of these posters consider "feminine" and where do these ideas develop. If they don't consider women being feminine, they why are they presenting as one?

In other words... is it really that you wish to present as a woman or that you are defining your own image of feminine?

What exactly do you consider feminine?

Where did you develop this idea?

Is there a particular individual who personified femininity for you? (Though using a famous person is fine but I would like you to offer the role they played that made them appear feminine to you.)

Do you express this femininity in ways other than clothing? If yes, how so? If no, why?

Would/do you date a partner that is more/less/equally as feminine as you? Do you prefer them more or less feminine? How do you feel they could be more/less feminine?

*DISCLAIMER: These questions are NOT directed to any one thread nor individual. They are NOT meant to imply anything other than a genuine question with the desire to understand how others feel. I DON'T WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU FIND WRONG WITH ANY PARTICULAR GROUP OF PEOPLE! I want to hear an individual and personal account of femininity. THAT'S IT!

I think that femininity is different things to different people, the same as crossdressing. My dressing in the '70's when I was in my 20s was, to a somewhat extent sexual. Not so much anymore. In fact, I find it better when it is not, but just a part of my lifestyle. Even still, that is so subjective. Just spending my evenings as a T-Girl is very satisfying. I enjoy sitting outside and reading the newspaper and noticing how I look in my peripheral vision and identifying myself with the feminine gender. Gender is not black and white.

Chris

[TGMarla]

I firmly believe that there is a HUGE difference in something being sensual and something being sexual......Sensuality often leads to sexuality...... But even just the sensuality has enough appeal all on its own.

Just hit the nail on the head right there, DD. The two are closely related. I have always found many of the things women wear to be very sensual, and that has always attracted me sexually. I find it equally, if not more, sensual to dress myself this way as well. I find the whole process very sensual, and well...one thing can lead to another, as they say. It's not hard to connect the dots, is it?

[CharleneCD]

To us GGs, we weren't taught to be feminine with someone saying "this is feminine, that is feminine". We were merely emulating the women in our lives.

As a woman who grew up primarily with men, I found that being feminine was, in essence, being sensual. The more sensual the movements, tone of voice, actions, etc. the more feminine one seemed to appear. .

Great question DD, You have asked some good ones lately.

For me femininity is much more than dressing. Just watching two tables, one with men and one with women you can get a good idea of the differences. This is a good example of when you say we emulate what we see in our own sex. Women interact so much more differently than men. You will never see men hugging each other and touching like women do.

Although I think there is more to it. The generalized attitude of compasion and caring is much more prevalent in women. Women nurture, men just support or teach.

Lastly I see your point with sensuality. Women just move better than men. I got a good example of this when out dancing enfemme. Watching myself dancing in a mirror just looked wrong. The movements just werent there for me. I could have had a perfect look, but still been clocked as soon as anyone saw me dancing. LOL

[MJ]

In other words...A) is it really that you wish to present as a woman or B)that you are defining your own image of feminine?

i will try to answer the questions ----part a) i do wish to present myself as a woman but growing up and being socialized as a man makes this very hard ..
B) i am trying to re create myself in my own image of what i perceive a typical woman is ..
This is hard to do filtering out the guy stuff , and trying to be me ..

What exactly do you consider feminine?

for me the typical look you see in most books i would very much like to be very thin like most models ..it helps with my height ..i bought in to the thin is in

Where did you develop this idea?

mostly from the media i don't need to spell it out it's everywhere

Is there a particular individual who personified femininity for you? (Though using a famous person is fine but I would like you to offer the role they played that made them appear feminine to you.)

Angelina Jolie i find very feminine there are many movies but i guess my favorites are tomb raider and life or something like it .. this is tough to answer but i find her sexy .. and a loving caring woman

Do you express this femininity in ways other than clothing? If yes, how so? If no, why?

yes well i try to incorporate femininity in my actions. but i find this difficult without a partner to help ..

Would/do you date a partner that is more/less/equally as feminine as you? Do you prefer them more or less feminine? How do you feel they could be more/less feminine?

I would love to date a partner that is more or equal to me . there is nothing wrong with a girlie ..girl , and yes being honest up front ensures a relationship that lasts .. i hope

*DISCLAIMER: i am being honest here do not get upset due to my poor image of myself or woman in general i am stereo typical person

[LilSissyStevie]

What exactly do you consider feminine?

I can't define it, but I know it when I see it. (some smart guy said that about something once.)

Actually, it might have something to do with this:

[SIZE="4"]What are little girls made of?

What are little girls made of?
Sugar and spice,
And everything nice,
That's what little girls are made of.[/SIZE]

That's what formed my concept of femininity.

