How far is too far.. women bashing

[Wren]

..I know there have been many of these threads up on both sides of the forum. And I hate to be a party pooper but there are some things I wanted to say.


What is women bashing?

It's really not just saying "women suck!" That's just the most obvious type of women bashing.

I was reading around the forum and a few things that are said here and there on the board are considered normal feelings about women amongst a lot of the boys here. But I'm really offended by some of it. When women are treated as inequal or inherently inferior to men I find it a painful step in the wrong direction. I wanted to let everyone know.

I do understand sometimes all of us may bash without really thinking of it as bashing.

In the past I've woman bashed as a way to make myself feel different from women. So that I can show to the world that I'm more than a woman. This is a really misguided attempt at empowerment.

I'm sorry if I make anyone feel bad, or offend anyone. It's not my aim. I just want to explain what is offending me. So that we can make this forum friendlier.

Disagree/Hate with me if you will.

[brylram]

Can you give some examples? I'm really not sure what types of statements you've seen around here, and I'm wondering if many of them might have been in regards to mtf members who were being overtly obnoxious...

[Alan]

Bwah? I'm sorry, I'm a little lost as to what you're referring to.

[Cai]

I'd also like to see some examples. I'm not clear on when we might have done this. And obviously, if I have, I'd like to know so I don't do it in the future.

I'd like to make clear that I have nothing but the utmost respect for women as human beings, who can be just as capable and competent as men in anything they choose to do.

[Wren]

I'm wondering if many of them might have been in regards to mtf members who were being overtly obnoxious...

HA! no.. Some of the MTF members who don't respect the board are asking for a little discipline. That's not what I'm referring to .

I'd like to make clear that I have nothing but the utmost respect for women as human beings, who can be just as capable and competent as men in anything they choose to do.

Thank you for saying that and making it clear. Honestly I don't doubt that that's the feeling across the board. I don't think anyone actually means to say negative things about women. This actually pretty much proves that it's not being done maliciously or intentionally.

As to specific examples, I really don't want to single out anyone but here goes.

"Women all seem to fuss about things that aren't important, like make-up and clothing"

"Why do women rant and rave about their periods and uterus' lke it's a good thing"

"I find women really irritating"

These are all kind of made up. But as an FTM crossdresser I identify half of my life with being a woman. This has sort of been my problem on the board for a long time. I don't want to put anyone down or start a shouting match but these kinds of comments CAN be hurtful. In some instances they are perfectly allowed as part of freedom of expression. I just want people to be aware of the way they are relating to women. It's stereotyping really, and that's never a good thing.

Anyway.. I'm almost sorry that I posted this. It kind of rips my soul out any time that I post anything because I'm not sure if I'm being obtuse or horribly offensive. I also feel marginalized on this site and unable to really say anything. I've said it before that I feel like I can't relate. Comments that stereotype women don't make me feel any better about posting. I just REALLY don't feel like I'm part of the 'club'. I'm guessing it's mostly my own insecurity. Sorry

[Cai]

Okay, Wren, it seems your problem is more us generalizing that "all women" do certain things, yes? While the irritations you mentioned might seem minor, I absolutely agree that we shouldn't be making those kinds of generalizations.

I can only speak for myself, but I hope it's universal: I don't want you to feel isolated or excluded. Please point out if we say things that make you feel that way. I know you're somewhat of a minority of a minority of a minority here, but I don't want that to mean that you can't feel welcome.

[ZenFrost]

I can only speak for myself, but I hope it's universal: I don't want you to feel isolated or excluded. Please point out if we say things that make you feel that way. I know you're somewhat of a minority of a minority of a minority here, but I don't want that to mean that you can't feel welcome.

I ditto to that.

I know for me personally, I love women, I just often don't understand them. As a child I remember feeling alienated when I was supposed to be a girl but I didn't get any of the other girls, the boys made sense to me but I just couldn't understand why girls did the things that they did. Now that I'm older I still can't understand why women do most of the things that women do. I really love women and hold them in the highest respect, so I'm not trying to be offensive when I say that women confuse me, it's just... well, they do.

[Alan]

Aw, we don't want you to feel isolated.

I know sometimes I post rants after a number of women all do the SAME. DAMN. THING and it's like... bwahuh wha?

I respect women greatly and while I don't feel the way you do (about being a woman), I don't want you to be offended.

(hopefully, that made sense...)

[Tamara Croft]

Do what I do... either... ignore them because they haven't grown up yet... or... tell them what you really think I'd go for the latter

[Wendy me]

Hi mind if I jump in here????????????????.... cool thanks....women ... men.... persons .... people .....simple try this look at them as people .... there are people your going to meet and get along with and click with ........and those you don't....... enjoy those you click with ........ give space and respect to those you don't click with....... how different are we from outhers?????.............

[Wren]

Thanks all. You know I never doubted that all of you respected women either so I'm glad that was reaffirmed in your answers.

Oh.. and because I don't want any um...conclusions to get jumped to and definitely don't want to be called she all the time. I identify with whatever I want whenever I feel like it, in whichever way I choose to do that. So to call myself a female or transgendered would both be lies.

Whilst I am on the forum I'm he/Conrad unless I'm using my ability to magically morph into the female form as an example. Ergo.. face.

[Wren]

OK .. I thought about it all and this is my ultimate conundrum.


Some boys talk about women having a language that they don't understand. And I'm wondering here where I stand. Do I , because I have queer gender values, suddenly have the ability to understand 'women speak' or am I numbed out to this? Because most of the time I hear women talking about topics that I deem to be retarded I realize these aren't people who I'd associate with anyway. I have a lot of female friends, most don't like to talk in detail about female anatomy to each other, and all are intelligent people who talk more about world economics than about this crush they have on such-and-such boy.

Do the things that I say make people confused or want to run away? Do I speak in a language that only women understand, because I love and respect my body as a woman some of the time?

I just think this stereotype really makes me feel like I might be viewed as a moron who wants to talk about her bleeding crotch all the time. I don't want to feel that just because I crossdress and recognize a male side of my body that I suddenly have more intelligence than the average female.

I have no issue with women who are free about their bodies and their opinions, I prefer that to people who repress who they are. I've gone on and on about my plight with binders and packers much more than any girl I know has about tampons. This seems like the same thing to me.

I've had some conversations with a man that have made me want to rip his dick off, talking about how he hates this 'b**ch he broke up with because she wouldn't let him f*** her in the a**' I know this doesn't represent all men, this is one idiot who with five other idiots was laughing and high fiving. If that's the way all men talk, then nothing would make me want to be male. If all women talked about shoes every other subject, I Also wouldn't want to to associate with them. Not all women are one way, I'm a woman and I sure as hell am not like that. I crossdress and have gay male sex .. that's not exactly typical female behaviour.