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Thread: One of the prices you pay for crossdressing

  1. #26
    Gold Member MJ's Avatar
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    Just remember were here for Lisa she is the one hurting right now she is the one who is the member here... we have read this stuff time and time again.
    the truth is Lisa love her S.O so much that she stayed with her for 30+ years keeping her cding deep deep in the closet for the sake of the love Lisa had for her S.O only to be found out yet Again before Christmas a time were are supposed to put away our hate and show how much we love and care.
    Lisa i am truly sorry
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  2. #27
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    Lisa, It's also important for you to remind yourself your 'imperfections' are not , but rather, 'enhancements' to your male gender. If you like, and happen to be a member of 'URNOTALONE', you can read my blog on coming out to my gg and the struggles I endured.
    My thoughts are with you sis.
    Hugs, Jill

  3. #28
    Samantha K Samantha Kelsey's Avatar
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    I think that many of the above comments are valid for preventing a situation like Lisa's arising but we should remember here that 'the milk has already been spilled and the horse has already bolted.

    They are where they are!

    I agree with Joanne F pointing the finger of blame is not going to help here, now it will only make it harder to resolve the problem.

    Perhaps what Lisa and her SO need now is help to move forward not to look back.
    Last edited by Samantha Kelsey; 12-09-2008 at 09:09 AM.
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  4. #29
    Senior Member Jenny Doolittle's Avatar
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    Hi Lisa,

    Like so many others I am sorry to hear of your troubles and the empending resolve. I have seen my own 35 year marrage with my wife in your own and certainly hope it ends differently then yours.

    I certainly agree with Stacy in her comments, we have the exact same story. I too met my wife as a teenager, married quite young at 20 years old and really thought, "Thank God, This will be just what I need to stop dressing.

    I think growing up most of us have gone through the confussion of who or what we are and why do we love to dress in girls things. As we continue in life we experiance different things, dating, marriage, and with each we have decisions to make about revealing who we really are. I dont know if it was a lack of courage that had me hid my little secret, or the hope that with this relationship I would not need or desire it any longer, but what ever the reason I never told my friends, family. or wife.

    After living with it for your entire life....purging, empty promises to yourself, and finially the relization it is a part of you and finialy accept who U are I was brave enough to tell my wife. OMG It was like a cleansing for me, but laying a burden on her, But finealy open communication.

    Sites like this that have helped me understand myself, 40 plus years ago a transgendered person had no internet to learn what this was all about. You felt totaly alone and felt as thoguh you were the only person in the world that liked to dress. I do believe the internet and informational sites like this help each one of us know who and what we are. It can do wounders in informing a spouse and learn more to making it easier to have an open relationship. But it still is a matter of society to change it's opinion about transgender issues before we will be rid of the guilt that has kept us in the closets to loved ones.
    My wife and I have had several heart to hearts, confirmed our love for one another, but she still can not understand why, but does realize it is a part of me and now it is a continual series of compromises.

    I hope it ends differently in my situation then yours, I have to believe it will.

    If I had it all to do again, And for those gurls facing this decision, PLease be honest, be brave, and have faith in your love of your partner and their love for you. Part of my wife's critisum of me was that I did not trust her enough with my secret. Even though it was my hope I could stop, mixed with a sence of shame do to my own ignorance at the time. she was right!

  5. #30
    Platinum Member Angie G's Avatar
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    Don't be sorry for the post Lisa We are here for you hun. And you don't have any imperfections you are who you are and that not a bad thing. And she is the one with the problem If she would let herself she could get some good times out of it. Just believe you not wrong. And you can vent anytime you need hun.
    Angie

  6. #31
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    Both of you should be more honest...

    In the HBO series, "Six Feet Under" David's ex-fiancee confronts him about his not being honest with her, all along, about his homosexuality. She is very bitter about this and he ducks her abuse several times - while feeling horrible about having been dishonest. Finally, however, he has his moment where he tells her, "I'm sorry I lied to you. But, the fact is, I was lying to myself too." Bingo.

    As many comment in these forums, it's important to get over feeling awful about what you do in life and beating yourself up for (perhaps odd) things you just clearly like to do. You are not raping babies or driving drunk; you are pursing a quiet interest and exploring several gentle paths as you discover more and more about yourself. It's hard, at first, to share these things, because it seems like something that can't be shared. But, the other side of that is that the time you spend on your pursuits is time taken away from other things. That quiet theft of time and eroding of trust, (Where were you?) is what does the most harm.

