FTM advice to a FTM lover?

[FTM_Lover]

I used to go for the tomboy/boygirls. Now I want a MTF, but where can I find you?
The truth is that I hate women but I'm not gay. I hate being around a woman. I want a boyfriend. I tried "converting" in to gayness, but that didn't work. I puked after kissing a gay man. This was before the bisexual emo trend mind you!

This is what I know so far. You don't want a straight guy, but a man that likes you for being a man and not a girl made man cause you don't like being an object? Is it a problem if the person only wants someone born with a vagina? I don't mind a penis that was put there later in life.

is there anything you can tell me any advice? Any info? Are there any online dating sites? Cause I never found one, and believe me I tried!

Thanks for reading!

[Kieron Andrew]

[FTM_Lover]

Something wrong?

[Alan]

Speaking just for me, because I usually can't speak for other people (isn't that just the way of the world?), I wouldn't want to date anyone who couldn't date a genetic man. I'd then feel like I was still a woman, and I *don't* think of myself as one. Just my

[CaptLex]

I think it's good that you know what you like - what you're attracted to and not attracted to . . . but I think most guys would tell you they don't want someone who's interested in them just because they're FtM. We'd like to be seen as much more, and we'd like people who are attracted to the inner us (our personalities, likes, dislikes, interests), who are open to the idea of being with an FtM, rather than someone who is interested in us just because we're FtM. Make sense? Don't want to be objectified.

No offense, but someone who is solely after FtMs or MtFs is usually known as a tranny chaser, and that's not the best way to go about getting a date with one of us. Best to get to know a person as a person. Savvy?

Also, in case you don't know, not all FtMs date men.

[John]

Speaking just for me, because I usually can't speak for other people (isn't that just the way of the world?), I wouldn't want to date anyone who couldn't date a genetic man. I'd then feel like I was still a woman, and I *don't* think of myself as one. Just my

Ditto. I'm an ftm, but primeraly (to me at least) I'm a man, and if a guy isn't gay and dosn't date men, they shouldn't even try it on with me.

[FTM_Lover]

I tried to choose to be gay that didn't work. So I have to fake being a gay man? Well are there any dating sites where FTM hang out?

"Women can fake orgasms, men can fake entire relationships."

[Nicki B]

I tried to choose to be gay that didn't work. So I have to fake being a gay man?

Faking anything isn't a good basis for a long-term relationship... But telling men that you don't think of them that way, when they've spent a lifetime struggling to be seen as such, isn't going to be a good basis for one either? Nor is making them feel 'objectified', when they've had the experience of how that is done to women?

Perhaps you could explain what you understand an FTM to be?

[Holly]

As long as you are confused about your own sexual and/or gender identity, you will find it difficult, if not impossible, to establish meaningful and honest relationships with others. My advice? Look within first and discover who you are. Best wishes.

[Cai]

I tried to choose to be gay that didn't work. So I have to fake being a gay man? Well are there any dating sites where FTM hang out?

"Women can fake orgasms, men can fake entire relationships."

You don't have to "fake" being anything. If you're not attracted to men, you're not attracted to men. No one will condemn you for it.

However, if you say you can't stand to be with a gay man, than you probably don't want to be with an FtM. Honestly, if you went on a date with me and said you could never be physical with a man, I'd probably walk out.

Not to dictate your orientation for you, but it sounds to me like you want to be with a tomboy still - someone with masculine personality traits who wants to be treated as a woman physically. As an example of why an FtM won't fill that role, the sexual organs I was born with are a source of problems, and I don't always want them touched. So being with a guy who is attracted to my female body parts doesn't work for me.

[Nicki B]

BTW, are you really only 21? Your avatar makes you look a lot more mature...

[Alan]

Cai said it very well. It sounds very much like what you want is a girl -- GIRL -- who isn't very feminine. Butch, maybe. But definitely girl.

He also said the whole girl parts very well. I hate any reminder of having them, and dating me just because I'm FTM... Well, like Cai, I'd walk out. Probably.

I suppose it's a nice thought if you don't mind a penis that was put there later in life, but I personally don't see a difference. If I have any kind of penis there, it's the external manifestation of what has always existed in my mind. So, in MY mind, that penis has always been there.

Faking isn't really the way to go either, imho. In the end, you'd be found out, and... /shrug. It's just not a good start for any kind of relationship.

[CaptLex]

Looks like our friend gave up. Who was that masked man?

His avatar kind of looks like Kevin Kline in period costume.

[FTM_Lover]

Looks like our friend gave up. Who was that masked man?

I needed some time to think. I realized that I have to do what a man does better than women. "Women can fake orgasm, Men can fake entire relationships".

His avatar kind of looks like Kevin Kline in period costume.

You look like an actor but I don't remember who. Looks a little Nordic, almost like Dolph Lundgren.

[Cai]

I needed some time to think. I realized that I have to do what a man does better than women. "Women can fake orgasm, Men can fake entire relationships".

We're not asking or telling you to fake anything. If you don't want to be with men, you don't want to be with men. Period, end of discussion. You don't have to "pretend" to like men to date an FTM, you actually have to like him as as a man. If you try to treat him like a woman, you probably won't have a successful relationship.

[Nicki B]

I needed some time to think. I realized that I have to do what a man does better than women. "Women can fake orgasm, Men can fake entire relationships".

Bbbut... Could you explain why you would need to fake such a relationship?

