Another Question - Open to All

[valenstein]

Um... I gotta get to the bottom line though...

Is it because you guys are fascinated with and want a real penis?

For me, I'm fascinated by and want a real vagina and good sized tits too! Plus look good looking!

Maybe we're all envying what's on the other side!

C'mon Kate, honestly...

Here's a harder question if I may guys? What does it mean to you to be a man? What do you see in someone that makes them a woman? Or vice versa if you stumbled in here like me? Or in between? (self description). Geez, i just wrote it and I may have to think on it for awhile..

[John]

Here's a harder question if I may guys?

Any time!

What does it mean to you to be a man?

I supose for me it meens leting myself actually be myself. I spent years trying to be someone elce, trying to be a girl becaus everyone told me that's what I was, and I came quite close to the end because of it.

So now I'm being me, being honist to myself and the world, and having a future (back when I was 'femail' I could never look being the next few years, I couldn't find any idear what I thought my life would be like, never fatham that I was actually going to have a life and look farward to it).

It meens freedom.

What do you see in someone that makes them a woman? Or vice versa if you stumbled in here like me? Or in between? (self description).

Self-identification I supose (aka see above). If they say they are, that's good enough for me. (I meen I'm curvy, 'pretty', don't like sport or cars, sew, cook, and like jewelry, and I damned well expect people to see me as a man[SIZE="1"]... allbe it a verry camp and gay one[/SIZE]. If a sixftsix ex-military rugbyplayer with enough hair to knit curtains from tells me they're a woman, well then they're a woman.)


Is that suficient

[Alan]

What does it mean to you to be a man?

It simply means, I'm me. 'He', 'Mr.', 'Alan', they feel right. They're like a coat that fits perfectly. It means, I'm honest with myself, I'm honest with others, etc.

It's difficult at times, but then again, hiding it is harder. Much harder.

[4serrus]

It meens freedom.

IMO...

It's a self-perception thing. You can't know what goes on in someone else's head, especially not concerning something as personal as identity. If somebody says they're something or another thing, who am I to judge? As long as they're not hurting anybody.

Personally, well, I don't claim to be trans, or anything specifically (I'm not there yet). But when I think, "I'm a man", I feel confident, hopeful. I have goals and...what's it called... oh, self-worth. I feel like I can be myself (whenever I figure out who that is), and that it's okay to be myself, which is something I have never been able to feel before, ever.

When I think "I'm a woman", I feel trapped and suffocating. And pretty much depressed. I feel limited... like there's some kind of chains on me or something. It's harder to describe, because I don't really know why I feel this way. I don't know if the guy-thoughts are really me, or some kind of coping mechanism. Not even sure if I belong in this section at all. *shrug* Maybe I'm just WEEEIRD!

...Well, that's much as I can say before getting into a huge dissertation about Yin and Yang and philosophy and whatnot and looking like a bigger freak than I already do. :P

[DanielMacBride]

It meens freedom.

AMEN. (Or since I'm a Druid, Awen )

For me being a man means stepping up to the plate and BEING who I am in spite of whatever everyone else has to say about it; it means being totally honest with myself about who I am and where I am going in life (and for the first time ever it actually means HAVING a life, I never had one when I was in girl mode). It means knowing my place in the world and ACTING on it, and to hell with anyone who tries to stand in my way on it.

I know it has been said a zillion times before, but there is SO much more to being a man than just whether or not you have the "requisite" piece of equipment...ok so I don't have a d*ck, but I have more balls than any genetic male will ever have simply because I have had to fight so damn hard for the right to be ME, and because I will NOT let anyone tell me who I am - I KNOW I am a man, and I will strive every day for the rest of my time on this earth to be the best damn man I can be, whether that fits the definitions that others hold or not. Because when it comes down to it, the only definition that matters is my own - I spent almost 37 years trying to fit the narrow definitions that other people slapped on me and failing miserably at it, and now that I have stopped believing anything but what I KNOW within myself, I couldn't be happier

As for the second part of the question....if a woman tells me she is a woman, I go by that, and by the fact that I pick up on her innate femininity (and no matter what the external appearance might suggest, if she is a woman, she ALWAYS has that, it's something that is really hard to describe and pin down but I can ALWAYS spot it in a woman and it really appeals to me )

[Cai]

Once it's not late and I haven't just finished driving a couple hours, I'll come back and read the other answers, because I'm sure they're fantastic.