    The most hurtful thing about all this is not that you're doing "odd things," - everyone does something odd. No, the most hurtful thing is you're doing odd things and spending so much time and energy trying to keep them secret. Why? Do the "cost benefit" analysis and chose, if you want to put it this way, "the lesser of two evils." Better to be a crossdresser than a liar. As for what David said, "Lying to myself..." learn more, not less, about yourself and your pursuits so that you can work this aspect of your life into your entire life with others. You have the right to be a bit odd, you rarely have the right to be deceptive.

    I think you wrote that she knew about the dressing and maybe the breast forms too. But, that you kept hiding things. That really makes no sense - it just sets someone (everyone) up for some upset down the road, as it did when she came across your things. Duh. If it is, then it is... Around here, if I get an idea to do something, I mention it first and then I go do it. My SO can respond anyway she likes when I tell her - and sometimes she comes up with an even better idea! But, having stated my goal, I then, barring a better idea, go ahead and do what I said I was going to do. We've talked about "me" many times and I am honest and deliberate in ALL the things that I do. If, for example, I say, "Let's go see your Dad on Monday" - my idea - I am at the door with my keys in hand on Monday.

    Be consistent in providing for a happy relationship, as you both define it, and I think anyone can get better results. Keeping things to yourself, not communicating, not keeping each person's interests in mind while tending to "our" relationship, just leads to disappointment, misunderstanding, "surprises," and unhappiness. Who needs that?

    And, bottom line, if you need a pickup truck instead of a sedan, or just anything with four wheels that runs better than what you have, then change vehicles if you must.

    Chose better, not bitter.

    Good luck.

  7. #32
    Senior Member vivianann's Avatar
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    I have always believed that honesty in a relatioship is the best policy. I have never hidden the fact I like to wear womens clothes from a GG when getting into a relationship. yes when I tell the women about it they run away from me, yes it hurts, but at least they know and if they dont like it they have the opportunity to get out of the relationship before they get too far into it. I do hope one day to find a woman who wont run away when I tell her about my crossdressing. to my fellow crossdressers, do not bash the GG's, it is only hurting our acceptence of our crossdressing. Kitty, your point is right on, we need to be real, and show our true selves, betrayal hurts worse than anything, I know because I have been betrayed by the ones I loved. PEAPLE NEED TO BE HONEST WHEN IN RELATIONSHIPS.

  8. #33
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    And I thought the price you pay for crossdressing, was the expense of two wardrobes, and two sets of shoes.

    Guess I was shortsigted.

    But being perpetually single, I am without worry of a wife's opinions and complaints.

    Man, am I glad that I never got married.

  9. #34
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    No doubt about it. CDing is hard on a relationship. As I've posted many times, for every SO who is OK with it, a dozen aren't! Keep that in mind, all of you who feel the need to "come out"to your SO.

  10. #35
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    The time pre-1970 and now, in attitudes towards male roles excluding cross-dressing has a parallel in the marriage expectations of males, who felt that female roles excluded what was soon to be called women's lib. A lot of men felt cheated when times changed and allowed the liberation of women. Now times have changed and allowed the liberation of CD tendencies. Whose fault is it that times change?

  11. #36
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    One of the prices you pay for crossdressing

    Many of us have gone through the same crisis. If its to the point that she needs a divorse then there were other problems in the marriage. If both of you were truely in love, then this would be just another little bump in the marriage. Unless ofcourse you wanted complete acceptance with allowing her to show her feelings.

  12. #37
    Member Louise C's Avatar
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    Hi Lisa.
    I have to say that i admire the fact that you are admitting to having hurt your wife. It takes a lot to admit something like that. I don't neccesarily agree with you that it's all your fault, we don't make a choice to be like this. We all have regrets for not doing things the right way, first time.

    The fact that some here have ranted and that some have comforted demonstrates how easy it is for people to discuss difficult issues on this forum.

    I hope that sharing your hurt has made you feel better in yourself at least. There doesn't seem to be a magic answer for you, but i wish you luck and hope you and your SO can come out the other end happier people, whichever paths you take.. Remember though. we're here for you.
    Last edited by Louise C; 12-09-2008 at 04:15 PM.

  13. #38
    Girl, Interrupted Jennifer Cox's Avatar
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    Hi Lisa, my situation seems eerily similar to yours, except for the bit about searching for my stuff.

