Cruelty

[Beth-Lock]

There seems to be a lot of cruelty out there, directed towards CD's. One has only to walk around dressed up, (CD'ing), to see that even women, who seem better at spotting a man in a skirt, use that ability to make a bit of a scene, at least by displaying a rude smirk, and so ridicule the CD'er. Men, though more violent on the street, especially if low class, do not seem to take it as such a comical matter, or even an insult, at least if they do not have a chip on their shoulder, as most people relatively confortable in their lives, do not.
If one is at all sensitive, one can easily take it to heart and indeed, be destroyed by it, or at least have a part of one's soul or spirit destroyed. It is so hurtful to see a GG take it up as a personal issue, between you and them. After all, imitation is the sincereest form of flattery. But they do not seem to seem it at all that way.
I guess how you get past this sort of thing is a personal matter, and not something another can likely help with.
These days though, I simply feel like giving up.
How common is this?

[Holly]

...How common is this?

Not common at all! Where in the heck have you been hanging around? Is this something that you have personnaly experienced? Is it at all possible that your presentation could be improved?

[Tamara Croft]

I think that happens all over the world.. and not just at CD's, but anyone.. Some GG's tend to have that built in bitch gene... look at you funny, point and laugh... giving you a complex, making you feel bad about yourself etc... teenagers imho are the most cruelest creatures... they can spot a CD from a mile away.. and some of the things I've heard coming out their mouths, if I was their mother, they would have got soap in it

[Nicole Erin]

Men are probably more likely to disapprove but less likely to say anything because they don't even want to acknowledge it or think about it.

Women as a sex are more secure about their femininity than men about their masculinity.

However, my opinion is that women would be a bit more likely to accept a CD than a man would.

I guess it evens out. Bascially, one will find out faster if a woman approves or not than if a man does.

Plenty of women have asked me if I wear women's things, but not too many guys, unless it is one of our admirers.

[Beth-Lock]

Not common at all! Where in the heck have you been hanging around? Is this something that you have personnaly experienced? Is it at all possible that your presentation could be improved?

I think I have already given up, progressively and for some time now. Now I stay by myself, and dress only at home.

[sandra-leigh]

As best I can recall at the moment, I haven't ever had a rude comment from a woman. I have had a stiff stare from one woman (whom I had seen around a few times and have never seen smile). I have had a couple of younger women (early 20's??) laugh audibly at me after I had passed (hint: when you are in guy mode, high heels on asphalt makes a lot of attention-getting noise!) I don't recall personally ever having any trouble with teenagers.

I have never observed any hint that a woman has taken my cross-dressing as an insult (though who knows what was going through the mind of the stare-maestra!)

The closest I am getting is that my seamstress, although happy to dart my blouses, resize my dresses, and so on, gave me a little headshake of disapproval the other day when I donned on my just-adjusted long denim dress, with forms, and wore that out of the store in guy mode. So for her, it's not about the fact that I wear women's clothes: it's about my wearing them publicly blatantly as a guy (I guess.)

[Jordan-2004]

GG's constantly look at other women (CD's included) and compare bodies. Some GG's are more secure with their bodies than others. Their level of security makes a difference in how they react toward other women. If they feel threatened or down on themselves about a particular body part, they become a bigger critic toward other women to try and boost their own ego. Perhaps you have great legs or a nice figure? I'm guessing you came across some women who saw you as someone who had nicer features than they had and you became a threat to them - and subjected to their criticism or judgement. In dealing with GG's you have to take their reaction in stride and carry on.

Don't give up!

[Lara Smith]

I think there is a large contingent of women who feel, "Dammnit, this is mine, you have everything else and you can't have this too!" Especially if you actually look good and even remotely feminine dressed. And in a way you can't blame them. They just don't see it as flattery. More like theft.

Unfortunately, (maybe with good reason) there are an awful lot of very unhappy females in this world. Look around when you are out and about. There aren't many who are smiling, and many of them just seem seriously angry and pissed off. Give a good look.

[DanaR]

I'm not sure where you were at when you went out, but you could have been in the wrong place. I've always believed if you want to blend, you have to wear what others are wearing. In other words, look around and see what the GG's are wearing. One of our biggest faults, is over dressing.