[Nicole Erin]

Honestly, I don't really know what is considered "masculine" or "feminine".
Gender barriers keep falling.

If I could wear my "feminine" clothes all the time I would.
I am me, I gave up trying to be Mr manly man a while back, it is just too much work.

[SarahLynn]

I have seen several answers here which point to the same source, and while they all agree on the point that it is a woman who is the object of their femininity i think they do not want to point to the greatest influance in their lives. That one woman who was there for them when they needed clean dipers, their hair combed for school, their toe nails clipped before getting new socks, a bath and washing behind the ears when they were too young to do it themselves. I point to our mothers or mother figures. An aunt, elder sister, next door neighbour, grandmother, etc. It is this person, for most of us, who had the greatest influance in whom we chose to emulate when dressing.

Now you may say it is some screen idle, but in truth i think it is a combination of that person and the lady previously mentioned. It will show in your style, your carriage, your presentation. My reasoning for this is to look at the styles we chose to wear.

For those who grew up in the fifties and sixties its hose and garters and girdles, dress suits and pencil skirts. For sixties and seventies it's pantyhose, and short skirts and tieback (or tie front) blouse, loose wear with lots of freedom. For the seventies and eighties its skorts and flashy blouses, not a lot of makeup but when it is worn it is understated. And so on.

And i think we want to make that person proud of us in our dressing. We want her to see us as an extention of herself. Her choices in clothes. Her styles. Her fashion sense. And i think we do this very well.

Naturally we "moved on" in style but were did we start. We started with Her. I like to think we have/had a good base for our own growth.

As for dating or aquireing a mate I think we all source to the person who was the greatest influance on our dressing. A girl just like mum, or mum figure. I know a man who so hated his father he insisted he'd never be like him. Wrong. He even married a lady just like his mother. I had to laugh to my self about that one.

SarahLynn

[deja true]

Seems to me we have a lot of posts on here regarding what GGs wear and do in comparison to CDers. Now I find it funny that many CDers state they love being "girly" yet threads about GGs not being feminine spring up often. This sort of leads to the idea of what exactly do some of these posters consider "feminine" and where do these ideas develop. If they don't consider women being feminine, they why are they presenting as one?

The desire to be 'girly' is an interesting one to me, too. Maybe we differ in definitions, but I really don't want to be 'girly'. I want to be 'womanly'. Mature and wise in thinking and calm and self-controlled in demeanor. Not quite accesible but sensuous ( as opposed to sexy) and inviting in appearance...

Where do these ideas come from? I think for most of us, our ideal is not so much that of any particular woman, but a combination of the traits we 've seen in our lives, whether in real life or in movies or in reading... Only a few have pointed to a particular woman that they view as an ideal. Our ideal woman seems to be many women.

The problem here, is that our exemplars are chosen for a single trait, a look, a movement, an attitude seen in an interview, a wardrobe choice. We look for and appropriate the best, but we ignore the rest. So the persona we invest ourselves in isn't really anything much like a real woman, but an iconic woman that represents the very best traits that we can imagine. We are indeed defining our own image of the feminine ideal.

It's no wonder that so many of us beat ourselves up and obsess so much about the perfection of presentation. But it's also fortunate that many of us also mature in our thinking, just as a girly, giggly teenager can ultimately mature into a self confident woman. We 'graduate' from obsessing over clothes and how attractive we are in them, to being comfortable with who we are no matter how dressed.

If we reach this 'comfortable' stage, we often give up on playing that ultra masculine role that so many of us have been playing for years. Notice how many who post regularly spend as much of their free time en femme as they can, how many express the desire to live 24/7 if they possibly could.

Feminine thinking, or our impression of feminine thinking, takes its place in our personalities. We don't just look at women, we analyze them, we judge their taste and presentation. We look appraisingly at clothes and jewelry and ads.

And yes, if we accept ourselves, we often expess our femininity in other ways. Physically by underdressing or hidden painted nails or tattoos or replacing our drab clothes with subtly feminine clothes. We adopt movements and gestures of a more feminine character. Or we communicate with others as women, not men.

I'm maturing. I can feel myself losing the fetishistic exhiliration of dressing, the immediate and demanding excitement of slipping my feet into heels or pulling the zipper up my back. It was fast. It was furious. And it always ended in guilt.

But now, as many here talk about, I'm comforted by my clothes. Soothed at the touch of soothing silk. Calmed by the aura of grace that's implicit in lace and color and floral scents. My dressing now lasts hours and always ends in regret and melancholy when I have to shed deja's outward finery. But there is no guilt any more. Only the sweet sad realization that I can't be all of me for another little while.