    For all those commenting and casting blame, also remember that a lot of things happen during 30+ years of a relationship. Peoples desires, ambitions etc all change over time. Also, families are involved, so a simple one line description hardly covers all of the issues both parties have.

    Hope it all works out for you.

  14. #39
    lighter than air! jessielee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angie G View Post
    Don't be sorry for the post Lisa We are here for you hun. And you don't have any imperfections you are who you are and that not a bad thing...
    Angie
    dear Lisa,
    how very sorry i am for you. i agree so much with dear Deja that if disclosed back then, there'd be no horrific split now. wish i could go back in time. but we can't.
    this is my imperfection, among others, secrecy. but it's preferable to losing all, especially my children. i stand with Ange and others, dressing is revealing truth, even when limited by love and respect. it is not being wrong or imperfect.
    we are here for you dear.
    could be in your shoes so quickly,
    jessie
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  15. #40
    Tracy Schapes TSchapes's Avatar
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    Here Here,

    Quote Originally Posted by MJ View Post
    Just remember were here for Lisa she is the one hurting right now she is the one who is the member here... we have read this stuff time and time again.
    the truth is Lisa love her S.O so much that she stayed with her for 30+ years keeping her cding deep deep in the closet for the sake of the love Lisa had for her S.O only to be found out yet Again before Christmas a time were are supposed to put away our hate and show how much we love and care.
    Lisa i am truly sorry



    -Tracy
    Everybody's normal until you get to know them. - Tracy Schapes

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  16. #41
    Vegas Domme rickie121x's Avatar
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    We almost never mean to hurt someone. But it happens, so sad to say, and when it is with someone we have been very close with, it is doubly sad - for all involved. And when it is a family - so many more have been involved.

    But life goes on, and we learn, hopefully.

    The only person you can change is yourself! So if you have committed any of the seven deadly sins, make your apologies, and make your amends. Your partner will react in a manner that is her responsibility, not yours. The results are not up to you.

    The results are not up to you - but doing the right thing is so very up to you. And in a complex situation such as this, probably only you and your therapist would have a clue into what the "right thing" really is.

    You have my sympathy and my best wishes, Rickie
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  17. #42
    Lisa_vin lisa_vin's Avatar
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    Hello dear friends and sisters! Thank each and every single one of you for all of your thoughts, support, friendship, advice, reflection and criticism. I really didn't expect such a huge outpouring and variety of feelings......I am deeply touched, humbled and so utterly grateful for ALL responses, good and bad! Our community here numbers, what, several thousand, and it's been beautifully illustrated that no 2 of us are completely alike or will ever feel COMPLETELY the same way about everything......just as no fingerprints or eye patterns match. The flaws and imperfections are a mark of all humankind and always will be and I think it is wonderful because it allows each of us to be unique in our own way no matter how it's perceived or judged by others. "I Gotta Be Me" is a great line in a song and means so much to everyone but we always have to remember that not everyone else will agree with the "me" you have to be!

    As for my wife & I, we totally agree that we will always be friends and love each other and be there for each other no matter how this eventually ends. We do share a very long history together and a beautiful 13 year old daughter so we owe it to her just as much as to ourselves to do and be the best we can. We also agree that it just cannot be on intimate terms and bound by marriage any more. I am extremely hopeful that we can remain living under the same roof together as friends and roommates for economic and support reasons as well as for our daughter's sake.....at least for the forseeable future. We've actually been living this way already for many months so the only difference would be that she finally realizes that I really am who I am and I cannot change and I think she may be already starting to come to grips with that which I see as a real positive for her sake. (Thrown into that mix.....I take several meds daily and have for years for various conditions such as thyroid, heart rhythm, cholesterol, blood pressure, antidepressants and testosterone shots every two weeks for testosterone deficiency so my libido has been virtually non-existent for many months now and tossing in all our other issues only serves to make intimacy non-existent for ME no matter what amount or kinds of fantasizing, role-playing, techniques, toys or props are used.......it produces absolutely no stimulus whatsoever for me and therein lies the biggest source of disappointment of all for her and the one main thing she can no longer deal with and I really can't blame her for that either. I can't take any of those "E.D." meds because of possible medical interactions or bad reactions and we have ruled out any of those pumps or other mechanical devices.)