[FTM_Lover]

We're not asking or telling you to fake anything. If you don't want to be with men, you don't want to be with men. Period, end of discussion. You don't have to "pretend" to like men to date an FTM, you actually have to like him as as a man. If you try to treat him like a woman, you probably won't have a successful relationship.

Really? I don't really like men. It's more that I hate women a lot. I hate women so much that it hurts. Hate is a very strong word. It's beign miss-used way too often. But I mean it, I hate women, I hate them deeply. I could not convert in to gayness...

So all I have to do is to treat and see the FTM as a man? Cause that's what I did with my Tomboys and they didn't like that.

Bbbut... Could you explain why you would need to fake such a relationship?

Cause it might make them feel less of a man? It's a man's thing, I can relate as well. They wouldn't like to be seen as women.

[valenstein]

Really? I don't really like men. It's more that I hate women a lot. I hate women so much that it hurts. Hate is a very strong word. It's beign miss-used way too often. But I mean it, I hate women, I hate them deeply. I could not convert in to gayness...

You made such a strong statement there, especially the part about saying "so much that it hurts". Sooner or later those feelings will come out around any person you date, and it's a little frightening. Do you think seeking a therapist's is out of the question? When something is that strong in you, it clouds every other judgement you make, that has been my experience.

[Kieron Andrew]

Really? I don't really like men.

If you dont like men then, why go for a FtM? when 95% of them identify as men!!, what makes you think a TransMan will like you anyway, cos eventually they will realise you are with them because you like butch/tomboyish women...it will NEVER work!

[John]

Really? I don't really like men.

Then, as said above, you probably souldn't be looking to date a transman.

It's more that I hate women a lot. I hate women so much that it hurts. Hate is a very strong word. It's beign miss-used way too often. But I mean it, I hate women, I hate them deeply.

ok, that's more than an issue of sexuality. It sounds like quite a serious and deep-seated issue, and I think it's going to be something you have to begin to sort out before you can start looking for serious and meaningful relationships. Maybe you could find a counsellor or a therapist to talk things over with? If you're in England you can get counselling on the nhs by going to your GP, or get if privately. Also, what you implied in your first post, that kissing a man made you physically ill, that too is concerning, and I think you should look deeper into why that happened, because I know plenty or non-gay men that can kiss other men with no reaction at all. In fact, in my experience, it's the people that are having serious insecurities about their own sexuality, and the possibility that they may be gay themselves, that react strongly.

So all I have to do is to treat and see the FTM as a man? Cause that's what I did with my Tomboys and they didn't like that.

Ok, perhaps you're confused about what exactly a female to male transsexual is.

Transsexualism (often called gender identity disorder by the medical profession) is when and individual strongly and permanently feels and believes that their internal, psychological gender is opposite to their physiological sex, literally, in the cases of female to male transsexualism, a man in a woman’s body (there is evidence to suggest that this is caused by hormonal imbalances in the womb causing certain parts of the brain to develop as if they are the opposite sex to the genetic or physiological sex of the foetus).

So, effectively, a female to male transsexual identifies as a man, no more or less so than any 'normal-bodies' man.

As such, it is often psychologically and emotionally distressing to be 'trapped' as it were, in a body totally at odds with ones basic self image -also called body dysmorphia- (I mean, how would you feel with boobs? If the answer is ‘good’, you may wish to hop over to the ladies section ), and as such many (though not all) transsexuals seek medical intervention to 'fix' their bodies.

Tomboys, on the other hand, are usually women who are quite happy being female bodied women, wouldn't even consider gender reassignment or living as a man, but just don't happen to like being all girly and pink.

So, to summarise:

- Female to male transsexuals are, as far as they're concerned, men, and expect to be treated as such.

- FTMs often have problems with their bodes, and would have an issue being with someone who only wanted a female bodies person.

- Tomboys should be treated like women, Transmen should be treated like men.

[ZenFrost]

Really? I don't really like men. It's more that I hate women a lot. I hate women so much that it hurts. Hate is a very strong word. It's beign miss-used way too often. But I mean it, I hate women, I hate them deeply. I could not convert in to gayness...

If you hate women and don't like men, why do you want to be in a relationship at all? And 'gayness' is not something you can 'convert' to anyway.

[Nicki B]

If you hate women and don't like men, why do you want to be in a relationship at all?

I'm wondering the same thing... Particularly with all that hate and anger bottled up inside you, I don't really think you're capable of a fulfilling relationship right now?

It seems to me that you've been hurt very badly by someone - but all that pain and anger is now just waiting for a target (and screwing you over in the meantime). Until you can (or find help to) deal with that, I fear you're going to stay lonely?

[suzy cool]

It sounds like you are hetrosexual. But you are scared of women because of ...whatever....some horrible experience etc......so you think the solution is to find a non-feminine woman. She's a woman..but not scary. So when you tried being gay it didn't work because your brain isn't genuinely wired that way. And when you pursue a FtM you fall foul of the fact that they are, in their own sense of self identity, male.
So what you need is a butch heterosexual woman who gets a kick out of playing the male part. Not unheard of.

[FTM_Lover]

I understand that you guys get offended. If your a male soul, I can understand a little. De-masculination is the worst kind of insult. It must be 10 times worse born in a womans body.

However, I have made up my mind.

So please, please leave me a link to know where I can find Transmen?

[Kieron Andrew]

However, I have made up my mind.

So please, please leave me a link to know where I can find Transmen?

you obviously havent read a word any of us have said, no FtM will want to be with someone faking things...heck no person will want to be with another person faking things....you have to be with someone because there is a connection of the heart, mind and soul...because you like a person for their whole being?