Marriage and Divorce...A Raw Accounting

[Tree GG]

...Although she'd probably been contemplating this for some time, I hadn't seen it. To me, it seemed that I left for work that morning in love with my wife, and being loved in return. When I got home I was still in love with her. She hated me. An impossibly abrupt transition. In some ways, I'm still reeling from that.

I know what you're saying. My husband will do similar things....contemplate and work toward a goal independently and advise me once he's done (if at all). Had she let you know of her contemplations, there may have been room for compromise or at least common understanding. That was certainly inconsiderate on her part.

[Nadia-Maria]

This one has been a great thread, and I have read many very good contributions here. Congratulations to all to make this forum being so interesting and involving so many great people.

I won't add my 2 cents.
Just can't resist to suggest to Rhonda Jean not being in a hurry to find too quickly another wife.

Good news for you is that you have learnt a lot in 16 months. And maybe you will learn still a lot for the years to come.
You are becoming everyday wiser and maybe in the course of still 2 years you will become happier than ever.

Once you were happy although not knowing. In the future you will be happier than ever, because you will know what true love is, what a loving wife is, what communication allows.

If your former marriage would have lasted, you would probably never have been aware....


I wish you the best !

Nadia

Dress like a woman, but act like a man!

It's a great motto, Doc. It's mine too. I borrow it from you.

"Have been there" .... you once were. (14 yrs marriage instead of 7)
"Done that" .... you once did (conflicting divorce lasting 4 years instead of 5)
Most probably same kind of wife, same behaviour of the husband.

[uknowhoo]

Hey there Rhonda Jean. I too will refrain from putting in my 2 cents, as you've already received some great feedback. I just want to wish both you and your wife all the best going forward. Love, Tammi

[Annaliese]

This is by far the best posts I have read here all 28 of them.

Hugs to all.

Annaliese

[Carin]

There is so much truth and honesty in this thread. It is also right on the mark for where we are now (divorce process).

In a sense we are victims of life's truth. Sometimes it is not about the dishonesty, or selfishness, or a lack of consideration, or an unwillingness to compromise. The longer we are married, the better we get to know each other. Our individual personalities become more apparent and obvious. Being transgendered is certainly a personality trait. Sometimes that truth emerges that ones partner's personality is not the one that rocks your boat. You have worked on it for years, done the compromises and sacrifices and maybe even the communication too. Love didn't triumph after all.

It takes courage to tell your long time spouse that you are a cross-dresser. It takes courage to say that you will work on accepting your long time spouse's crossdressing. Then it can be hard work, working on that.
After all of that, it takes an enormous amount of courage to step back, look at the big picture and say "This won't work". That the ultimatum you described would just be another patch delaying the inevitable. That you both deserve to be happy in your whole selves. That it is too much to live with the guilt of "what you are asking of your spouse is unfair" , even if he is willing to try it. Or that what would be left if he did suppress it would not be enough, maybe for either of you. That after that many years you should be there now, not looking at what do you need to do to get there. That you are not in love with your partner any more!

Deep down, our feelings for the other have changed. Maybe we are not even sure what that is, but we know that it is there. It is deceitful to hide it, but incredibly hard to say it. You know it will hurt the other. You know it will not be understood. And the best advice you can get is to run to a lawyer. You wish your relationship was like those other people that are so completely in love with each other, but it is not. There is no easy way.

So you do it any way you can.

[Rhonda Jean]

There is so much truth and honesty in this thread. It is also right on the mark for where we are now (divorce process).

In a sense we are victims of life's truth. Sometimes it is not about the dishonesty, or selfishness, or a lack of consideration, or an unwillingness to compromise. The longer we are married, the better we get to know each other. Our individual personalities become more apparent and obvious. Being transgendered is certainly a personality trait. Sometimes that truth emerges that ones partner's personality is not the one that rocks your boat. You have worked on it for years, done the compromises and sacrifices and maybe even the communication too. Love didn't triumph after all.

