Some of my experiences as a bi-gender guy

[Petri]

Ok, as my first proper post, I thought I'd share some of my experiences and thoughts.

Firstly, I'll try not to repeat what I said in my intro post promise. However, I'm curious to know. How many bi-gender boys are posters on this forum? Can anybody relate to the confusion that comes with being bi-gender?
After all, I am not trans-gender. I have no desire to change my gender and actually I love being a girl, part of the time. Other days, I will get up and feel like a dandy goth/emo boy. I'll don dark make-up, vampirish garb and ACT like a COMPLETELY different person. My Bf says he can tell when my mental switch happens. He claims I sit differently, my voice changes and even the facial expressions I use when we talk alter! Personally, I don't notice the changes. They just sort of happen. Can anyone else relate?

Trying to explain my feelings to people I know is very hard, since it seems that bi-genderism is a new thing, even in the trans community. Most people laugh it off as a fetish, some (in the community) accuse me of bandwagon jumping.

I remember a conversation with one M2F in pubic chat, where she was begging me to "stay a GG" claiming that "supportive GG's are rare and beautiful" She felt that she needed me to stay a GG rather than "ruining myself because I feel the need to belong to the trans community."
She went on to say, that "I was simply playing dress-up and it made a mockery of her struggles as a transwoman" I stress again that, this was in public chat and on voice no less. I had been a regular face in chat and had been supportive to all the 'girls' and 'boys' for many years. However, when I was being publicly ripped apart, nobody spoke up for me.

I was so hurt and pretty much ceased going to chat. I tried to keep going, but every time I went on voice, I was laughed at and called a freak. I was forced to defend myself "Your voice is too high to be a boy, lets hear your boy voice then? You're not a boy!!" and things of this nature. Needless to say, I'm over it now. I simply wanted to share and see if any one else can relate? I am lucky to have a few friends who DO understand and most of them aren't trans! Funny that, isn't it?

Any thoughts?

[ZenFrost]

First of all, welcome to the Transmasculine section.

I'd like to clarify the label 'transgender' briefly. It's used primarily as an umbrella term to describe anyone who's gender is not 100% the same as their birth sex. It can be used to describe everyone from transsexuals to crossdressers. The term transgender can be used to describe a man who lives as a man, likes being a man, prefers to be called a man, but every once in a while gets the urge to dress up in heels and stockings. Transgender doesn't necessarily mean wanting to change your gender (or sex), it just means you feel that your birth sex isn't 100% accurate. It's like with transmasculine, as this section description says it refers to those who were born female at birth, but feel that their gender is an incorrect or incomplete description.

I'm not saying I'm going to start calling you something you don't want to be called or insisting that you're transgendered, I just wanted to make sure you knew that transgendered doesn't just mean people who want to change their gender and the term bigender typically falls under the category of transgender. I guess what I'm saying is that we're in the same big boat, we may stand in different parts of it and maybe look in different directions, but we're all just trying to sail towards understanding and acceptance with our gender identities.

As for wondering if anyone can relate... I know I struggled with conflicting feelings as to my own gender for a long time before realizing I was transsexual. And even as someone who lives full time male, I still don't act particularly 'masculine.' I'm a femmy guy, and I'm okay with that (but it took me ages to get to this point). I know I'm not much of a crossdresser (on either side) but I feel that there's always a tiny part of me that is still kinda female. Sometimes that part needs to express itself, to that extent I can relate to your feelings.

The particular MtF who said those things sounds like she needs to be slapped. It's a double standard to be one thing and accuse another person of being wrong when he or she does the same. I don't feel it's right to ever accuse someone of not being man enough, or woman enough, or trans enough, or say someone isn't what they are because they don't fit perfectly into a neat little label. If you say you are a man today, and a woman tomorrow, and a man the next day... that's enough for me. I'd probably have to make a note in my calender to use the right pronouns on the right days, but I wouldn't ever doubt you're a man when you're a man and a woman when you're a woman. My experience with the trans community shows that gender isn't black and white, it comes in every imaginable color and I can't say someone is not what he or she is.

What I think of you as a bigendered person is that you have male aspects and female aspects, and sometimes some of those aspects need to be let out. It's like being a yin yang, you can ignore half the circle but if you do you're missing a big part of the whole design--who you are. It's far better to be both than to try to live as only half of your inner self.

[deja true]

Hi Petri!

