Line in a book got me thinking.

[Alan]

I'm reading a book called The First Man-Made Man, which is about the first two transsexuals (one FTM, one MTF). I'm not very far into it, but, there's a line in it which got me thinking.

"Wearing a dress threw her [Laura Dillon, later Michael Dillon] into anguish so excruciating that she compared it to the pain of having her teeth drilled. To be caught in anything frilly was to be humiliated."

Now, I mean, I hate dresses and I hate frills and I hate looking like a girl, but it was never ANGUISH or excruciating or anything. So.... I'm curious what you guys have to say on this.

[Sara Violet]

I understand that line too well. In the end before I came out I really thought I was going to die. My depression was giving me severe headaches, chest pains and stomach aches. It was a pain so bad I needed to take 3 sleeping pills and cut myself almost every night just to fall asleep. Only to wake up having severe night terrors. The night terrors were the worst thing imaginable. Imagine being truly afraid to go to sleep knowing you will wake up like this.

"Most sufferers will awake gasping, moaning, crying but more often screaming. Breathing rapidly they will sit up in bed with a wide eyed terror filled stare. This panic will often last anywhere from five to twenty minutes. I find the most amazing aspect of night terrors is that it generates a heart rate of 160 to 170 beats per minute. This is much faster than the normal heart rate that can be attained under most stressful circumstances." from http://www.nightterrors.org/mot.htm


I could not escape pain while awake or asleep. Suicide was the only thing I could think of. I completely understand his pain.

[Alan]

I know that feeling, too. It's not something I'm particularly willing to share the details of, since it's a time I'd rather like to put behind me, but I do know what it's like. It was just never caused by wearing a dress.

[xTwo_Of_Heartsx]

It wasn't agonizing.. it was just uncomfortable. Like wearing your left shoe on your right foot.

[Sara Violet]

I understand that, my scars will always remind me. I don't speak about it outside this forum tho. As for clothes? I would not go to any formal events like formal school dances because I would need to wear a suit and tie,and while it did not compare to teeth drilling. I would say one event in high school I had to go to, I had bad chest pains and went home early.

[Alan]

It wasn't agonizing.. it was just uncomfortable. Like wearing your left shoe on your right foot.

Exactly! You put it so well, Domi.

I've worn dresses twice in recent memory -- prom and graduation. Prom because my (now) ex asked me not to wear a tux to prom, and /shrug. We were good friends, and he put up with a LOT from me, and it was only for a few hours. Graduation because it was required and because my grandma would've had a heart attack if I wore jeans and a t. But both times, I wore shorts beneath the dress because I simply couldn't stand the feel of being bare-legged.

And every time I wore a skirt in my 'let's try to look like a girl to FEEL like a girl' phase, I wore shorts underneath. I think that itself is very telling.

[xTwo_Of_Heartsx]

Thanks Alan. It just seemed to fit.

I forced myself to wear dresses and skirts for years.. I always hated it.. but did it anyways.. because that's what was expected of me. I conformed, big time.
If you want an example of what I used to look like, go to the very beginning of my photo thread in rogues gallery.

[waspookie6]

While not much but middle of the road here, I hated frilly dresses (and still do) because they are just flat out uncomfortable and did seem humilifying. That went for 'girl' summer clothes too - the phone would ring in our house as a neighbour would inform Mom I was once again, naked and running through a sprinkler or playing in the creek mud. Sometimes I kept the bottoms on but only if they were my brothers that I would take from the laundry room.

It's like wearing sand paper - which isn't comfortable and looks silly.
At least my friends never asked me to be a bridesmaid!

[Alan]

What's agonizing for me is really REVEALING clothes. Anything that shows off feminine curves or has a low-cut neck is just agonizing to wear, and I keep trying to cover-up.

Heh, that's one fight my mom NEVER had with me -- the 'you're not covered enough' fight. Could never fault the way I dressed @_@

[xTwo_Of_Heartsx]

I definitely wore revealing clothes.
I feel sick thinking about it.

[Alan]

Yeah, I saw the pics. I won't say more about them, so that you won't have to think about it

I also noticed you had long hair, which was intriguing. I wanna say I've never had it, but it's patently untrue. I had long hair up until I was 5, when my mom cut it for me. Then, when I was 14, my best friend, later bf, now ex, started growing his hair out to donate to Locks of Love. He had hair very similar to mine, and I figured, if he can put up with it, so can I. So I grew mine out. I HATED it, btw.

