I give up!

[Ashley in Virginia]

My head hurts

[Nicki B]

I think being a woman, and being feminine are two very different things.

That's the crux, particularly in this community, isn't it? And looking feminine and acting/thinking in a feminine way can also be poles apart - but we may as individuals have different objectives?

It was meant as in how strange it was for a group of people to demand acceptance but not show it at the same time (this is not in reference to all cders).

If we, as a community of M2Fs, want to avoid being 'judged' ourselves, it does seem strange to so often pass judgements on others? There is always the teensiest possibility that we could be wrong, for starters...

[Raquel June]

I think being a woman, and being feminine are two very different things.

Certainly, but doesn't admitting it make crossdressing a joke? Even those of us who are OK just being accepted as a weirdo trying to be feminine would prefer to be accepted as a woman. That's the Holy Grail of crossdressing.

Again, I agree that many here (probably including myself) have said unfair/unreasonable/inappropriate/unacceptable things regarding GGs, and I'm not defending that. I'm saying that the motivation is rarely malicious. What manifests as an overt attack on women is just frustration -- frustration at what the poster sees as a great cosmic injustice, so responding to negative comments could be hard to do without really setting some people off.


edit -- Oops. Looks like Nicki said about the same thing, and I'm just a copy-cat!

[DemonicDaughter]

That's the crux, particularly in this community, isn't it? And looking feminine and acting/thinking in a feminine way can also be poles apart - but we may as individuals have different objectives?

If we, as a community of M2Fs, want to avoid being 'judged' ourselves, it does seem strange to so often pass judgements on others? There is always the teensiest possibility that we could be wrong, for starters...

Certainly, but doesn't admitting it make crossdressing a joke? Even those of us who are OK just being accepted as a weirdo trying to be feminine would prefer to be accepted as a woman. That's the Holy Grail of crossdressing.

Again, I agree that many here (probably including myself) have said unfair/unreasonable/inappropriate/unacceptable things regarding GGs, and I'm not defending that. I'm saying that the motivation is rarely malicious. What manifests as an overt attack on women is just frustration -- frustration at what the poster sees as a great cosmic injustice, so responding to negative comments could be hard to do without really setting some people off.


edit -- Oops. Looks like Nicki said about the same thing, and I'm just a copy-cat!

But not all MtF express wanting to be a woman, correct? I think they all express wanting to be feminine though. I suppose in a lot of ways its very difficult to distinguish what it is to be a woman and what it is to be feminine. That was the hardest argument I had when responding to my friends email. I certainly don't think everyone who has ever said, "GGs don't dress feminine" is saying it to be malicious but when words like "hideous", "grizzly", etc. are used, meant vicious or not, it would be difficult for someone outside this community to see it as anything but. And that was the point really. Just a sort of "heads up".

A little, if you didn't mean what you said then you should say what you mean. If you don't want others to assume you feel the same, you should voice what you do feel (with tact of course, lol).

[Raquel June]

But not all MtF express wanting to be a woman, correct?

There's plenty who would and plenty who wouldn't. What doesn't get addressed very often is everyone's bigender feelings. Even if they don't identify as CDs, most people would like to see what life was like as the opposite sex for an afternoon. Femininity aside, 95% of CDs I've talked to, even if they don't want to be a woman permanently, would greatly prefer to be accepted as one while en femme. The ones who wouldn't are perverts who just dress for the kink factor.

I certainly don't think everyone who has ever said, "GGs don't dress feminine" is saying it to be malicious but when words like "hideous", "grizzly", etc. are used, meant vicious or not, it would be difficult for someone outside this community to see it as anything but. And that was the point really. Just a sort of "heads up".

Yeah, and I'm with you in hoping more people will give that needed heads-up. I think a lot of the regulars don't even bother clicking on threads with topics that tend to degenerate like that, though.

[Beth-Lock]

DD:
.... I know I'll never be passable -- I'm taller than most men, and I have bigger shoulders than most men. If I dressed like a real girl I'd probably look like an average guy who wasn't even trying to look like a girl.

