Not 100% Male or Female

[CaptLex]

I won't do a poll 'cause we know those get messed up by people who can't be bothered to read, but I'm curious to know how many feel this way amongst the female-bodied or intersexed population here.

I have received numerous PMs from female-bodied people here who don't identify as 100% female, and don't necessarily feel they fit in here in the FtM section because to them it seems that all the guys here are in transition or wish to be, and that's not what they're interested in. I get comments about not being sure where they fit in because they don't care which pronouns are used or necessarily want hormones or surgery, and they may not feel totally male, they just know they don't feel female.

Does that sound familiar to anyone? If so, I'd love to hear from you here. If the subject is too personal and you'd rather not discuss it publicly, that's understandable. You can PM me instead, but I think when people of a like mind see each other's words, it's a big help. I have a feeling that everyone in that boat feels that they may be the only one and maybe if we can talk about that here then people won't feel alone and isolated.

Again, this question is for anyone who was born physically female (or intersexed), but may feel they're somewhere outside the binary. I know there are some who don't feel 100% anything that were born male-bodied and that can be a separate thread if someone wants to do it, but I'm curious about female-born people who don't identify as GG and may not identify as FtM (but please don't put too much emphasis on said labels).

[Syr_SwitchyGQ]

Hmm... well... I've wrestled with this a lot. I do feel like I fit in with the guys because I am mostly male and very socially male. I do consider myself one of the guys, and I do consider myself ftm. That being said, I also have some very feminine aspects of my soul, and I am still up in the air about whether or not I want to do any physical alterations. At this point it isn't necessary because I can pass without them, but later down the road, that may not be the case. Ergo, I may change my mind as time goes on. At this point I am considering myself bigender, but living pretty full-time male with my friends, family and the public. *shrugs*

[wanttobejoe]

Yes, that definitely sounds familiar to me, Lex.

I couldn't care less about which pronoun people use to address me and I'm not at all interested in transitioning. This ofcourse means that a lot of the posts here aren't interesting to me, so I just tend to skip them.

[KimberlyS]

Lex, if I may, I feel very much like this but from the other side. While I consider myself a MTF, a MTFM (Male to Femme Male) may be a better description for myself for lack of a better one. I have a male body, well kind of mostly. And I do consider myself a male. I can not get into most of the girly type of things. Yet I do enjoy wear feminine clothes most days usually intermixed with my males clothes presenting male look. And while I do go out in "Full Femme" that is not my preference. I do a decent blending femme look. But I do not pretend to be female and most of those I interact with know I am male sooner or later. And usually soon after a good look at me or some interaction. I would rather forget the wig and makeup and just be out as a guy wearing a skirt or other femme clothes mixed and matched tastefully with male clothes. And I have no problems shopping for femme clothes as my male self. I can be dressed all male doing macho masculine things and feel feminine or I can be dressed all frilly and feminine and feel just like my male self.

I often feel like I fit in here as a CDer. I have even tried the "Guys wearing skirts" sites but feel even less like I fit in there. I have been in chats on other sites and hounded about why I would want to be a guy in a skirt and how terrible it looks. I would love a small set of breasts but not willing to take hormones or go under the knife to do it or any other changes.

I just consider myself a weird person. I usually use the MTF CD label, but gender confused person may be a better label. But hey use what you want, I do not care it is only for others' benefit I use labels. I preferred to be called a he/guy, but try to use the female ones around other TG's for their comfort. And I know I have used the wrong M/F pronouns for other CD/TG's without thinking probably making them upset with me. I try to use the ones based on their presentation.

We are on both sides.

[Syr_SwitchyGQ]

Some more thoughts on this....

Good question Lex, I've been thinking about it all day.

Recently I've been having a lot of trouble finding balance between my male side and my female side. Since I have both, it was very confusing for awhile and I would flip back and forth on a minute-to-minute basis. A very big part of the problem was that I wanted nothing more than to be one or the other. I wanted a box I could plant my feet firmly in and say, "Look... THIS is where I stand, this is who I am." It took awhile and a lot of soul-searching and asking myself some hard questions to finally realize that I don't fit into one box or the other. Took me long enough, but I finally took a good hard look in the mirror and realized that I had both and I would just have to live with that fact and find a way to balance them.

I realized that, being bigendered, I would have to draw some lines and territories for each; this would help me and others not get confused. I realized I had to give "her" her space, and "him" his space. So... since I am most comfortable socially being male, I let him be the more public face. I am him with my family, my friends, and the public. However... in a romantic/dating/relationship sort of way, I am very female and tend to do best when I can approach my partner from that angle. I think a lot of the problem I had in several of my relationships was that I felt like I had to be the guy I said I was when we were just friends. That didn't work. So... I am her in that regard, and him in all others. Those are my lines and what I am most comfortable with. Fortunately, I am in a situation right now where I can do that.

