CDers better than GGs

[ReineD]

I've read many comments in this forum from CDers who believe they or other CDers look better than (some, many, most?) GGs. There is a thread in the picture gallery right now from a new, young, beautiful CDer who also thinks this way. Although I realize that not all CDers agree, it does seem as if the sentiment is expressed on a regular basis.

This thread is [SIZE="2"]NOT[/SIZE] about whether the CDers who believe this are right or wrong. I do not pass judgment nor am I offended in any way by the statements. I have noticed that the opinion is generally stated without malice. Beauty is, after all, in the eye of the beholder.

I am more curious as to why a CDer finds herself or another CDer more attractive, more feminine, or in any other way better than a GG, given a comparison between similar ages and attractiveness factor. Is it the better or more feminie clothes and attention to details such as makeup, hair, nails, or accessories?

An explanation might be ego although in most instances I do not sense this is the case. Might it instead be a matter of not comparing apples to apples? There are clearly individuals who, by societal standards, are more attractive than most people. Would there be a comparison of these individuals to the average person who is less physically endowed?

Or is it something deeper? The CDer who strives for and achieves her personal ideal of feminine beauty? Might it be that when en femme there is such a vast improvement, in her eyes, over the guy mode that the beauty factor is magnified?

Please, let's not turn this thread into a debate as to whether CDs "should" or "shouldn't" believe themselves to be more attractive or better than GGs. We all have the right to set our own beauty standards and to believe what we will for self-validation and to increase self-confidence.

I am simply interested in reading your opinions as to why or what it is that some CDers feel is better. Thank you!

[Angie G]

I don't look all that great as a woman and don't try to compete. I can say I've seen some ugly woman out there not even makeup would help.
Angie

[vivianann]

I do not believe I am better looking or more feminine than a GG, a GG can always out do us in looks and femininity. What I try to do is, achieve the feminine look as best I can, but I will not compare myself to a GG. I like to compare my feminine look to that of my male self. I believe I look better as a woman than a man. I saw the thread you are talking about, the young cder does look good in her pics, but I dont like the part where she is comparing herself to GG's. I do believe she is better looking than most of us mtf cders in this forum. my worth. I do love the way GG's give compliments to me when I am crossdressed out in public. Even though I do not pass as a woman, I have alot of self confidence and it seems to go along way to being accepted by peaple when I am out in public as Vivian.

[sara_also]

Personally I do not, and never will, belive any cd,er could be better than any gg. I will not go into details. You have asked us not to get into this too deeply. IMPO I would like to award any one that belives they are better than someone else a big prize. ( Here's their sign ). Just my

[Karren H]

Beats me... I don't consider enfemme self any better than anyone other than my non-enfemme self!!.. Ok... Better's not a good word... Prettier!!

[suzy cool]

Reine, in order to understand the reason for the statements by some CDs , you need to focus on their values and what it is that they are actuially holding up for comparison.
You're pretty much on the right track from what you have written, about clothing and makeup, and that they aren't actually comparing like with like as far as genetic looks are concerned.

There is an idealism associated with CDing that is all part of what makes us do it in the first place. It's a mental image we have of 'femininity' and it's often expressed as a very dressy () version of the average woman. Long hair, high heels, nails, makeup and so on.

So the statement "I look better" is actually referring to the fact that their own image of femininity, in their eyes, is nearer the mark than the average woman going about her daily tasks. If you compare the average woman around town in 1950's America, compared to now...Which, in your opinion would you think a CD (and even women) would vote for as looking more beautiful, well groomed and feminine? Well those are the same sort of idealised values being used when a CD thinks they look fantastic and compare themselves to a GG. It's not quite as vain as it comes across, but more to do with what they are valuing.

[ReineD]

That makes sense, thanks!

[Sarah...]

Well those are the same sort of idealised values being used when a CD thinks they look fantastic and compare themselves to a GG. It's not quite as vain as it comes across, but more to do with what they are valuing.

That's a good synopsis. I would only add that I think it's not just related to CD self-perceptions. Values such as those you are discussing can be seen in many individuals - male comparing to male, female to female, male to female, female to male, het to gay, gay to het etc etc (and any other binary set of descriptors you might choose, in fact).

In the rarefied atmosphere of this forum where, for some, "passing" is such an important part of their journey, such perceptions and values can take on an enhanced sensitivity that may not really be there (no more so than everyday life) and also may actually just not have been written about clearly enough in the fractured method of communication we employ to be able to talk to each other across various time zones and cultures.