I've been read while walking down the street, but the person that read me also returned my smile.

[Kris]

GG's constantly look at other women (CD's included) and compare bodies. Some GG's are more secure with their bodies than others. Their level of security makes a difference in how they react toward other women. If they feel threatened or down on themselves about a particular body part, they become a bigger critic toward other women to try and boost their own ego.

OMG! You have got to be kidding, right? I know that there are some insecure women on this earth and some have the comparison gene, but come on....... as much as a crossdresser wants to be a woman, you are a cross dresser. PERIOD. Things are way different if you are transgendered but I don't know ANY women who feel "threatened" by a cross dresser. I have seen crossdressers who make FOOLS of themselves and when they get funny looks, they say, "Oh they are jealous of me!"

I so don't think so. And for that matter, I am a woman who loves other women. I have no problem telling another woman they are beautiful, or that she has a great body, and no I am far from gay. I just think that it's high time that women lost the old societal idea that we "should" all be fighting. If we banded together............ we could rule the world.

I think there is a large contingent of women who feel, "Dammnit, this is mine, you have everything else and you can't have this too!" Especially if you actually look good and even remotely feminine dressed. And in a way you can't blame them. They just don't see it as flattery. More like theft.

Unfortunately, (maybe with good reason) there are an awful lot of very unhappy females in this world. Look around when you are out and about. There aren't many who are smiling, and many of them just seem seriously angry and pissed off. Give a good look.

Where do you people get these ideas from? Are you just making it up as you go along? Females feel that you are "stealing our womanhood?" WTF does that mean?

There are an awful lot of men who are angry unhappy males, I would even say crossdressers. Men don't smile - women smile more than men do - in a huge way..... Men seem to be angry and pissed off. Men have testosterone poisoning and even compete with each other over stupid things like PASSING GAS! Then of course there are those men with "little mans syndrome!"

See gurls, this is EXACTLY why GG's don't like to come here....... you even MAKE STUFF UP ABOUT US! How can a GG want to come here? Even if she is supportive of TG/CD'ers -- these kind of comments just make me sick.

Kris

[kay_jessica]

Not common at all! Where in the heck have you been hanging around? Is this something that you have personnaly experienced? Is it at all possible that your presentation could be improved?

I must agree with Holly, I have very rarely encounter any adverse comment of reaction. In fact, in all the time (which is considerable) I think I have notice just 2 adverse comments. That is in my estimation a very tiny incidence rate given that I have been out several thousand times, of which a good 50% - 60% of those were in day light and for extended periods.

So if you do attract adverse comment or reaction it may be that your presentation is inappropriate. If you don't blend but stand out because of what you are wearing then you will be noticed. Once noticed and if you are too outrageously dressed (ie too tarty or wrong clothes/age combination) then you are likely to draw ridicule.

[JaytoJillian]

Interesting topic. Fortunately, for me, I have rarely been harassed, and when I have, GGs were never the source. My encounters with GGs have, I must say, been very interesting. All have been friendly, though. Usually, I get, "wow, you are very tall!" LoL. I've even been pursued by a lesbian or two while out clubbing. Talk about having the tables turned on you. But nothing compares with being engaged in sincere conversation by a GG who is truly interested in this crazy hobby of mine.

Regarding teens, I vividly recall being followed around a grocery store by a carload of teen boys who just happened to arrive at the same time that I did. (I may have told some of you this story before) It was close to Halloween, so the "excuse" I had rehearsed was that I was going to a costume party. I grew more and more nervous as three of them followed me from aisle to aisle, as it was after midnight. Finally after getting some cash from the store's ATM, I turned to confront them. In the butchest voice I could summon, I said something like, "Dude, I'm going to a costume party, allright?!"

I'm pretty sure I heard three jaws hitting the floor. The next thing I heard was, "It's a dude!" LoL, these poor, ignorant souls had no idea until I outed myself, LoL. They subsequently followed me to the parking lot, and I thought, OMG, this is where I make the news papers or the police blotter trying to fend of a group of confused teen boys with raging hormones. Surprisingly, they went to their car without much of a ruckus, but one of them called out, "so, where is that party you're going to?" I just jokingly replied that it probably wasn't their type of scene, thanked my lucky stars and drove away breathing a heavy sigh of relief.