    As for the marriage, there ARE other issues involved in the decline of it. Discovering the breast forms and wigs brought the full reality of my cd'ing crashing down on her and served as the final impetus to push us to the point of deciding it can't be fixed and we would both truly be happier if allowed to live our lives as we wish. There are some truly "irreconcilable" differences about each other that existed separately from the cd'ing for many years that we both managed to suppress and live with for years and this one event just seemed to unleash them all. On top of that, we have been growing apart in opposite directions for several years. We now have very little in common in anything........our likes, dislikes and things we enjoyed doing are on two different planets now. We've changed over 30 years but the changes in almost all areas have been drastic and moved in total opposite directions. We truly want each other to be happy and on this we totally agree. There is no big rush for a separation or divorce at this time although we do agree that separate living places might serve us well for a while as a cooling down period so seeing each other every day doesn't keep stoking the anger, resentment, disappointment and stress. We'll just take it one day at a time from here on and see how it evolves.

    So, as you all can see, cd'ing was not the sole reason for our problems but it proved to be insurmountable. Even if we had an active sex life and fewer other issues, finding those forms and wigs would have been enough to put us where we are now any way.....I'm sure of it. After all, I have been with her for 35 years total so I knew what she could and could not handle. However, I was so wrong for lying and keeping secrets about my cd'ing......I betrayed her and destroyed her trust by doing that and that is usually unrecoverable and never the same again. I falsely believed that her tolerance in cd'ing might eventually change along the way because she loved "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" when we saw it many years ago and seemed to express a genuine intrigue and curiosity about cd'ing guys but that is all it ever was......a curiosity........and definitely did not include "her" guy!

    Love!!!!!
    Last edited by lisa_vin; 12-09-2008 at 08:02 PM.
    Lisa

  18. #43
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lisa_vin View Post
    Believe me, any future relationship attempt, if any, will include a full, up-front disclosure of my imperfections so there will be no misunderstandings of who I am and the person they will be getting!!!!!!!!!
    Crossdressing is NOT an imperfection, nor is it anything to be ashamed of. It also does not define you. It is only one of many other aspects of the wonderful person that you are.

    In my opinion, a spouse's ability to accept others for who they are is intrinsic. It has less to do with their partner's characteristics and whether or not they fit into what is perceived to be "normal" than having an extremely narrow-minded and self-centered view of the world. No doubt your wife is just as priggish when placing judgments on other people, and she will ultimately only harm herself as she is narrowing her own experiences. I was also married to someone for nearly 30 years who could not accept that I had different views than his own, and in his eyes I was wrong and also needed to be "fixed".

    I bought into this for many years until I became healthy enough to know that I deserved better. I know now that I deserve to be loved simply for who I am.

    I sincerely hope your separation process will continue to be amicable. In my experience, this is very rare.
    Reine

  19. #44
    Member Clara's Avatar
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    I feel like I need to react to those posts that express such outrage over your not telling your wife before the marriage. Yes, honesty is important. But then, I agree that 30 years ago telling a woman that you are a CD wasn't as easy as today (not that today it is extremely easy). But times have changed. For example, I am the one who works part time to take care of our child, who takes care of the house, cooks, etc. And my wife is the one with the career. And it is just completely normal. Would it be so normal 30 years ago? So, no I don't blame you, Lisa, for not telling your wife. And those who were not in your shoes should not either.

    Good luck to you both.
    Clara

  20. #45
    Comfortable to be me PortiaHoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lisa_vin View Post
    On top of that, we have been growing apart in opposite directions for several years. We now have very little in common in anything........our likes, dislikes and things we enjoyed doing are on two different planets now. We've changed over 30 years but the changes in almost all areas have been drastic and moved in total opposite directions. We truly want each other to be happy and on this we totally agree.
    Thank you Lisa for keeping us informed of your progress. People do change and people do grow, not necessarily together. I know it must be hard for both of you and WE are all thinking of you. Many of us have been in this boat but it is good to hear that the 30 years were not totally wasted. A lovely 13yo daughter and hopefully you will continue to remain good friends. Good luck with your voyage.