Hopefully that helps some people.... I know this is often shaky ground, and can feel lonely at times.... but balance IS possible and you don't have to choose one or the other just to make other people happy. You know?

[waspookie6]

Captn' Lex shoots one over the bow!
While it would be good to see more responses here, my guess is your PM box is going to fill up faster.

Tobias, while we can't find that one box fits all it's pretty difficult to live with a decision that doesn't affect other peoples lives so we are happy. Trying to balance everything at all times is virtually impossible. We may find times when that does work but eventually feel pushed from one side to the other still trying to create middle ground. Does that make any sense? (probably not, entry indicative of T shot coming up tomorrow).

[Syr_SwitchyGQ]

Tobias, while we can't find that one box fits all it's pretty difficult to live with a decision that doesn't affect other peoples lives so we are happy. Trying to balance everything at all times is virtually impossible. We may find times when that does work but eventually feel pushed from one side to the other still trying to create middle ground. Does that make any sense? (probably not, entry indicative of T shot coming up tomorrow).

Balance can be difficult, yes. And the solutions we find will never be perfect. However.... at least in my situation, I have to try and find something that is as close to right as possible and work it out from there. Won't always be easy, and I will have my off-days, I'm sure. But that doesn't mean we should have to give up a part of ourselves for other people... just my opinion.

[xTwo_Of_Heartsx]

I'm pretty genderqueer.. and I'm just coming to terms with that.
I don't fit the binary.. at all.
I have a side of me that likes to look at pretty dresses, shoes, and purses, when I hit the mall..
Most of my FTM friends don't understand it.. but it's just the way I am. I like pretty things sometimes.
Sometimes I'm very much a boy.. but others, I am very femmy.
I don't feel this makes me any less of a guy.. but some do.

[Wren]

Yeah I've never felt 100% female or male.

I used to feel more female, now I feel more comfortable male.

I always associated more in my mind with men, and that stands true even if my exterior is comfortable with being female at times.

I'd like to transcend gender and sexual orientation. It's like putting on a different shirt in the morning.. depends on my mood and surroundings.

And yeah.. I've always felt like I can't really relate to a lot of the feelings expressed on the board, a lot of general dislike or fear of people's female past, which i understand.
I just feel insensitive roaring in and talking about tampons.. or how awesome it is to be female some days. I dont' think i'd ever write that exactly, but i just avoid certain subjects entirely lest i accidentally say something lame like that.

[CaptLex]

Captn' Lex shoots one over the bow!
While it would be good to see more responses here, my guess is your PM box is going to fill up faster.

Surprisingly none yet. I'm glad to see responses here - I'd like to get a real dialogue going amongst all the ones I know have mentioned this to me privately.

I'd like people to see that they're not alone and that they shouldn't feel that this subject can't be brought up here.

Lex, if I may, I feel very much like this but from the other side.

Kimberly, your response is fine and if we get a few more from the other side it's okay too (it's always nice to know you're not alone, right?), but if the thread gets inundated with many more from the other side, then I think it would be more productive to make those responses a separate thread.

Tobias, I'm glad you've found a balance. I know it's hard because the world is geared so much to one side or the other.

Dom, it sounds like you know yourself well and have figured out what works for you too.

Joe and Wren, you can probably smell the testosterone in this section, huh? That's why I wanted to start this thread - I don't want you guys and any others in the same situation to feel left out.

[wanttobejoe]

The strangest thing I guess is that I do identify as a woman, but 9 times out of 10 when someone mentions something generic about women (women like shopping, women are bad at math, women are nurturing, etc.) it doesn't apply to me (and probably not to a lot of other women either).

Physically it's pretty clear I'm a woman, but even though I have large breasts and don't bind I still get addressed as Sir quite regularly. I guess there must be something masculine that shines through (and I don't think it's just the male/gender neutral clothes I wear).

Especially young kids peg me as male. For example my almost 4 year old nephew at the dinner table at my parents about two weeks ago. Nephew: "Grandpa, you're a boy right?". Grandpa: "Yes I am.". Nephew: "Aunt J. (insert my female name), you're also a boy, right?". Me: "No, I'm a girl.". Total disbelief, and a you got to be kidding look. He asked all the others at the table if I really was a girl, but even though they said I was, he thinks we were pulling a prank on him and is still convinced I'm a boy.

