The Victoria's Secret experiment

[Alayna]

Look, I'm a long-shot here from the starting gun. The point isn't to dress like Church Lady on the chance that I might offend someone, it's to stand out. When IT pros and stock brokers are lining up to work at places like Kohl's, I know that I need to make an impression in order to get hired.

Imagine Roberta if it were your store, and you had 100 applications all for the same job. Once you got to my app maybe halfway down the pile, when you've probably been looking at small variations of the same thing the whole time, would you remember me and what I was wearing? How about once you looked through my previous jobs and saw "corset maker" on there? It seems to me that there is some value to displaying my work, especially when I'm applying to a lingerie store. I have no control over the manager who reviews my application - if she finds CD'ing appalling or is prudish (highly unlikely in VS), then I have no shot. If she finds some value in something different, than my chances are much better and I should do everything I can to make an impression. I haven't technically been employed for two years now, and I was fired from my last job for breaking the rules.

So, I've been out of the work force for a while, was canned for breaking terms of my contract (I do have a legitimate excuse though), and I'm a man applying to a store that caters to the sexuality of women. I have no illusions about my chances, but I think it would be completely foolish and counter-productive to try a more conservative route. It would be like saying "yes, I love femininity and pretty clothes, but none of that icky, sexy stuff. Yes ma'am, it's nothing but white cotton granny panties for me!" Do you think the people who work there blush at the sight of the dental floss panties and lacy corsets that they sell??? Let me be clear: I want this job, but I don't need it. I'm very serious about this experiment however and intend to make the most of it, but first I have to get my foot in the door when the odds are heavily stacked against me.

Besides, don't forget that it was Halloween! It's the perfect excuse to get dressed to the 9's. The whole reason I tried this is because a regular guy has very little chance at getting hired there, especially when the pool to draw from is so large. I'd have even less of a chance going in dressed up any other day. Halloween is the one day of the year that it's (somewhat) acceptable to crossdress, and this is when I can make the grandest of impressions.

What I'm trying to do isn't for the meek, it's for the aggressive and self-confident. To bring everyone up to speed, it's now about 3pm and I haven't received a phone call yet. Shall I sit around and hope that I get noticed, or shall I go down there directly and get an interview myself, demonstrating that I really want this job? I'm opting for the latter.

[trisha59]

I agree with you, go down and show them you are really interested in the job

[TerriM]

I think you have a good shot. Your not applying to be the CEO, just a sales position. I think you will bring in customers. Good Luck!

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Besides, don't forget that it was Halloween! It's the perfect excuse to get dressed to the 9's. The whole reason I tried this is because a regular guy has very little chance at getting hired there, especially when the pool to draw from is so large. I'd have even less of a chance going in dressed up any other day. Halloween is the one day of the year that it's (somewhat) acceptable to crossdress, and this is when I can make the grandest of impressions.

I have seen men working at VS, close to christmas. They hire them to make men shopping for their wives feel more comfortable. So even if they don't offer you a regular position. (and they might, I know of one transperson who worked at one), they might give you a ring closer to christmas to help out for a few weeks.

Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.

[2B Natasha]

You go down there and get a job. Do you remember what the SA's where wearing or are wearing? Dress like them. No one can say then that you are to much or this or that or what ever. You'll stand out just by talking to the manager. I am sure a self confident women who knows what she wants is going to make a lasting impression on them. Most people just fill out resumes/apps and drop them off and never go back in to follow up.. There you have a leg up on them to start. Now GO!

[Sally24]

I would not call that a "job interview" or even a job hunting outfit.

The corset is a bit much, unless your next stop was Hot Topic.

Everybody did read the part about it being a Halloween Costume, right?

Good luck. I had an out of work friend who applied and they were serious about hiring her. They were ok with her showing up in guy mode or girl mode. She ultimately didn't accept the job, but it had nothing to do with the company or cding.

[KateSpade83]

yeah, you look too tall!

What's the discount for an employee?