.... I know it must get quite irritating seeing all the comments about CDs dressing more feminine than GGs, but it's the truth. They do it to compensate. They do it because wearing jeans like they do every other day doesn't make them feel feminine.

.

In essence, CD's dress in a deliberately extra-feminine way to compensate, both to try and pass or come closer too it, and to feel more like a woman, or at least feel that they look more like a women.

Maybe that is part of my problem personally. I tend to dress more like a regular woman does, and end up looking particularly unpassable. Still worse, if I wear women's pants, and a shortish wig, I end up being addressed as 'Sir,' by strangers I have to deal with.

Those comments do have a real world ring of being factual.

[Emily Anderson]

In essence, CD's dress in a deliberately extra-feminine way to compensate, both to try and pass or come closer too it, and to feel more like a woman, or at least feel that they look more like a women.

That may just be a phase.

I used to like the ultra-girly look and tried to squeeze into a lot of clothing that could only be worn by the slimmest and fittest of women. Needless to say, I looked like, well... not much!

Nowadays I know more or less what could look good on me, and avoid the fantasy stuff... It does better over time. I think it's a bit akin to teenage girls trying to find a style that suits them, and going through a lot of trial and error.

[Nicki B]

Certainly, but doesn't admitting it make crossdressing a joke? Even those of us who are OK just being accepted as a weirdo trying to be feminine would prefer to be accepted as a woman.

Not a copycat..

Speaking for myself - I believe I'm feminine in many ways, but I'm also comfortable being accepted as transgender.. To me, that feels more honest? For many people who meet me though, who can only deal with a binary, they are more comfortable treating me as a woman. I see myself as an 'in-betweenie'?

There's plenty who would and plenty who wouldn't. What doesn't get addressed very often is everyone's bigender feelings. Even if they don't identify as CDs, most people would like to see what life was like as the opposite sex for an afternoon. Femininity aside, 95% of CDs I've talked to, even if they don't want to be a woman permanently, would greatly prefer to be accepted as one while en femme. The ones who wouldn't are perverts who just dress for the kink factor.

I don't think I fit your definition - but I'm certainly not in it to get my rocks off..

[Raquel June]

Nicki:

I was actually kinda thinking along the lines of what you just said after I posted, but I'd already been thinking about it too long.

When I'm at an accepting place -- where people know what I am and they're OK with it and nice to me and not freaked out, I'm happy. To be honest I'm not sure if I'd be much happier if I was a real girl and treated as such.

It's just so hard for me imagine that feeling in everyday life. What if I could just walk around town like that without getting creepy looks? Maybe that'd be all I was looking for.

That makes me think of something that happened a month ago... There was a drag show on a college campus that I went to, and it started at 7pm. When you're on campus at 7pm, you run into a lot of people in their 30's and 40's taking evening classes. All the classes I've taken have been on the south side of campus, but the drag show was on the north side. I parked and was looking for the correct building. I was dressed a little strangely in a Hello Kitty shirt, a short pleated velvet skirt, fishnet arm warmers, fishnet stockings, and knee-high 4" boots. Two ladies walked past me and tried very hard not to make eye contact, then a little boy (probably about 4 years old) ran up to me and said, "Hey, lady!" and just kinda gazed up at me with a big smile. I said, "Hey!" back in a really friendly voice, and then walked over to his mom and asked her if she knew where Fawcett Hall was. She just said, "no," and tried not to make eye contact.

I'm not sure why that little kid made me so happy, though. Was it because he called me "lady," or just because he was nice? It has to be a little bit of both.

The next day a friend of mine (who I'd told about the show) said, "Guess what? Peter said he saw a transvestite on campus Friday."

Anyway, sorry to get OT.

[CaptLex]

My head hurts

Mine too . . . pass the rum.

[Nicole Erin]

It takes so much more than that to insult me. LOL!

So DD you want to be insulted? Alright then, first of all, let me remind you that Yo mamma so fat, she jumped in the air and got stuck! And yo brother so ugly, he had to tie a steak to his neck just so the dog would hang around him!