DAY before prom, I cut it all off, which annoyed said bf. I had shorter hair than him at prom, and the pics were... well, amusing.

I then grew it out again for Locks of Love, and cut it off nearly a year ago. Since, I've had very short hair, and ever-shorter. It's now at the shortest ever!!

Re: revealing clothes (not yours, Domi!): even my dresses were very covering. Actually, that was the greatest thing about them. It was a very hot day both days, and my dress was loose and made of cotton, so it never stuck to me @_@

Random anecdotes from prom: Three! Eep! They're short, no worries
1) The worst, ugliest dress ever: You know that color when you hold up a supposedly black trashbag to the light? It's sorta a shiny gray-brown-black? And it's not a pretty color? Yeah, there was a DRESS that color that looked JUST LIKE someone shoved a trashbag over her head. It was SOOOO UGLY.
2) The anorexic girl showdown: I walked into the bathroom (female, naturally, grrrr), and seconds later, two girls walked in. They started having this argument:
F1: "Uh, I look AWFUL. I'm so fat!"
F2: "You're SOOO thin! I'm a COW!"
F1: "No, YOU'RE so thin. I mean, you're like a TWIG. I'm an ELEPHANT."
F2: "Oh, no, you're like a shadow, you're so thin! I'm a hippo!!!"
They were both thinner than the abridged pocket dictionary that I have in my backpack.
3) Fisticuffs at Prom. My boyfriend was in a white suit and INSISTED on doing this ONE line from a movie again and again and again. I finally told him, after three hours, that if he does it ONE MORE TIME, I would punch him.
He did it one more time.
I shoved everything in my lap (we were in the limo) onto my friend's lap next to me and just slammed my fist into my friend. And he usually refuses to fight back because I'm a GIIIIIIIRL, but this time, he properly decked me, and we ended up having a proper fistfight in the limo. Great times.

Okay, okay, I shut up now before people toss tomatoes at me for being so DULL.

[Lora Olivia]

In answer to the original ? I won't say that I agonize over being in boy clothes been in lots of them over the years but I do hate not being able to put on the things that make me comfy

3) Fisticuffs at Prom. My boyfriend was in a white suit and INSISTED on doing this ONE line from a movie again and again and again. I finally told him, after three hours, that if he does it ONE MORE TIME, I would punch him.
He did it one more time.
I shoved everything in my lap (we were in the limo) onto my friend's lap next to me and just slammed my fist into my friend. And he usually refuses to fight back because I'm a GIIIIIIIRL, but this time, he properly decked me, and we ended up having a proper fistfight in the limo. Great times.

Just wanted to let you know that I LMAO at this and say thanks for the giggle

[curse within]

I'm reading a book called The First Man-Made Man, which is about the first two transsexuals (one FTM, one MTF). I'm not very far into it, but, there's a line in it which got me thinking.

"Wearing a dress threw her [Laura Dillon, later Michael Dillon] into anguish so excruciating that she compared it to the pain of having her teeth drilled. To be caught in anything frilly was to be humiliated."

Now, I mean, I hate dresses and I hate frills and I hate looking like a girl, but it was never ANGUISH or excruciating or anything. So.... I'm curious what you guys have to say on this.

Now, I mean, I hate dresses and I hate frills and I hate looking like a girl, but it was never ANGUISH or excruciating or anything. So.... I'm curious what you guys have to say on this.
I don't know Alan Just as you have a hate for it I have a desire, sometimes I wish it would just go away I know I have more productive things to do with my life than to deal with these nagging urges. I know that I am not alone I just don't understand why this hasn't been looked into medicaly, I know curing cancer ,aids etc. is much more important but Viagra come on?..anyways my 2 cents worth

[Cai]

I never felt upset or humilated by dresses. I never wanted to wear them - I think it was Christmas church service, Easter Sunday, Prom, my graduation, and my sister's graduation - but I never actively hated them.

I didn't like how they looked or felt on me, but it was this "playing dress-up" kind of thing. Everyone knew that's not how I normally looked, so it didn't matter as much that I looked weird.

I used to despise dress shopping though. Everything was at least 4-6 inches too long in the hem, and I could never find anything in my size that looked nice. (It didn't help that in high school, I wasn't precisely a small girl. Apparently heavy people don't get to wear nice things, or at least that's what the stores seem to say.)