[waspookie6]

Thanks to Lex's support I'll give this a shot. There was a bribery of rum of course.
Hope it helps others share without feeling like they will get slapped with another label or worry other GG's and Cross Dressers they share with will stop taking them seriously. Sometimes it's a deal breaker - I'd like to think not.

Maybe it's time to stop trying so hard to be A female and start being A person. I'm happier A Gendered as I've always been, especially now not having to fuss with periods and all that from surgical menopause. This is not on a whim, it's been more clear and focused, my entire life I always felt far more comfortable in 'my' mode as opposed to body dictated mode.

In the past, guys were chased off by being "so independent" as they would say. The initial attraction was I could handle anything and everything without going to tears or falling apart but they missed me being submissive/clingy/needy/prissy/fussy - my mind just can't access that. It's hard work to try to pull off looking feminine as well as acting like it dressed up, my mannerisms and body language is more manly which has left a feeling of being stuck in the middle of the road so to speak.
This isn't a dominant, bi-sexual, born in the wrong body, or desire to fit in issue, it's just who I am. Yes, I like to cuddle, snuggle, be treated nicely, flirt and smiled at as a person but a diva - just don't see that happening. Of course I like to look well groomed and keep healthy and fit but it isn't to attract a man or make heads turn. We are all vain to a point, scrubbing my feet and using moisturizer make me feel better even if I'm not going to don a dress and heels opting for guy jeans that fit better and men styled shoes/boots that are more comfortable.


Many of us have always been independent and felt more comfortable with the company and working with men overall; we get them, we can speak their language, we see more of where they are coming from and can relate easily. I tend to think we would like to be taken more seriously if we were physically male but keep the same mindset we already possess. When looking at the topics in the Transmen forum isn't baffling, I'd like to post on FTM topics yet I'm not going to have any surgery or go to extremes to change my appearance. I am on T and feel much better (and more normal) than the estrogen we tried for a short time but it makes me feel like I'm stuck on the other side of the window, which isn't new.
That is the most difficult part to accept I suppose - it's odd how GM's say they'd like to be as versatile as GG's are but I don't think many realize it is just as difficult for some of us as well.


FWIW: lately my pet peeve are forms you have to fill out and you are given only two options, M or F. I have stopped checking those boxes whenever possible, they need to add A or just H(uman) for non-medical related information.

[sabo10]

That's a very interesting question. I'm probably one of the newest people here (and I don't just mean joining date), but I'll try to answer it as best I can from the position I am in now. Sometimes it IS a little scary being here -- like being the new kid at school and having to deal with the older, cooler kids. Don't take my lunch money, guys!

I think my base feelings will never change, but I reserve to right to change my response towards them. Coming out to myself is one of the best things I've ever done -- it's been a huge step for understanding who I am, understanding why certain things upset me in the past and taking the steps to making myself a happier person. Recently, life has been amazing -- and it's just because I've been myself.

Do I identify as male? Yes. How far will I take it? Don't know yet. That latter part makes me feel a bit like a pretender around here.

I want T and top surgery... but I'm a wuss. Yeah, I said it. I zigzag between wanting to do it more than anything and just being too scared to think reasonably about it. If I'm out in public and catch sight of myself in a window/mirror, I feel great... until I look at the people around me. I'm too strange for them. Either way, that approach is on hold for now. There are issues within my family as well, not to mention that if I were to transition I'd probably have to say goodbye to Japan first.

About the pronouns ....I don't worry about them. Much. I feel that those very close to me should respect my wishes, but I'm okay outside of that. I already struggle with the way my name is used. It's typical for foreigners to be addressed by our first name (we just prefer it that way -- didn't you know? *sarcasm*), while we are expected to respect tradition and refer to everyone else by their family name. So I have other identity issues to figure out first!

--KP.

[KimberlyS]

Balance can be difficult, yes. And the solutions we find will never be perfect.

I agree very much so. And also balance at least for me is a constantly moving point based in general on my life and what is going on it it.

It is interesting that often it seems my wife is more aware of me being off balance than I am. She will ask me out of the blue if I need some time to myself. Her way of asking if I need some femme time. And then due to the current household setup, it usually means I do some out and about time in full femme away from home. Some times we are able to work it so just I can be home and get my femme time as joe in a skirt and other femme clothes; no wig or makeup.

[CaptLex]

Thanks to Lex's support I'll give this a shot. There was a bribery of rum of course.

Your choice . . .

Coconut rum
Tortuga_Coconut_Rum.jpg

or Banana rum
Tortuga_Banana_Rum.jpg

Thanks for your responses . . . please keep 'em coming . . . I'll get more rum.