And if that doesn't rattle your nerves, then check this out - Yo computer so old, it still uses DOS! HA!

Now, don't you just feel violated? Insulted?

[kerrianna]

Mine too . . . pass the rum.

It'll only hurt more in the morning dear.


What I don't get is this thread is titled "I give up!" by DD and yet there she is not giving up. This was a trick! You're a sneaky one, DD.

[DemonicDaughter]

And if that doesn't rattle your nerves, then check this out - Yo computer so old, it still uses DOS! HA!

Now, don't you just feel violated? Insulted?

We were fine till you brought in my computer! Don't make me make my computer b*tch slap yours!

It'll only hurt more in the morning dear.


What I don't get is this thread is titled "I give up!" by DD and yet there she is not giving up. This was a trick! You're a sneaky one, DD.

Well... maybe a little. I meant more or less that I was giving up sending people to the forums... but we all know I won't do that either. lol

[Satrana]

There's no catch-22. Some people just have ridiculous ideas about tolerance. Do you think the world should've been more tolerant of the Nazis? Your tolerance of a person should end as soon as that person starts being an a-hole. If it doesn't, you are no longer tolerant -- you're just weak.

And you gets to decide which ideas are ridiculous? You? Does that mean people who think crossdressing is ridiculous should attack you? Don't you want to be able to express yourself as a CD and if others don't like what you are doing then you would want them to keep their thoughts to themselves. However you argue otherwise that if they don't tell you what they think of you then they are weak.

How is this different from someone saying I am smarter than the average bear? I happen to think that anyone who needs to express superiority over anyone is an insecure person but I let them hang themselves by allowing them to gloat and letting others make up their own minds. The only person who gets hurt is the one gloating since nobody bothers to listen to them anymore.

How can we as a community demanding tolerance of a lifestyle that the majority of society believes is abhorrent or a joke take the moral high ground if we are so ready to be intolerant ourselves. Weakness comes through intolerance of others, tolerance of differences is strength. And comparing such persons to Nazis only demonstrates the true weakness of your argument.

[ErikaLeigh]

Well here is my .02..... This is an internet message board and there will always be someone that will offend you. Personally I think you have to look at the WHOLE picture. This site has helped me and many others to come to grips with who they are. Since finding this site my wife now knows about my femme side, I have been out in public a few dozen times, met some AWESOME friends here both in person and just through the board. SO as a whole this site is GREAT. That being said, I think some of the offenses may come from less mature CDers, not because of their age, but more from being couped up and then either taking or being given their freedom to express their femme side. Lets face it, when most of us were first able to buy the clothes and gurl things we wanted, it was on the "****ty" side of things, but as we mature that seems to tone down, at least for me it did, BIG time. I really admire ALL GGs. I especially admire a woman who can dress in a t-shirt & shorts or jeans with little or no makeup and although just casual wear, they look great. I am at a point in my life where I want to dress more conservative and draw less attention to myself. Living in the phoenix area in the summer nobody wants to get too dolled up anyway, its too flippin hot. I just want to say to ALL genetic gals that come here, WELCOME and please dont let a few, or maybe not so few offensive posts speak for all of us.

Erika

[Margot]

Some of the things written raise my hackles too but I don't comment on them. I don't embrace this forum for confrontation but to interact with others interested in CD'ng or Tg. You mentioned that your freind only lurked on the site. Perhaps more interaction might have pointed her to only those with whom she preferred to communicate.
It must have been somewhat embarassing for you you,hon. Thanks for trying.

Margot

[Dalece]

DD don't give up please I love you to much for you to. I don't know where to begin to say what I feel about this.

[Raquel June]

It must have been somewhat embarassing for you you,hon. Thanks for trying.

Margot

Yeah, that sucks... People think CDs are such weirdos, and I know most of us try to represent the community in a good light. It makes me really depressed when some CDs make all of us look bad. I suppose sometimes I'm the one making us look bad, though. Oh well.

[AmandaM]

This thread offends me!