[Robertacd]

Look, I'm a long-shot here from the starting gun. The point isn't to dress like Church Lady on the chance that I might offend someone, it's to stand out. When IT pros and stock brokers are lining up to work at places like Kohl's, I know that I need to make an impression in order to get hired.

Imagine Roberta if it were your store, and you had 100 applications all for the same job. Once you got to my app maybe halfway down the pile, when you've probably been looking at small variations of the same thing the whole time, would you remember me and what I was wearing? How about once you looked through my previous jobs and saw "corset maker" on there? It seems to me that there is some value to displaying my work, especially when I'm applying to a lingerie store.

I get what you are saying but you seem to be treating this as some fantasy come true, even are calling it "The Victoria's Secret experiment".

As lisalotte said "Do you remember what the SA's where wearing or are wearing?". Last time I was in a VS, the SA's were all pretty casually dressed.

One thing you have to consider is the regular customers. As a lot of GG's are weird (for lack of a better term) when it comes to buying underwear.

Just last week my wife and I were at a party. There was this woman who was going on about how fun her sex toy parties are offering to have one for us and continued on in detail about certain "products" and their use.

Later when she was talking to my wife about clothes shopping she mentioned how she feels so uncomfortable bra shopping that she just kind of runs in and grabs a few, buys them, and try's them on at home then brings back the ones that don't fit.

[Jodi]

Good luck. As one who worked for The Limited, I will expound. VS is owned by Limited Brands, so many of the policies and standards of Limited apply to VS. Limited Brands has a very strict dress code. Break the code and you will be sent home to change. At VS, the girls are required to wear all black. Next time you are in there, just look at the girls. They wear black.

Yes, VS does hire males to work as associates--generally around the X-mas season. If you are hired, I would be extremely surprised if you were permitted to work dressed as a woman. Again, this is serious business for Limited Brands. As an example, I had to get special permission from the District Sales manager to wear a santa claus hat the day before X-mas. Yes, they are that strict.

As for employee discount. It is 30% off the retail price. If on sale, you get the sale price or the 30% off, whichever is lower. No discount on sale items.

I've noticed above some girls saying in gest--Can I use your employee discount? When going through orientation, you are specifically told and you sign that you will not use your discount for anyone else. THe penalty is immediate termination. When an employee buys something for herself, only the manager can check out that sale at the register. All employee purchases are logged in for that employee so they have a record of what you have bought and how much you have bought. If you purchase something that is not your size, you have some real explaining to do. Do some of the SA's violate this policy? Yes, and they are fired immediately.

Also, remember. Working retail can be fun, but it is hard, tiring work. There are long hour shifts and odd ball hours at X-mas time. To give yourself a test, try standing on your feet for 4 straight hours. then take a 15 minute break by sitting. Then stand on your feet for 4 more hours. Do not sit down at any time during the four hour period. This will give you an idea on how much your legs and feet will ache at the end of 8 hours. Then as an added bonus, try it in heels.

Then practice your powers of concentration. Stand in a room and know exactly how many people are in the room at all times and exactly where they are and what they are doing. Try keeping your eye on the door and on the people at all times while you are trying to interact with the people around you. This is what a good SA does daily.

Now think about how much fun it is while you are being paid $6.75/hour.

Jodi

[Jennie CD]

Good luck with the interview - I hope you get the job.

Jennie

[Caroline C]

Then practice your powers of concentration. Stand in a room and know exactly how many people are in the room at all times and exactly where they are and what they are doing. Try keeping your eye on the door and on the people at all times while you are trying to interact with the people around you. This is what a good SA does daily.

Now think about how much fun it is while you are being $6.75/hour.

That brings back some horrible memories. A looong time ago I worked at an electronics retail chain through the christmas season. 10am to 11pm six days a week, till 8 on sunday, and it was comission. My brain was fried by the end of the night. good thing the bars were open until 2. Regardless, you look great and I hope you get the job no matter how you need to dress there.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

yeah, you look too tall!