It takes courage to tell your long time spouse that you are a cross-dresser. It takes courage to say that you will work on accepting your long time spouse's crossdressing. Then it can be hard work, working on that.
After all of that, it takes an enormous amount of courage to step back, look at the big picture and say "This won't work". That the ultimatum you described would just be another patch delaying the inevitable. That you both deserve to be happy in your whole selves. That it is too much to live with the guilt of "what you are asking of your spouse is unfair" , even if he is willing to try it. Or that what would be left if he did suppress it would not be enough, maybe for either of you. That after that many years you should be there now, not looking at what do you need to do to get there. That you are not in love with your partner any more!

Deep down, our feelings for the other have changed. Maybe we are not even sure what that is, but we know that it is there. It is deceitful to hide it, but incredibly hard to say it. You know it will hurt the other. You know it will not be understood. And the best advice you can get is to run to a lawyer. You wish your relationship was like those other people that are so completely in love with each other, but it is not. There is no easy way.

So you do it any way you can.

My wife was someone who always cried easily. Not through this. She had no problem telling me she didn't love me anymore. I've yet to see her shed a tear through this process. It seemed she took some pleasure in hurting me. Perhaps she felt it was payback. There was/is no remorse.

[KellyCD]

My wife was someone who always cried easily. Not through this. She had no problem telling me she didn't love me anymore. I've yet to see her shed a tear through this process. It seemed she took some pleasure in hurting me. Perhaps she felt it was payback. There was/is no remorse.

Your 1st post brought me to tears...I havn't been married nowhere near as long as you were (only 5 years this november) but it reminded me so much of my marriage.

I too thought I was one of the lucky ones, that my wife was on at least the tolerant side.

I want to say more but I'm sorry at the moment i'm still disturbed.

[Jonianne]

Rhonda, you mentioned you pushed the boundries. Did you seriously push them? Do you think that was a major part of the problem? Or was just the fact that you crossdressed at all, was the problem.

I know with my first wife, I certainly took it far enough at the beginning of our marriage (pink fog) to make her very uncomfortable. My crossdressing went into the closet after that. The fact that I still kept cloths and only dressed privatly was a major factor in our divorce (especially after she joined a Christian ex-crossdresser support group which reccommended she threaten me and give me ultimatums).

When I started dating my wife now, I made sure I gave her the "there is something you need to know about me" talk. She cared about me very much and was very accepting and said whatever you do is fine.

This go around I was wise enough to say no, I need to know what your boundries are concerning my crossdressing. I recoginized that people in love tend to not investigate their real feelings sometimes.

We spent a lot of time discussing it and she even went with me to my first triess meetings before we were married. I am so thankful that we did spend a lot of time discussing how we really feel about it and still do.

I do not take her acceptance and support for granted and I try my best to respect her boundries and ask forgiveness when I venture past them. She has also been honest with me and lets me know when she needs space from the CD as well.

[Rhonda Jean]

Rhonda, you mentioned you pushed the boundries. Did you seriously push them? Do you think that was a major part of the problem? Or was just the fact that you crossdressed at all, was the problem.

I evidently pushed them more seriously that I realized. For instance, I'd shave my legs. I'd be able to hide it from her for a while. When she noticed, she'd say, "I don't like that. It makes me feel like I'm in bed with a woman". I'd let it grow back, but at some point I'd do it again.

A few years before everything hit the fan she wrote me a long letter telling me how much she loved me and how she didn't want me to have to deny that part of me. I didn't have to hide anything anymore. Everything was O.K.. She loved me and wanted me to be complete. My clothes came out of the attic and into our closet. Along with this very touching show of her love for me, she said she thought I should go out of town and get a hotel room to indulge this side of me. I started doing that, and did so about once a month for about a year and a half. By the time everything came crashing down it had been almost 2 years since I had taken one of these trips that she had encouraged me to take. Yet, when she talked to my therapist about why she wanted a divorce, this was one of the things she cited. That I "went out of town and got hotel rooms to indulge my crossdressing". That "this was time I should have been spending with the family".