Sarah...

[MJ]

i can't understand why some girls say that after all it's so very clear that they don't pass. 96% never will pass when will the young one's learn it's not about fooling themselves in to thinking they do . more about accepting themselves.

And before i get crap over my statement remember where we are crossdressers.com

[ChristineRenee]

Well I think that there are probably a number of reasons. I do believe that some CDers feel that some GG's take their looks, clothes, makeup, femininity, etc. for granted, and so I think that kind of bugs them because they can't be that way themselves and still look feminine in public. I also think that some are jealous in a catty type of way the way some GG's are of other GG's. I think there is some validity to that sentiment as well. Because some GGs want to sort of "compete" with others, Cders in turn want to "compete" with GG's...especially when they feel that some GG's are very lax or just don't care how they look or present themselves in public.

I think many CDers can achieve the feminine look...to whatever degree they are capable of...and probably easier than trying to actually BE feminine 24/7, because IMO, being truly feminine is a lot more than just the clothes and make-up, and the taking of a dozen or more posed pics of yourself to get that one "ideal" one to post on a forum. It's an attitude that comes from within and is projected outward. Some have more of it than others too. Aside from that...I still think it's rare that a CDer can outdo a GG in femininity unless that GG either doesn't care at all about being feminine and just doesn't try, or perhaps is maybe a transman and is just more naturally masculine in their manner and demeanor.

Just my

[Jonianne]

I've read many comments in this forum from CDers who believe they or other CDers look better than (some, many, most?) GGs. There is a thread in the picture gallery right now from a new, young, beautiful CDer who also thinks this way. Although I realize that not all CDers agree, it does seem as if the sentiment is expressed on a regular basis...........I am simply interested in reading your opinions as to why or what it is that some CDers feel is better. Thank you!

Hi Reine,

Any MtF CD that feels its necessary to think and state that they are better looking than GG's is probably way too full of themselves and has no idea that the most prized female beauty is in her heart of gentleness, kindness, sensitivity and love. And that is something we all can strive for - both male and female.

Maybe I am missing it, but I don't see many cd'ers making that kind of comparasion (I could be wrong). I see a lot saying (and I've said it as well) that someone else may look just like a female, particularly in a current picture thread, but not better looking than a woman. Of course there are some regulars who think that, but they are few. As to why they feel that is necessary, who knows. I don't believe most CD'ers think that at all. Women have a beauty, both inside and out, that we MtF's CD'ers can't touch.

[Alys]

I don't understand why I ought not compare myself "in the same league" as genetic females. They're born rather androgynous, and only become pretty young ladies through nurture and hormonal development :3 The former I can't match with naught but power of will for who I am, but the latter I feel to have corrected~
So why shouldn't I be able to say "Hey, I'm cuter than that genetic girl over there"? :X I work hard on my image, I ought to be allowed a little conceit now and again.

[MsJanessa]

I'm much more attracted to pretty CDs then to GGs but least attracted to men---CD's I enjoy in a mutual pleasure with Me on top role---GG's the same and men, well they have to serve Me--I don't give their pleasure a second thought

[Diane CHILDS]

The truth is that with the exception of a few TS's who have transistioned early in life, the vast majority of t-girls do not pass. Don't be fooled by pictures...... I have met scores of t-girls who look gorgeous and passable in photographs but don't look so good convincing when you meet them in person.

A lot of self delusion goes on in this communtity, that doesn't mean that a t-girl who puts in a lot of effort can't look better than a genetic girl who doesn't. Looking good and being 100% passable are two different things.

For many it is kind of a hobby and we spend ages selecting outfits and doing make up. I'm sure if I was a genetic girl I wouldn't send half the time of effort on my appearence in public (for the majority of the time anyway) ..... I would probablly just chuck on a pair of jeans and the bare minimum of make up and slob it with the rest of them. BUT because I only go out dressed in public on average once or twice a month, I do put an effort in and I do get many compliments from genetic females (often in ladies rest rooms in straight establishments).

In these situations I am "not passing" the women are aware that I'm not genetically female but often say very nice things about my appearence..... which is a heartwarming thing and reasures me that I'm doing something right.

[battybattybats]

I think for some it's from a desperate need to have the inner girl acknowledged and actualised.

The links between crossdressers and transexuals are IMO far stronger than many believe with a lot of people in between to varying degrees.

For some i think this kind of statement is required because if they couldn't find a way to be satisfied with that, if they felt that CDing was not working sufficiently then they'd end up needing to start to transition to deal with the gender dysphoria.