[Taylor105]

The strangest thing I guess is that I do identify as a woman, but 9 times out of 10 when someone mentions something generic about women (women like shopping, women are bad at math, women are nurturing, etc.) it doesn't apply to me (and probably not to a lot of other women either).

Physically it's pretty clear I'm a woman, but even though I have large breasts and don't bind I still get addressed as Sir quite regularly. I guess there must be something masculine that shines through (and I don't think it's just the male/gender neutral clothes I wear).

Especially young kids peg me as male. For example my almost 4 year old nephew at the dinner table at my parents about two weeks ago. Nephew: "Grandpa, you're a boy right?". Grandpa: "Yes I am.". Nephew: "Aunt J. (insert my female name), you're also a boy, right?". Me: "No, I'm a girl.". Total disbelief, and a you got to be kidding look. He asked all the others at the table if I really was a girl, but even though they said I was, he thinks we were pulling a prank on him and is still convinced I'm a boy.

Just had to say I get pegged by young kids as male all the time. They have that saying "out of the mouths of babes" It is totally true. Kids see what others can't all the time. I love it!

[KrazyKat]

The strangest thing I guess is that I do identify as a woman, but 9 times out of 10 when someone mentions something generic about women (women like shopping, women are bad at math, women are nurturing, etc.) it doesn't apply to me (and probably not to a lot of other women either).

This sums it up for me, as I've posted a few times. I hate it when people put me in a "box" and label me because I'm a woman!! I could always do all those things, but for someone who is my "friend" for many years, to not recognize this, really upsets me!!

So, I've found new family and friends!!Ones who see me for me!! Not as a gender identity first, because I don't identify with either gender, really! I'm like a chameleon, I can change my "stripes" whenever I choose to, which is kind of cool, now that I understand this!!

Having a loving LP(life partner) who understands me certainly helps!! I think of myself as a very LUCKY KAT indeed!!

[waspookie6]

So, I've found new family and friends!!Ones who see me for me!! Not as a gender identity first, because I don't identify with either gender, really! I'm like a chameleon, I can change my "stripes" whenever I choose to, which is kind of cool, now that I understand this!!

Having a loving LP(life partner) who understands me certainly helps!! I think of myself as a very LUCKY KAT indeed!!

Yep Kat, I tend to forge friendships where everything but the soul of that person is irrelevant. There are fewer days (weeks? months? years?) where I feel "female" in the traditional sense but if a whim strikes, I can dress up. Overall I just want to look good, healthy, fewest wrinkles possible, toned up muscles. It just makes me feel more like I 'fit' in my own skin and few seem to notice - or it could be I don't take notice of their reaction to what I look like. It sure helps when launching out of the box in a street race car but GM's just don't cotton to that even when I could help them get a better run down the track. A "girl" isn't supposed to know those things though the older I get, the more they don't feel threatened and take me a bit more seriously

The only "box" I feel comfortable in is the one where my back tires are being warmed up on the tree

[onerous]

I identify as a non-female human.
If there was a gender spectrum where 1 = female and 10 = male, most days I oscillate between 6 and 9. I am not a girl, because I don't think, feel or behave even remotely like one, but being called a boy doesn't sound right either, due to this non-boy body..

Androgynous-male, probably.
It's strange how we try to escape labels, yet still feel the need to label ourselves..

[Devon James]

I think I'm more male than female, at least 70%. I really dislike it when someone says ma'am or other female pronouns, although I try not to react to it. I do have a female body, well the only things that shows are my breasts the rest looks quite male. I feel more comfortable being a man, I feel more certain of myself as well. Most people call me by my female name, only on the internet I'm called Deron, maybe when they get more used to it they'll use my male name I'm not going to force that.

I won't go into transition, that goes to far for me, although I wish some girl-things would be gone. I'm not done yet figuring out who I am or what works best for me.

[Katherine Bell]

As difficult and painful as it may be to question the very things most people take for granted, like gender, it can bring about the very best in person with more self discovery then ever known before.
All my life I've always consider myself more male like than female like. Although superficially I am very femme, allot of the inside feels much more male or just gender neutral. In my 20’s I often referred to myself as a female gay boy.
When I was very young my mother told me I was a twin but that my twin died at birth. Growing up I thought the more masculine side of me was perhaps passed on by the twin that never was. As an adult I figured out my mother was incorrect, there was no twin. So at some point I had to accept it was just all me.
I've always preferred the company of men over woman. But I also enjoy being romantic with a woman too. Likewise in many, many ways I behave, think and act much more male like. Yet on the surface I love looking like a woman and I am proud to be so. I really can not honestly say if I feel the need to label what I may be other than to say I'm Katherine.