One more point. I said something earlier about her buying me things. Every Christmas, birthday, anniversary, she'd always have a special gift and a card for me at the end of the evening. Usually two or three pairs of panties. It always meant a lot to me that she'd have a gift for "that part" of me. When I reminded her of this during the crash she said, "Yes and sometimes it made me sick to do that, too."

And here I thought it meant she loved me.

[Jonianne]

And here I thought it meant she loved me.

I believe she did and was probably trying the best she could at the time. It just didn't work for her.

Well Rhonda, I don't see that you did anything really out of line. I guess sometimes a person doesn't always express how they feel, maybe because they are denying it themselves for as long as they can. It's not like we don't know something about that ourselves.

I am very sorry for your situation. Thanks for sharing. I'm sure we all can learn something even from a bad situation. I wish you the best. We are here for each other.

Hugs,

Joni

[Sam44]

...That I "went out of town and got hotel rooms to indulge my crossdressing". That "this was time I should have been spending with the family".
...
And here I thought it meant she loved me.

This is all very familiar: in my first marriage I hadn't yet figured out how (many) women think: when I suggested that we have a nominal allowance that we could spend how ever we wanted (or save up for a bigger purchase) she was fine with it... Come the divorce she was upset that I spent my money on things for me while she spent it on things for the family or me. I could never get the idea across that things that the family needed should come out of the "community" back account.

Similarly when we had one night a week together, one night for her and one night for me, she was upset that I spent my night at work or on the computer instead of with the kids or whatever... I never could get the point across that on her night, if she wanted, I'd take care of the kids and she could visit friends, go to a movie, whatever...

Many of the other things you've posted also sound familiar: I feel your pain and, believe it or not I suggest that you not take it too personally. There are always things we can do better, but it's probably time to learn and move on. I now have a wife who understands me sooo much better than my first wife, a wife that I can say anything to without feeling like I'm walking on eggshells, ... All in all things are much better for me, my ex-wife, our kids and my new wife. It just takes time.

[Sheila]

One more point. I said something earlier about her buying me things. Every Christmas, birthday, anniversary, she'd always have a special gift and a card for me at the end of the evening. Usually two or three pairs of panties. It always meant a lot to me that she'd have a gift for "that part" of me. When I reminded her of this during the crash she said, "Yes and sometimes it made me sick to do that, too."

And here I thought it meant she loved me.

Rhonda, we have PM'd on this but this I feel I have to address this point publicly, from this GG's point of view and mine only ......... yeah I did things when I was with my ex, I did it from love of the guy/woman/person .............. sometimes through gritted teeth, not through hatred of cding ...... but because at that time I was pushing my own comfort .... and for me it was my way of saying I love you the whole of you .............. so please please accept that she did give you the gift of love and aknowledge that sometimes it cost her a great deal of mental anguish to do so , that imho makes it an outstanding display of her love for you at the time

hun and like I said it is just my opinion and a view from the other side

[Delila]

Your story is the one that I fear the most. You can never tell your wife seems good with your crossdressing then one day years down the road they drop a bombshell with no warning. Sadly I think it happens too often most can only hope that it won't happen to them. Thank you for sharing I'm sure it was painful, hopefully it will help someone somewhere.

[Satrana]

Well said. Again, not to preach, but in my opinion it is just as "right" for a wife to have as strong a repulsion to crossdressing as we have an attraction to it. We don't understand the repulsion and think it's wrong and unfair. They could say the same thing about our attraction to it. Between those very real feelings is such a chasm that finding a workable compromise is very difficult.

Well if there was a similar repulsion to women wearing masculine clothing you would have a good point. But there is not, nor would you expect there to be because there is no rationale or logic to such thoughts. Everyone has likes and dislikes but repulsion is based upon prejudices and phobias.