Your introduction about being someone different every day started a 50's cartoon theme song running through my head...and I think it might become your theme song, too

"He's Tom Terrific..
Greatest hero ever...
He can be what he wants to be...
'Cos he's so clever..."

And clever Petri, so can you...

Zen's got the definitions all worked out, now it's up to you to just forget the labels and, like the smartest and bravest here, just be whoever the heck you wanna!

Welcome, bi-, trans-, semi-, quasi-, multi-, whatever- gendered dear one!

respect & love,

deja

[Felix]

Hi Petri and welcome Yup don't have to add much to what has already been said here except be yourself and if that is being beautiful and bi gendered then so be it. Nobody has the right to put you down for your gender or sexuality or anything else for that matter.
I have like many others suffered at the hands of people within the community and had hate and discriminatory comments thrown at me which if I am not the sort of person I am could have seriously set me back I am proud of who I am and Hun you stand tall and that will seriously drive those bullies crazy!!!!
This is a great community I have been here 2years and 8 months to date and I'm sure you will find everybody extremely supportive here xx Felix

[halfman_halfamazing]

i can relate. i guess it's because i'm not too sure what i'm going to do with myself yet but i can.
sometimes i'll be super high squeeky bubbly but other times my voice will be deeper i'll be a little more serious as in 'stop it youre embarassing!' and kinda immature and obnoxious.
i noticed that it'll depend who i'm with and definitely with what i'm wearing.
with my girlfriend-boy clothes- boyish manners
brother and sister- oddly enough it varies. sometimes i'll be the cute little sister or the funny younger brother
same with the parents- it varies.
conditions too.
i went to see the naked brothers band and found myself squeeing in her ear but i've been doing that to babies and cute animals with her too.
but one that is sure fire and never fails is when i'm talking to a stranger when i'm out with her. i just want them to know that they're talking to a guy with his girlfriend and not to embarass him and call him miss!
so yeah, you aren't alone.

[Petri]

*hugz everyone* What you said about being two halves of a whole ALWAYS reminds me of Hedwig. I know, it's cheesy but it's true. Though of course I'd rather be Tommy Gnosis than Hedwig herself.

I agree with everyone. The confidence I get from Petri is immense. Even if the changes are mainly internal currently. 'He' appears to be getting so arrogant and vain that some of it is bound to filter through eventually.

Edit: I have been looking at profiles and I have to say, some of you are stunners! You have your natural androgyny down! I don't have much of that going on, although I am getting there. My boobs are massive and quite hard to hide. So, I kinda look like a girl, dressed quirky!

[_Alex_]

I've played with the idea that I'm bigendered, and I can kinda relate.

I mostly present as male, but I sometimes flop to female, and some of my firends (who are around me a lot) can notice a change when this happens.

But I have a lot of people seeing me as either only a FtM, or only just a girl. As in although I'm quite pushy about being neither fully male or female all the time, no one really acknowledges it. I've also had one (non-trans) friend tell me if I ran for Trans rep at my student gay society, whilst I had no intentions of physical transition, I was tokenising trans people. Which I found quite offensive of him.

In terms of the trans community, I'm quite lucky that most the trans people I know are liberal, activist students and young adults, who dont believe gender is straight forward anyway, and understand terms like bigendered or genderqueer. So they are a support base.

If you find it hard to hide your boobs, consider binding (with a binder), if you want them to flatten at least a bit. But at the same time, I've seen androgynous people with boobs.

[sparro]

My bf/gf Wren (as listed on this site) is like that.

She has boy days.. girl days. Days when she wants to bind and pack and wear loose shirts, and the odd occasion when she'll wear a really tight dress... both of which I greatly enjoy. Even his hair is sychizophrenic... long on one side, little boy short on the other.

On this thread there seem to be a lot of people just like you. It's tough. People live to put people into categories. Everyone does it, you, me, my bf, everyone. We couldn't survive if we didn't. But when people don't try to open their minds to new categories and possibilities, it makes it very trying. All you can do is continue to live happily as you are, then perhaps people will slowly start to understand.

[GG Pearls]

Your posts have been so thought provoking and informative; I have really enjoyed the questions posed, the definitions presented, and the honest sharing of each point of view.

I came to a realization about two years ago that my sexuality isn't as cut and dried as I would like to think I have presented to everyone. There was this very masculine, lesbian teacher that caught me off guard. I had been married to Jina at that point for over 15 years and in all that time I can honestly say I never looked at another man or considered looking at anyone else for that matter. Then I am broadsided by this very strongly presenting lesbian and I dunno, it just triggered this crisis in my life about my identity, my sexuality, and my struggles.