[Alan]

I struggle with this not because I particularly consider myself female (I wouldn't be caught dead in a dress or acting like a girl -- no offense or anything, it's just not me) but because I feel that maybe one day, I'll realize that this isn't me either. And you know, it's one thing to say, "I'm gay," date men, and realize one day that hey, women do it for me too. No real harm done, besides maybe missing something because I didn't consider women companions.

But transitioning to male -- hormones, mastectomy (god I want one ), hysterectomy (that too), etc -- that's so irreversible. And while I like black-and-white, I LOVE wiggle room.

However... I've got to accept that for however long I've known it, I've been masculine. I was a tomboy while girls are described as tomboys, I played harder than any girl in my gym class and frequently harder than the guys, I hung out with guys, etc. I *still* have more male friends than female and I *still* don't feel feminine.

I went through a period where I thought maybe if I dress in girly clothes (low-cut tops, form-fitting tops, coordinated outfits), makeup, jewelery (I even had my ears pierced at my parents' behest -- something about looking more feminine was their argument), and it SO failed. I wore skirts with shorts underneath b/c otherwise it felt wrong. I frequently applied makeup absent-mindedly because I really couldn't care less. I haven't worn any jewelery in so long that the ring lines on my finger have disappeared (I previously wore a ring for 13 years, but I really prefer not having one) and the piercings in my ear have closed up.

Anyway. Where was I? Oh, right. So I feel very masculine and very much like a guy. I prefer 'Alan' and 'she' makes me bare my teeth -- and don't get me started on miss/ma'am. If you've got to "show the proper feudal spirit" (or just be polite), it's SIR.

But I feel maybe that because I'm young, I feel more strongly, and one day, I'll mellow out (then again, I have the type of personality that will always feel strongly). And then I feel... I can't not go after something just because I *think* that one day, I might wish for something else.

Anyway. My completely incoherent . Or $2 by now.

[Stargirl]

The tyranny of biology. Puberty : "What in hell is this?" I thought. I did not glow with the onset of "womanhood". I was attracted to femme guys, and butch girls. I hated Gym class. Babies ? Marriage ? "nabbing" a man as soon as possible ? Forget it. I was a bachelorette. The "white dress" dream and the taking a vow to "obey" wasn't for me. I wanted a life of my own, and not to be an extension of someone else. Weddings ? Hated them. Baby showers ? Not interested. I was, and am, feminine, however, my inner persona reflects a male mind at times. I have no desire to be physically a guy. My "inner male" is a soft sensitive type who empathises with women/and men as human beings in a world often filled with really jerky men and women. I dress in a feminine manner, and consider myself bi sexual. It gets complicated, so I stopped trying to "shelf" everything, or "lock in " a "must BE this or that". I have a free rein.

[CD Susan]

As difficult and painful as it may be to question the very things most people take for granted, like gender, it can bring about the very best in person with more self discovery then ever known before.
All my life I've always consider myself more male like than female like. Although superficially I am very femme, allot of the inside feels much more male or just gender neutral. In my 20’s I often referred to myself as a female gay boy.
When I was very young my mother told me I was a twin but that my twin died at birth. Growing up I thought the more masculine side of me was perhaps passed on by the twin that never was. As an adult I figured out my mother was incorrect, there was no twin. So at some point I had to accept it was just all me.
I've always preferred the company of men over woman. But I also enjoy being romantic with a woman too. Likewise in many, many ways I behave, think and act much more male like. Yet on the surface I love looking like a woman and I am proud to be so. I really can not honestly say if I feel the need to label what I may be other than to say I'm Katherine.

Hi Katherine, I agree with your philosophy! I happen to be mtf but can relate to everything that you have said. I do not care for labels either and just want others to see me as and call me Susan. This who I am and wish that the rest of the world could see this in me as well as the way you feel about yourself too.

[Hidden Tell]

It's the very thing I've been obsessing a bit about recently. I've always had these, shall we say, cross-gendered leanings since as far back as I can remember. But at the same time, I'm really pretty effeminate for a dude. Its just like elementery skool - I said something about being a tomboy to one of those adult caretaker types, the counselor possibly. When she asked me to say how exactly I qualified, I couldnt come up with a single answer... So, in short, Im gonna be a very wierd man but I'm gonna be a man none-the-less. (Or so I hope.)
Did any of that make the slightest bit of sense? 0_0''