Ahem! That's not very nice. When I comment on pics, I try to follow a "be nice" rule and compliment more and criticize as gently as possible if I do it.

As lisalotte said "Do you remember what the SA's where wearing or are wearing?". Last time I was in a VS, the SA's were all pretty casually dressed.

Casually dressed in VS? Not likely. Dress tops/blouses/jackets and dress trousers in black seemed to be the norm.

Break the code and you will be sent home to change. At VS, the girls are required to wear all black. Next time you are in there, just look at the girls. They wear black.

Yep.

Yes, VS does hire males to work as associates--generally around the X-mas season.

Thanks for the confirmation.

If you are hired, I would be extremely surprised if you were permitted to work dressed as a woman.

Unless Alayna is/going full time. (But I don't know if that's the case)

As for employee discount. It is 30% off the retail price. If on sale, you get the sale price or the 30% off, whichever is lower. No discount on sale items.

Oooh that's pretty good.

When an employee buys something for herself, only the manager can check out that sale at the register.

Saw that happen once.

Also, remember. Working retail can be fun, but it is hard, tiring work. ........Then as an added bonus, try it in heels.

Then practice your powers of concentration. .............This is what a good SA does daily.

Now think about how much fun it is while you are being $6.75/hour.

Jodi

And there's the reality check. :-)

A very informative post, Jodi.

Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.

[crusadergirl]

Alayna i wish you the best of luck but i don't think you need it. Cool costume its a great idea you got. It would be cool if you get the job b/c you worked for it.
Standing out i agree with you on that.

[Robertacd]

Casually dressed in VS? Not likely. Dress tops/blouses/jackets and dress trousers in black seemed to be the norm.

Not in our VS, I guess more descriptive would be "business casual", not dressy, and certainly not corsets on the outside. I don't think I ever noticed the all black thing, but I do not shop there that often.

[Alayna]

I've done retail/cust svc almost my entire working life, and there's nothing VS can throw at me that I haven't seen before - ever had a customer threaten to beat the **** out of you because you won't exchange a phone that they dropped in a bucket of paint? No matter how neurotic or belligerent people can be when buying clothes, they are far more so when it comes to their cell phones and groceries, and it only gets worse as it gets busier - maybe it's herd mentality or something. I used to be the sales manager for a wireless provider in the busiest store in the state, and I also used to work in the busiest grocery store in the entire country (no, that's not an exaggeration - it's based on either gross or net sales, can't remember which).

I think you're misinterpreting my intentions, Roberta. Yes it is a fantasy of sorts to work there but I fully expect it to be a regular job. I go in wearing dress-code attire, do my job, then go home. I don't pretend to think I'll be having girly conversations over tea, amongst a treasure-trove of frillies. I'm treating this the same as a car fanatic would treat working in a garage. The experiment is just a quirky way of saying "hey, I have a lot of liberty here in choosing how to make a little extra cash, I think I'll try working at VS. While I'm at it I'll try and expand their profit horizons and make it a safe and comfortable place for other CD's to shop." You seem to think that I haven't thought this through, or that I have the mindset and experience of a 16 year old girl who just loooooves the brand and can't wait to get her hands on some cheap lingerie. Sorry if that's not what you're getting at, but that's how it looks to me.

Before anybody jumps on me, I don't mean I'm going to set up some sort of crossdresser rewards program or something - more that my presence as a CD will hopefully make it a friendlier place to shop for other CD's. I remember the days of being freaked out by hostile SA's in department stores, and it put me off of shopping retail for my girly stuff for quite a while.

To be honest, retail sucks. You deal with idiots and rude people all day (especially during the holidays), if they have a dress code you're probably already in a hole from buying new work clothes, it's hard work and it pays crap, as Jodi mentioned. It is however what I know, and I'm very good at it. I'm full-bore into my own career right now, and I'm not about to sacrifice any of that for something so relatively temporary. Given my limitations, talents and interests this is an ideal job.