Needless to say, it was freakin' awful. I went home and put my then 5 year old on my chest on the couch, held her, and let her sleep there to comfort me. I was a basket case, completely bewildered.

Well, Jina and I talked and I told her. At this point, I didn't know Jina. She hadn't come out to herself or me. Then she did tell me what was going on with her. We went through hell together. We went through hell apart but all the while stayed together. We fought. We cried. We accused. I tell you, it was a very VERY tough road. After all, we have five kids together! So much at stake! It sucked out loud.

But after tearing it all down to the ground, we have rebuilt a life that is more suited to who we really are. I earn most of our money now. Jina does more childcare and home stuff than I do. She works part time. I am more suited to the breadwinner role and she is more suited to the caregiver role. On the other hand, there are a lot of very "mom" things I do and "dad" things Jina does. We have come to give up the black and white roles we started with and have begun to just give-and-take in a way that feels really healthy and good when it comes to responsibilities and preferences.

In the end I realize that I rely a lot upon the things I learned from my father to organize and make sense of my life. I hear his words in my head, I see myself doing things he does, valuing what he values. My mother is there too, but I definately emulate my dad more.

But if you look at me you don't see the male aspects of me. I wear girly clothes, paint my nails, color my hair, etc. I do not dress as a "tomboy" or whatever. In fact I am uncomfortable in clothes that hide my "assets". Not that I overemphasize either. I don't wear push up bras and the like (not that those are bad, I'm just not the bombshell blond type either).

I find myself in the transmasculine section a lot. It's hard to explain except that it answers the ying/yang thing for me. Jina answers that for me too. She balances out the male part of me. Over the last year I have evened out a lot and I would say that I am about 70% girl and 30% boy. That's pretty significant, I think.

I've never told my story. I find it interesting that this thread, in the transman section, is where it seems to fit best and where I feel most comfortable. And I wonder if that percentage I just gave is honest....hmmmmm

I hope my post isn't seen as too long or as in the wrong place. I really feel comfortable here. Thanks for listening.

[Jessicaparkson]

What was said was definitely inappropriate. It is of my opinion that you be what you want. Male, female, or somewhere in the middle. What does it really matter? You are you and only you can make the choice as to "what" you are.

Girly guy/ Boyish girl, no matter what, you're you. I find it a constant reminder that there are still people in our own community (maybe not on this site) that can't see that. Something I tell people is to "Look past this hunk of flesh. Look at me. Not my skin, my eyes, or anything else. Look at me. Now who am I?" If people will see that you aren't totally defined by what you wear, what you sound like, or what clothes you wear then they will realize a wondrous thing.

[onowic]

How many bi-gender boys are posters on this forum? Can anybody relate to the confusion that comes with being bi-gender?

I am a bi-gender guy. When it comes to work and most play I am stereotypically male. Authoritave, competitive, argumentative, decisive., ect. I moved up the career ladder and into a leadership position pretty quickly considering I got a late start and never did get my degree in a degree required field.

However socially I tend to the femme. I LOVE to gossip and have deep personal relationships, an impossibility with most guys. I mostly played with girls when I was kid, and I'm close to my little sister but my older brother and I never connected except over board games or Star Wars. I usually have a close girl-friend but I'm missing in that area right now. I had one but I married her and the relationship evolved.

My biggest problem has been since we've evolved to coupledom with children I've been relagated to the garage with the guys and guy talk when I'd rather be in the kitchen with the girl talk. This happened before when me and my girl group hit puberty and I was suddenly "different" and was pushed out of the social circle or worse, considered boyfriend material. I've been elbowing my way back into the girl circle, becoming a part time stay-at-home Dad and shaming the moms into inviting me to the play dates. But I've also started gender therapy and started to connect with transgender groups to get some understanding and support from people like me who have to bounce back and forth in the binary gender system.

I do have to be careful, I call it "checking up", I can't reveal too much so i don't embarass the wife or myself in front of our friends, even though they are pretty liberal. Luckily guydom is pretty shallow so as long you can talk the talk and walk the walk you blend in easily. I also have plenty of guy cred because I'm management at work, have the best boy toys of our social circle, I'm into NASCAR and I've got a big swinging... well you know. Also I have a daughter so I've got cover for most of the girl stuff as well. But I do have to be careful in certain situations, if one of the husbands hear's me commenting on his wife's strappy shoes it might raise an eyebrow although he's more likely to think I'm flirting with her.