I'll through in my $0.02 though.

What does it mean to you to be a man?What do you see in someone that makes them a woman? Or vice versa if you stumbled in here like me? Or in between?

It means allowing myself to be me. It means allowing my natural confidence to show through. It means not being afraid to live out my masculine qualities. Sometimes, it does mean stepping up to the stereotypes and holding a door or picking up a check.

It's not PC to say it, but there are differences between men and women. The women I go to school with are intelligent, confident, self-assured, strong, even aggressive and arrogant at times. But they do it in a different way than the men I know. Women aren't any less, they're just different. To me, being a man is accepting that you have have masculine, feminine, and androgynous qualities, expressing all of them, but still keeping that intangible male identity.

And I guess that kind of answers the second question, too. Because someone who is a woman accepts and expresses her masculine, feminine, and androgynous traits, but is still a woman.

It does usually seem to come down to self-identity. If you tell me you're a woman, that's what I see. If you tell me you're a man, that's what I see. If you tell me you're neither, or both, or in-between, that's what I see.

Trannyvision.

[valenstein]

It's not PC to say it, but there are differences between men and women. The women I go to school with are intelligent, confident, self-assured, strong, even aggressive and arrogant at times. But they do it in a different way than the men I know. Women aren't any less, they're just different. To me, being a man is accepting that you have have masculine, feminine, and androgynous qualities, expressing all of them, but still keeping that intangible male identity.

Thanks! PC or not, This sums up my own answer to my question a lot. I wrote a long list of things I don't like about men, but it didn't really answer my question. Sometimes I see myself as a guy, sometimes as a guy with girls clothes and sometimes as a girl, I flip flop at lot in my head.

There have been SO many times when someone struck up a chat with me online, sometimes they claimed to be GG or TS, sometimes they had a androgynous ID and I didn't even bother to ask. I always get a feeling chatting with someone as to whether or not they are male or female. It doesn't take talking about cars or clothes or sports or makeup for me to get that impression. It's always easy to spot the guys claiming to be girls, aside from the fact they can't remember their bra size, it's just a feeling I get. A feeling I had with a TS woman, nothing anybody could say would ever convince me she wasn't as female as any GG I know.

My dad is a "guy's guy". Ex long time veteran, sports nut with a bit of misplaced misogyny, but he also took the time to talk to me when I was young and gets choked up when I tell him I love him. I don't see feminine qualities in him, I see him as more of what I think a guy should be.

I originally posted this in the transmasculine section, since you guys have been the first to reply, I wanted to say this:

At least to those of you whose postings I've read enough to get a feel for your personality, you are more men to me than the gender of male I don't understand. I hope that comes across as the compliment it was intended to be.

[melissaK]

enough hair to knit curtains from

LOL. Now that's a phrase.

As for the thread - Val's question -"What do you see in someone that makes them a woman? Or vice versa if you stumbled in here like me?"

I'm venturing over from the mtf boards, and after some thinking - (a life long desire - you'd think I could just answer the Q off the cuff, but I couldn't) - I wanted to weasel out of an answer by saying it's too complicated to answer; that it's a consetellation of things that make a woman or a man, some genetic, some cultural teachings. Then I realized one could fill a library of just books on the subject of the differences and my answer isn't weasely at all. It is that complicated.

So maybe I can mention a factor or two I think are important to me - mindful that I don't think any one of them are absolutes, and each standing in isolation sounds even more pitiful.

One, is that the measure of success for women doesn't involve besting someone else to the degree it does for men. I don't like besting anybody - it feels bad to me. Men will seek to openly establish their superiority over you by vanquishing you - not just doing something better than you, but by keeping you from even finishing the contest. So a willingness to nuture and help makes me see a person as a woman.
From the guys POV, a guy doesn't have to coddle or suffer the inept - you can say "lead follow or get the F out of the way" and you don't have to apologize for it.

Two, is a willingness to talk about feelings, fears and hopes. Plenty of exceptions, I know, but women just talk and listen better than guys. From a guys POV, a girl can't get to the point, she has to sneak up on decisions and cover unessential details on the way, so directness makes me see someone as more male.

Three, is fashion. Women get to wear Prada and accessorize in color - superficial I know, but still, gosh, I do envy the fashion choices, and when worn well I perceive a person as a woman. From a guys POV, men have smartly kept function more important than form, a sign of maleness.

hugs,
'lissa