It's also true that there are many GG's that are quite masculine and i think many of these CDs are comparing themselves to these masculine women and considering that they look closer to the 'average' woman than many masculine women.

That this causes conflict revelas how shallow peoples views on gender is on both sides, from the comments which can sometimes devalue masculine women as not feminine enough to those who get upset that a CD can consider themselves more beautiful or feminine than a GG.

Once again Transgender proves useful to revealing sexism in much of society.

After all why should it be bad if a CD or CD's actually were more womanly than many GG's? Isn't this showing us all how much masculine women are devalued both by men, CD's and other women?

I have several masculine women friends. Two have outright told me when they saw me dressed that they thought I looked more female than they do. Their opinion not mine. They are wonderful people. They are attractive. We should celebrate the masculine women as much as the feminine ones! We should celebrate the diversity of masculinity and femininity amongst men and women.

And thats not mentioning the FtM guys most of whom in my opinion are far more handsome and masculine men than I am when I'm in my guy appearance.

And I see that as a good thing.

[Inachis]

I believe it would be silly to think that any man dressed in woman's clothing would look better than a woman dressed in women's clothing.

But, in keeping in the spirit of the post I think that it has more to do with pride than anything else. All of us work very hard in order to look our best. Sometimes I think this transfers over, and some of us think that we are the quintessential version of femininity. I have never thought of myself as a better girl than a girl. But, sometimes I know that I look really hot.

This can easily be stated by others as "I am hotter than any other female I've seen". At this point that may be true. In one's minds eye they are hotter than any other female, but deep down inside they know that its an illusion. Beauty is way more about being comfortable with who you are, rather than how good you look.

But, then isn't beauty an illusion? Is not beauty in the eye of the beholder. What we see is what we want to see. It is one's perception of the world that makes up their environment. So in the end does it really matter whether or not one thinks that they are more attractive than the real item? Or rather does it matter that they are more comfortable with looking female, then most female?As we all know women have a vast bit of insecurity about themselves.

So I think that it comes down to pride. I think it comes down to owning yourself, and knowing what you want out of life. I think it is what it is.

[DameErrant]

There is such a wide variation in men's and women's appearances, it is inevitible that some men look more beautifull than some women will. There are many in my support group that are much cuter than most of the women that I see on the street.

Of course, the CDs put in more effort, since they know they do not start out with the natural advantage of being a GG, and when we go out in public it is a special occassion, not just daily routine. (At least not for me!)

My wife is sometimes jealous of me because she thinks that when I am all done up to the nine's, I am prettier than her. I remind her that I have more control over how I chose to look, (breast forms, corsets, wigs, etc.,) but that only mollifies her for a while.

Just as an aside, have you noticed how many leg shots there are on the average crossdressers web site? I think we emphasis them, because of all the "beauty" that we show, they are the parts that are the most real! No padding or corestry there!

[Nicole Erin]

I am more curious as to why a CDer finds herself or another CDer more attractive, more feminine, or in any other way better than a GG, given a comparison between similar ages and attractiveness factor. Is it the better or more feminie clothes and attention to details such as makeup, hair, nails, or accessories?

OK we shall stick to that subject -
I don't think I look better than very many GG's, maybe a couple out there who are really gross but I am no beauty queen. Even tho the photo I take are crap, I feel like I look beautiful while dressed up. With that out of the way -

A few really beautiful CDs are better looking than most GG's, at least while en femme. Not just with the looks but a beautiful looking CD normally does not have the attitude of a hot looking GG. In fact I have told some CDs how they are knock-outs and you know what they say? They often explain all their faults. "Well I have this and that going on so I doubt I fool anyone..." They can be humble.

Thing is, even the best looking CDs are just normal looking guys out of femme. Some are handsome but seldom feminine and pretty, even if they are it is just a little. So GGs need not worry, the CDs are not taking over the beauty scene.

[docrobbysherry]

I can only speak for myself, and GUESS about other CDs. CDs r mostly men, remember!

A lot of it has to do with men liking women that look sexy and attractive! Men r visually stimulated. It is said, much more so than women. Then, there's the "pride", and "kink" factors that may be involved.

Altho I know the female images I create r mostly smoke and mirrors, what I SEE, appears to be an attractive, sexy woman! My favorite images, r the ones I find the MOST attractive and sexy! Compared to the 50+ y/o GGs I date, I find Sherry to be much more attractive! Even tho I know she is nothing more than a sexy manikin. Visually, for me, GGs of that age can't compete with her!