My SO is taking it pretty well, I'm careful not to encroach on her turf although I think it bother's her sometimes that I'm more into some of the girl stuff than she is. But she also has a husband that not only fixes everything in the house and the cars and does all the normal manly stuff but also does the dishes, laundry, changes diapers, helps with the potty training, keeps the house picked up, ect.

Personally I'm not "confused" like I was when puberty hit and my "peer group" suddenly wasn't my peer group anymore, I just realized that I'm a little more complicated than your average person. I'm just finding that as life evolves I have to chart new courses to navigate the places I want to go.

[mistunderstood]

When I first came out I was plain and simple lesbian. Then I started to ask questions of my-self like "why did I feel more comfortable in guy clothes then girls"? or "why do I look at guys more then I did girls"? So as I start to answers these questions I found out I was a cross dresser but that did not fit so I dug deeper and realized I was transgendered. But then I noticed that I want to have a relationship with a guy. Now I am going what the heck? I am coming to terms with being Bi-sexual and transgendered. I am ok with this but boy it threw me for a loop. Now I kinda just go with the flow and try to remember to be safe.

[Leo Lane]

I'm like that in another way. I am only comfortable in guys' or unisex clothes and the traditional female gender role just is not me, ever -- but I've been deeply in love with a close friend of mine for several years and though she's female I almost always think of this as a homosexual attachment. I present as a tomboy to her, and we're both very comfortable with that; there is no male-female dynamic there, but there isn't much of a female-female dynamic either, since she's not very feminine herself. She's not masculine, though, so it isn't a male-male dynamic. It's a kind of androgynous thing, but insofar as a label can be attached to it it's female homosexuality. It's like that with the other girls I fancy too: I fancy them as a tomboyish girl, and they are usually tomboyish girls themselves. But most of my sexual attractions and my romantic feelings centre on male homosexual relationships. For me the ideal kind of love is an intense, physically intimate though not necessarily sexual same-gender, preferably male same-gender, friendship.

So, to sum up, I'm a homosexual girl sometimes and a homosexual guy most of the time. I guess I just really don't like the idea of heterosexuality.

[justmetoo]

Well, I hope you don't mind a CD'r chiming in here. I find this thread very educational, seeing the different viewpoints and experiences. Speaking for myself, I love to wear some femme things some of the time, hardly ever get completely dolled up, usually in drab mode in public, and mixed mode in private, and I don't really have a femme persona or name so I don't think of myself in female terms (no "her" or "she" or "gurl" for me at this stage).

Petri, that M2F was completely out of line!

We all should respect each other, live and let live, and celebrate the diversity of humanity.
One of my mottoes is "to thine ownself be true", but that also means respecting others have the same right.

Best wishes

[xTwo_Of_Heartsx]

I have a feeling I'm going to be really badly judged for saying this, as I've been transitioning from female-to-male for two years..
But, I can relate.

I think I have a split personality or something.

[ZenFrost]

Gender isn't black and white, despite what so many portray it to be. I don't think you're unusual to not be on one extreme.

[Leo Lane]

Come to that, my nick here is the name of a character in Mary Renault's novel The Friendly Young Ladies whom Renault describes as part woman, part boy. Renault herself wrote, apropos of feminism, "My inner persona occupied two sexes too indiscriminately to take part in a sex war" and in her novel The Mask of Apollo has the main character, Ancient Greek actor Nikeratos, say to his FTM friend (a real person! FTM in Ancient Greece!), "When I wear a woman's [acting] mask I am a woman; I could do nothing if I were not. There are two natures in most of us who serve the god [Dionysos, god of the theatre]."

[4serrus]

I'm bigendered. If nothing else, it make trying to figure out what to wear to an interview an exciting adventure. Do I wear masculine clothes even though they don't fit on my body very well? Do I wear more feminine attire even though I probably won't ever wear it once I start work? A mix? Tie, no tie?

Describing my sexuality is even more complicated. I mean, you can say "bisexual" but that doesn't really cut it. Do you like guys as a girl or a guys as a guy, etc. etc. I could try just saying "I like gay guys, but I'd go for a straight guy or a girl if the circumstances were right", but that's both long and a little tmi. What do you do?