    Portia
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  21. #46
    Platinum Member Sheila's Avatar
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    Karren Hutton & Tess.
    yes but 30 years is a very very long time, hopefully there is enough in those 30 years tog that will enable them to work through this again and together, I cetainly hope so

    Quote Originally Posted by Satrana View Post
    Lisa
    So sad to hear this happen. She has spent 30 years with you and is now contemplating throwing that all away because her head in the sand approach backfired. This is why people have to get these issues properly sorted out when they first materialize and not let them be swept under the carpet because you can pretty much guarantee they will be come back to haunt you.
    Suggest you remind her what you have accomplished and the commitments you have made with her over 30 years despite not being the "real" man she dreams about.
    Satrana amny times we have batted heads in threads somehow we are almost on the same page with this one .... the comment about her head in the sand approach is just a tad harsh ........... can you not see that for 20 odd years she struggled herself to accept this, but she hung in there and kept going, I hope they do the same again and reach noasis of pease



    Quote Originally Posted by Katie B View Post
    Kitty, your personal anger is
    coming out, and it doesn't greatly help Lisa or her wife. Surely you've been around here long enough to know why some of us in our ignorance didn't tell all. Lisa is in her fifties, she married in her twenties. No great point in blaming her for the mistakes of her youth now. Coming out of the closet is not easy today; back in the 1970s it was damn near impossible.

    And lay off the "not a real man" bit, please. You wouldn't be happy at any husband who refused to let his wife wear trousers because that made her "not a real woman", would you? Some of us are in painful enough situations without this confusion of the issues.
    SPOT ON KATIE B ................ Kitty you really do have to let stop this anger of yours against your ex spilling over into every other thread, I know you were hurt hun, but he did that and you for so long allowed him to do that ........... you and I both know we were given good advice from the cdr's themselves when we came here seeking their advice and we choose at that time not to ignore it but hang in there hoping it would get better, our situations did not but hopefully Lisa's situation can be recovered to allow them to continue to be tog in their marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    No doubt your wife is just as priggish when placing judgments on other people, and she will ultimately only harm herself as she is narrowing her own experiences. .
    Reine I just cannot agree with that statement I find it unbelievable thatt someone as compassionate as you yourself are could make it


    Lisa I wish you the very best hun, I hope you and your wife remeber the good in the thirty years you had tog and that that will allow you to work through another cding problem good luck hun
    I allow myself to set healthy boundaries ..... to say no to what does not align with my values, to say yes to what does.
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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheila View Post
    Reine I just cannot agree with that statement I find it unbelievable thatt someone as compassionate as you yourself are could make it


    You're right, Sheila. The situation reminded me of my own and I let my anger rise to the surface. My apologies to all, especially to Lisa's wife. The comment was not directed at you, but rather to my ex.
    Reine

  23. #48
    Platinum Member Sheila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post


    You're right, Sheila. The situation reminded me of my own and I let my anger rise to the surface. My apologies to all, especially to Lisa's wife. The comment was not directed at you, but rather to my ex.
    Thanks Reine, I know sometimes we forget but thats the beauty of this family, we are here to support each other and sometimes support means hearing things we would rather not

    sending you &
    I allow myself to set healthy boundaries ..... to say no to what does not align with my values, to say yes to what does.
    Boundaries assist me to remain healthy, honest and living a life that is true to me

  24. #49
    Silver Member Joanne f's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clara View Post
    I feel like I need to react to those posts that express such outrage over your not telling your wife before the marriage. Yes, honesty is important. But then, I agree that 30 years ago telling a woman that you are a CD wasn't as easy as today (not that today it is extremely easy). But times have changed. For example, I am the one who works part time to take care of our child, who takes care of the house, cooks, etc. And my wife is the one with the career. And it is just completely normal. Would it be so normal 30 years ago? So, no I don't blame you, Lisa, for not telling your wife. And those who were not in your shoes should not either.

    Good luck to you both.
    Yes i would agree that things have changed, years ago it would have been electric shocks and a sanatorium if you were not cured, there would have been no way that you could have told anyone , it is completely different for the younger one`s of today , and you can tell that they have a different attitude towards Cding, an openness that we could of never had and i am pleased for them .
    Just to give you a small example , i asked my wife " would you have gone out with me at the time if you knew that i was a Cd," and her answer was , probably not as i had never heard of it and did not understand it .
    And before you jump on my back and say that i should have told her first,
    i had not heard about it or understood it or even knew that i was one so things were more difficult then , so just bear that in mind before you condemn anyone for not telling straight away.


    joanne

  25. #50
    Junior Member gerdaberlin's Avatar
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    I am only 15 years with my wife, TWO kids (1 and 7) and also discussing with my S>O> about what to do about our non-activity, cd-ing being ONE source for that! Thx so much for giving us insight on your process, and DO keep it up, for we all in relationships can only find some meaningful direction from how you handle this upcoming episode of your life. Perhaps even I shall one day chime in with your song!
    cancer man or cancer woman, with double cancer settings for me that is NOT the question!

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