You are being brave bearing your personal pain to all so that we can learn from your story. The crux of the matter is why your wife after apparently a strong, successful and loving 30 year marriage would suddenly divorce you over your choice of clothes. 30 years is more than enough time to come to grips with your needs and it appears that she did put much effort into achieving this but ultimately she failed. Why?

We all know where this repulsion comes from. It is a socially induced prejudice stemming from our gender conditioning. It forces CDs into closets for decades and forces GGs to terminate otherwise healthy relationships. Clearly this transphobia is a powerful force and is difficult to confront if you are isolated and without support.

Would I be correct in assuming that your wife never sought therapy over this or sought out a support group or friends? Some people cannot tackle difficult internalized issues without assistance and it appears that your wife is probably one of them.

You said you wished that you had the chance to respond to an ultimatum. I think what you really needed was for your wife to be honest with you about her continuing internal struggles. By keeping silent she never gave you or the relationship a chance.

[jazmine]

Hey Rhonda, Sorry about your situation. This reminded me of my friend. He wasn't a crossdresser but had certain personality traits that his wife knew about from the beginning. He was a quiet guy. The kind of person who thought before he spoke. Not the life of the party guy. They were married for a few years (6 ? i think).... and dated for two years before hand. Everything seemed great. I thought it was a good marriage, and you could see they both cared for each other. Then like you , it seemed she changed her mind over night from , "I love you, to I hate you" She filed for a divorce a couple months later. Come to find out, things changed when she took a new job, and fell in love with her boss. He was married too. The day after the boss filed for divorce,,,,she filed. She used the exuse that my friend's personality traits and the fact that they didn't have similar interests, were draining her.
To me it just seems weird when you said you went to work one day, feeling that she loved you , and when you came home,,,,she hated you.
I have a slight case of OCD. Always had it. My wife hates it, and cannot stand it. I can't see her making up her mind oneday to divorce me over it. .....Who knows....she might......but I would feel that something's a little fishy. And I'm sure my wife would be a little suspicious if I came home oneday and said, " I want a divorce,,,,,I don't like the fact that you don't have a colon, a thyroid, and have a hole slew of medical issues."
Do I like the fact that my wife has a whole list of medical issues, that keeps her from certain activities sometime? No. But I love her and know that this is a part of her, ,,and I will be by her side for support or what ever else she might need. I love her, and my love trumps whatever medical problems she has.
This is what came to mind when I read your thread. It might have no signifigance to your situation. In fact I don't know what the hell i'm talking about ....and why i'm up so early on my day off typing on the computer.
I wish you the best of everything. Sorry again to hear about your situation. May great things come to you
zoom zoom,
Jasimine

[Sheila]

You said you wished that you had the chance to respond to an ultimatum. I think what you really needed was for your wife to be honest with you about her continuing internal struggles. By keeping silent she never gave you or the relationship a chance.

I think 30 years was one long time (and I feel she gave their marriage from reading here and in Pm every chance)

Rhond Jean her self says

During our pending divorce we passed our 30th anniversary. I'd crossdressed that entire time and before that. She knew it. There were things that she was uncomfortable with and I certainly pushed the boundaries. Still, she'd always said she loved me enough that she didn't want me to have to repress that side of me. She recognised that it was an important part of me. She bought me things. She seemed tolerant, even accepting. Even though she bought me things I couldn't say she was encouraging. I thought I was one of the lucky ones.

She pushed her bounderies and still thought she was one of the lucky ones until it ended

FGS she tried until she could no more ............... but rather than try to repress Rhonda Jean she walked out ....... Perhaps she could have done it in a different way .......... but maybe she did the bravest thing she could do for both herself and Rhonda Jean, knowing deep down that if she had asked then perhaps Rhonda would have been pushed back into the closet never to be allowed out and that her love for her husband could not allow her to do that ............