Jodi: thanks for the tips - never heard or felt the need to do any concentration training however. That it's a Limited brand is part of the reason I want to work there. As a woodworker I'm a huge proponent of the Forestry Stewardship Council (FSC). I'm always appalled by how wasteful the Limited is (especially VS), but intrigued that they try very hard to acquire FSC-certified material for the VSD catalogs and retail bags and tissue paper. I'd like to see from the inside if I can a little more about their actual practices and try to be a persuasive voice for environmentally sustainable business practices.

In what capacity did you work for the Limited? VS, B&BW, Express, corporate? I'm very curious as to how they missed this contradiction - any experience from your end? I imagine it's just another thing that gets mixed up in the inevitable bureaucracy of a huge corporation, but it does seem a little too obvious for that excuse.



All this is looking to be a moot point however. I called the manager of one store at about 4:30, knowing that she left at 5:30 the day I grabbed the app. I inquired about an interview and she said that she'd be calling the people she wants to interview later in the afternoon, and then never called. The other store hasn't called either, so I'm going to try them tomorrow and see if I can get an interview there.

[Sammy777]

How about once you looked through my previous jobs and saw "corset maker" on there?

Halloween is the one day of the year that it's (somewhat) acceptable to crossdress, and this is when I can make the grandest of impressions.

Shall I sit around and hope that I get noticed, or shall I go down there directly and get an interview myself, demonstrating that I really want this job? I'm opting for the latter.

OK, I have to adjust my previous thoughts.
You didn't mention "corset maker" before, it explains wearing the corset.

And it being Halloween [I forgot ] when you first went in.

But that brings a question to mind:
How are you planning to, or how would you like to dress for this job? Drab or Femme, I'm honestly curious & it hasn't seemed to come up yet. [or has it & I missed it?]

You are applying for a sales job, stay on top on the manger.
Let her know you want the job & your serious about it.

I once applied for a job that I really wanted & the guy was giving me that same BS.
So I started asking him when he was going to decide [this was a Thur], oh end of day, I called back at 5pm, got a not yet, ok by closing then? ya. Called back hour before. not yet. 15mins before closing. tomorrow. called 8am, 11am, 1pm, 3pm, 5pm.
All he said at 5pm was "we open at 8am, be here 7:30 Monday".
If I would have though "oh well if I get the job they will call" I never would have got that job.
Oh, btw, it was a sales job, lol.

Was I a bit over the top, maybe, but it got me the job.

[trisha59]

Alayna, I think you should show the manager what you have been saying in this post. If there was ever a coherent logical case for hiring someone its in what you've written. Better yet since it looks like your chances are dwindling send it to their corporate office. And on a personal note a rewards program for crossdressers sounds like a great of an ideaand it would make them money. And one last thing, if you send it to corporate tell them to expand their shoes to size 12.

[MsJanessa]

If you get the job, do you get a discount on their merchandise?

[charlie]

Hello Alayna!
You certainly go for the gusto! Going to a job interview dressed gets my nod and salute for being brave and to the point. Hope the manager hires you for your honesty, knowledge of their products and interest in all things feminine.

[Alayna]

Well still nothing from either store. I haven't made any calls today, as I was helping a friend with his hot sauce business. I'm going to call tomorrow afternoon and see if I can get anything. If not, I may just try your method Samantha

[jeniinnylons]

Well still nothing from either store. I haven't made any calls today, as I was helping a friend with his hot sauce business. I'm going to call tomorrow afternoon and see if I can get anything. If not, I may just try your method Samantha

Does anyone know of any men or CD's already working for VS?

I'd say sexual discrimination for sure.

[Alayna]

I'm not quite willing to jump to that conclusion, but it's certainly possible. If that were the case however I still wouldn't take up such an arduous fight.

It looks like for now the experiment is over - the manager of the other store said that there were other applicants with a more complete job history that she wanted to go with, but she'd keep my application on file. Serendipitously however my friend offered me a job making hot sauce today, so I think I'm going to try that out.

Thanks for the support everyone, and if things change with VS I'll be sure to post about it!