I was heckled by a carload of men one night while leaving a club, but they just yelled something vile and sped away before I really even had a chance to look up. I guess I've been somewhat fortunate, but I do choose carefully when deciding WHERE to go en femme.


Cheers,



Jill

[Kate Simmons]

Personally, I don't see that much in a "bashing" sense when people "make" me. What I do see most often is interest and curiosity. This is the opportunity to prove we are just people and not a bunch of "freaks". If people are genuinely interested I will explain my feelings on the matter. If not, I go about my business, which is to enjoy being myself and having fun and they generally go about theirs. Either way, I try to make the experience of interaction a positive one.

[Beth-Lock]

I think there is a large contingent of women who feel, "Dammnit, this is mine, you have everything else and you can't have this too!" Especially if you actually look good and even remotely feminine dressed. And in a way you can't blame them. They just don't see it as flattery. More like theft..

I think there is an element of truth in that, Lara. After all, women have been known in the past to bully and even beat up a girl who does not belong to the club by acting differently, mainly what they consider trashily. It as if women are tuned to defending their group and being guardians of true femininity and good behavior. CD's are perhaps viewed as simply gate crashers at the party.
I am trying to understand, not judge, except to try and find a way to be treated better.
Beyond that, is the issue of whether we can pass or at least blend in. One approach is of course, why should we have to? There was a thread here recently, under the tag, 'reality check.' that took the view that practically none of us could really pass. I must say I took that to heart at the time.
However, when I started this thread I was quite down, but now am feeling more optimistic this morning. I guess it is just time to pick myself up and go on.
Thanks for those who took the time to help me.
Any more ideas?

[DemonicDaughter]

I think there is an element of truth in that, Lara. ...

Beth,

Sorry you've had any bad run ins with GGs. I have to agree with Holly in that I've rarely seen that myself but it has been known to happen. But as for it happening because its cders stepping into gg "territory"... ummm... no.

Here's why:

If a woman sees another good looking woman, we don't hate her for it. We either wished we looked just as good or we are happy for her. We don't see men dressed as women as a threat to our womanhood because they aren't becoming women. We don't even see ts or tg as a threat because we mostly accept them as a woman born in the wrong body.

Does everyone understand and accept? No. But on the whole, women don't think like that. "Competition" for women is when someone else compares us. To have a mate compare us to an ex. A parent compare us to another sibling. A boss compare us to a co-worker. Which is true for men as well.

You don't see a good looking GG and hate her do you? No. You either wished you looked as good or you feel happy for her. It would only be if someone leaned over and said, "You look NOTHING like her!" that you would get upset.

[CaptLex]

women have been known in the past to bully and even beat up a girl who does not belong to the club by acting differently, mainly what they consider trashily. It as if women are tuned to defending their group and being guardians of true femininity and good behavior.

Uh-huh . . . I'm sure women are the only ones who would do such a thing.

It's a human failing, Beth.

[MAJESTYK]

People often fear what they cannot understand. Hold your head high and be yourself

[CowGurl Rachel]

The first time I ever went out in public dressed was to a BBS party. It was at a club that we normally use for our GT's (get togethers) and I was actually hit on by men AND women (I was dressed as a white bunny/no, I don't have pics). I told the boys I only dance with girls, and several of the GG's actually ran interference for me, so the boys would back off. I did not know these GG's, but they new I was a CD. The LAST time I went out was a disaster. We went to a bar and were playing darts, when some MEN started harrassing me, and would NOT stop. The GG's I was with tried to help, but we finally left. In the parking lot, some of the women in the bar that witnessed this, came up to me and said that they are very sorry and that they "ripped those men a new one!". I haven't dressed in public since, but it is for the MEN whom I may meet, and with my temper, pride and the pink ninja inside, bad things may happen. That being said, I think you have to remember that society is changing, and some are resisting the change. If it is that bad for you, find some GG's to go out with, and if you are in a group, the comments won't be as noticable if at all. Just a thought.