Then, I know I, as well as many other CDs, take some pride in our appearence! Spending uncounted hours buying just the rite women's clothes and gear. Learning how to wear it, make it all match and look good. Learning how to apply makeup properly. Many GGs DON'T appear to put much effort into their looks. Whether they do or not, isn't important. It's the result that counts to men!

Lastly, is something that may be hard to explain to u. I'll just call it the kinky benefit to CDing. You've worked for hour(s), now your female image is complete. U look in the mirror. The male image your used to seeing your whole life is gone! An attractive female is looking back at me! That is such an exciting moment! Then, it gradually dawns on me, that female IS ME! I STILL find that difficult to comprehend after all these years.

Maybe some of this will help answer your question, maybe not. I do know that however attractive Sherry appears to me, there's no comparing her to a real GG in any other way!

[Diane CHILDS]

I believe it would be silly to think that any man dressed in woman's clothing would look better than a woman dressed in women's clothing.

I can tell from that comment that you haven't spent much or any time in Thailand or many other areas in Malaysia or Indonesia.

Try a vacation in Pattaya .... a very high percentage of the really good looking women that you'll see are what I guess you'd describe as "men" ie non op. / orchiectomy.

Get real, there are even very good looking trannies in western countries and plenty of butt ugly women, who take no pride in their appearence.

Di

[2b.Lauren]

Nothing absolutely nothing is more beautiful than the female form both inside and out. There is nothing more beautiful on this planet. Wanting to feel that way and to see myself that way has been something that I think keeps me dressing in the first place. Maybe it is that the only way CD's can come close is when our clothes are on, because all GG's got us when we get naked. Here I am talking again about the pure female form. In my own way mentally and emotionally I know I am closer to that female being that lives inside me than I am to the genetic male being I am, but I need all the beautification tricks, tips, clothes, and help I can get to allow me to transform into being able to match up to that beauty. Could that be the need for comparison, not sure. Just a few ideas.

Thanks,
Lauren

[Diane CHILDS]

Thing is, even the best looking CDs are just normal looking guys out of femme. Some are handsome but seldom feminine and pretty, even if they are it is just a little. So GGs need not worry, the CDs are not taking over the beauty scene.

In my experience a high percentage of the best looking Caucasian trannies/ CD's aren't "normal" looking guys out of femme ..... many look "slightly built" and sometimes even a look a bit geeky as men, but because of their build and lack of strong facial features esp. jaw, brow line and nose..... they can look far better as women.

Quite a few of the best looking trannies that I know fall into this category, they look gorgeous as women and are always getting chatted up by men (sometimes straight men) when they are out, but find it really difficult to raise any interest in women (or men for that matter) when in drab.

A good friend who regularly does photo shoots for t-mags, has spoken to me about this at length and even started threads about it on other forums that I belong to.

Di

[Melinda G]

Some CDers look better than women, some don't. The way I see it though, is that we are coming at it from a male viewpoint. We know what we like, and what turns us on. Many women just don't give a damn.
I've been single a long time, and know a lot of women. I am amazed how many women just take a shower, pull on some slacks and a top, blow their hair dry, and go out to a dance. Then every now and then, these same women will show up in a dress and heels, and makup, looking really good, usually when they are trying to attract some guy. Next time I see them, they are back to their don't give a damn, drab look!
Most CDers however, know what we like, and are into heels, nylons, short dresses, and makup, and looking good. You just don't see many CDers wearing slacks, clunky macho looking shoes, short hair, etc. Why would we.

[Deborah Jane]

I,ll answer your question with a question Reine....

How can a c/der look better than the perfection we love, admire and are trying to emulate?

In my opinion whenever a GG puts the same amount of effort into her appearance as a c/d, [i.e. for an evening out, etc] the GG will be better everytime!

There is something a GG will always have that we can never hope to aquire...Natural femininity!!

Just my personal opinion, no offence meant to anyone who disagrees!

[charlie]

Deborah, for a dumb blond you are right on the money. Natural feminity is something that we just do not possess. Even the CD's that put lots and lots of time to outfits, voice, walk and body language miss the mark...we are just actors. Some better then others though. I think (as others have said) that the CD being more feminine then a GG stems from what they wear on an ongoing basis. A CD usually wears dressy clothes, makeup and heels everytime they dress; whereas GG's get dressed up only when necessary for them. You true ladies have a life to live, we are in our own dreamworld!