[CaptLex]

Now, I mean, I hate dresses and I hate frills and I hate looking like a girl, but it was never ANGUISH or excruciating or anything. So.... I'm curious what you guys have to say on this.

I guess I've had varying reactions to wearing girl's clothes.

As a kid whenever I was forced to wear a skirt, I always wore shorts underneath too. Didn't like that feeling of having my nether regions "exposed" like that.

Growing up I wore both girls clothes and boys clothes. The girls clothes were only for something like a party and I could do it without anguish for an occasion, but not something I was comfortable in everyday. (Psst: there's pics of me in girl clothes around here somewhere if you really want to look ).

But eventually I phased out all the girl clothes and refused to wear anything specifically female because I was very uncomfortable. A lot of my clothes still came from the women's department, but it was all gender-neutral stuff which I bought there only because that's where I could find my size.

When I started coming out I tried one more time to wear a skirt. I guess I wanted to be sure, so I was testing myself. It was disastrous. I only wore it for an hour for a cocktail party and I started having an anxiety attack. Couldn't breathe . . . it was really scary. Took it right off, got rid of it and I know I'll never be able to do that again.

Sorry this was a long response to a simple question, but I just don't have a simple answer. Most things about this are kinda complicated for me.

[Alan]

Lex, I totally wanted long, thoughtful responses, so yay!

Heh, I always wear my shorts underneath too, for the same reasons. And because, it's just WEIRD. It's like snakes slithering around my legs, which I can do without, thanks :P

Heh, Cai, I've had the same experience. I'm a short guy (5'5") and I'm very heavyset. Even if I lose the extra weight, I won't be the type of willowy girl these dresses are made for. I'm sturdy.

So finding a dress was always impossible @_@

But! I have a picture of me in one. It's actually my mom's, but it's the best there was.



/shudder. I look so WRONG in a dress.

[Semok]

Wearin' a dress is horrible for me. I used to have to always wear one for my band concerts and then graduation. For band I would always wear pants underneath even though I wasn't supposed to, and it made me feel a little better, but for my graduation it would have been noticeable since I had to wear a white dress. For graduation I just found my happy place in my head and stayed there till I was back home, at which I then raced down to my room and changed.
I'm not really sure why I hate wearin' dresses. I guess it just feels wrong to me.

[Felix]

I totally understand this quote!!! I used to have constant arguements with my motherabout the way I dressed coz she always wanted m girlie and I hated it so much. I never felt right in dresses and make up and anything like that. I used to stand infront of he mirror and try to convince myself I looked ok but inside I was like OMFG!!!!! This just isn't rght Now I only do fem to keep the peace when I go to my parents house and its getting so bloody painful, I will even put a word on it. Last time I went I was paranoid that peeps was staring at me coz I was fem. It did my head in for the whole 24 hours I had to pull on all my resources to get through that one I can tell ya!! So yeah I can defintely relate to that and what others feel around this issue. Felix xx

[Tristan]

I got to admit as a child the dress wasn't an anguish for me. I actually remember being excited about finding that perfect holiday dress. I think in a way that being born female was an advantage that way that I got to experience both sides of gender as a kid. I could be a tom boy and yet play with dolls. Though I have to admit that the dolls and dressing up for me was about the imagination part. I loved creating worlds and situations. I did do more standardly considered male stuff, but I could venture the other side as well.

As an adult, I would find a dress as possibly anguishing. I think sometime between childhood and now I started to resented anything femininity as the pressure built and built on me to abandon the masculine ways in favor of make up and dresses and so forth.

[4serrus]

Wearing a dress or a skirt was never one of my favorite activities, but I can't say I was agonized by it. I will wear them occasionally, but only for a very ulterior motive... they're a turn-on for my spouse. I never minded dressing girly for that kind of reason...I guess I'll do anything for sex?

I have absolutely no idea how to wear makeup, though.

[Wren]

When I was really little I loved wearing dresses and being a fairy princess ballerina. After that I would go through phases of enjoying typically feminine clothing.

At the best of times I really enjoy dolling myself up and being extravagantly female. I like gender bending everything, I'll be the boy in a pink dress, it's more fun that way.

It's the unease I feel when I take off my clothing and look at my anatomical body.. and wish that I could morph from female to male at will.

If wearing mens clothing made me the man I wanted to be I wouldn't feel so crappy all the time.