Rachel

[Melanie R]

Over the past 15 years my wife and I have sponsored and participated in 35 cruises where 30-50 crossdressers and some wives/family members are out in public for 5-16 days among 2000+ other passengers. After the first day most of the passengers know we are on board. We have rarely seen any backlash from others on board. Yes, some men are threatened by our presence while some have asked to talk privately about their own very secret crossdressing. Most of the women want to talk and ask the usual questions.

We have on some of the cruises been confronted by some religious right groups who challenge our sinful lifestyle. By the end of the cruise we have educated many of these people who end up being very supportive. On one cruise we had some of Jerry Falwell's church members who attended a party we had in our suite. They told us we would be welcome at any time to attend their church adding that most of the CD's looked better than they did.

We always tell those who participate in our cruises that if you dress appropriately and act dignified you will not have any problems. We do insist that those in the group not use the public restrooms reserved for women unless their gender marker says "female". That is a requirement of all cruises lines. With more unisex restrooms added to cruise ships this is becoming less of a problem. On all of our cruises on a formal night before dinner we have the ship's photographer take our group picture in the ship's atrium. Usually there are hundreds of other passengers who also take a picture of the group and also ask to pose with many of the group.

The key is education to conquer ignorance and the many myths about transgendered persons. The question always comes up can you go on board enfemme? On 35 cruises we have never had a problem with going on or leaving the ship enfemme.

[Emily Anderson]

If you look like prey, you'll find plenty of predators. It's a confidence thing, really.

[Nicole Erin]

Beth Lock, I forgot - don't let the comments or laughter of a few a-holes ruin your fun in going out.

The GG's who have done this, are they the same ones who look like their clothes are not stylish enough to sell at Family Dollar?

The ones who think their fat butt needs to be on display with the words "baby girl" across the back of their short shorts?

They probably laughed at you in order to make themselves feel better about their own worthless lives.

You could politely tell them to get off the quest card and to get a job. I guarantee they will not enjoy that comment. [I told that to an ex-neighbor once and her jaw hit the floor.]

Now pick your butt back up and enjoy yourself. F the haters and the laughers.

[Nicki B]

There seems to be a lot of cruelty out there, directed towards CD's. One has only to walk around dressed up, (CD'ing), to see that even women, who seem better at spotting a man in a skirt, use that ability to make a bit of a scene, at least by displaying a rude smirk, and so ridicule the CD'er. Men, though more violent on the street, especially if low class, do not seem to take it as such a comical matter, or even an insult, at least if they do not have a chip on their shoulder, as most people relatively confortable in their lives, do not.

Eh???

I'm glad I don't live where you do.. I've known puzzlement, curiosity, very rarely fear (always from men) - but cruelty?? No.

[Sharon]

Eh???

I'm glad I don't live where you do.. I've known puzzlement, curiosity, very rarely fear (always from men) - but cruelty?? No.

Me either. It might be because I am deaf in one ear and blind as a weevil, but I never experienced anything close to cruelty. I know that it happens, and just one occurrence is one too many, so I realize that I have been fortunate.

[Beth-Lock]

Uh-huh . . . I'm sure women are the only ones who would do such a thing.

It's a human failing, Beth.

CaptLex,
That was a very thought provoking comment. When I began examining my own experience, I came across memories of me doing exactly that many, many years ago, (not beating up though, but verbally harassing another guy for trying to dress a little too punky, in those conservative times).
I do acknowledge that there is a pressure to confrom that can be good sometimes. But, it may in many instances, even when that is true, be a case of using a bad means with the hope of achieving a good end. We are in affect, taking it upon ourselves to force another along a path of their destiny that we think is best. Maybe it is not always wise to try and play God in these matters, when we may not understand. The prevailing opinion though of those who believe in democracy in social affairs, rather than just poltical events, would say this sort of interaction is natural, if hurtful.
In a nutshell, in apologizing (just above) for my own negative behavior, I am am in effect starting to excuse other's bad behavior against me. Well, live and learn.
As I said, your comment was a thought provoking one.

[TxKimberly]

Well, as you can see in my last post about being in Wilmington, I HAVE had encounters where people were clearly less than kind, but that has been the exception. The vast majority of the time I have been treated well by all, even well after it was clear to them that i was a male. So yes, there are people like that out there, but they are the exception, not the norm.