Does anyone else find that GG's seem kind of reluctant to be friends with us? Is it because they're afraid it might lead to something more and they don't want to go there? Or do they feel that, if we're straight, then being friends with us is too intimate? Or is this my experience only? Thoughts, anyone?
I have a number of gg friends. We go out together (with me dressed), we trade clothes, and we get together to chat. They don't appear to be put off by my being a cd. They know me as a guy and trust me as a guy. It is no different with me being a cd.
Jodi
The way I see it, if girls like you -- they like you. If you're timid around them as a guy, it's not going to get any better until you correct that. Your wardrobe is far less important than your character -- or maybe attitude is the better word.
Okay - but if I may - are you straight?Originally Posted by Jodi
I find it easier to be friends with GG's when I am enfemme, I have many more GG friends since I have came out as Vivian. I go out enfemme to dinners, movies, and shopping with GG's when I am enfemme. They dont mind me being enfemme, in fact they rather enjoy being out with Vivian, they just do not want to get into a relationship with, or marry a Crossdresser. They only want to be friends, Maybe one day I will meet a GG who wants to date me and marry me even though I am a crossdresser.
[SIZE="2"]Actually, most of my GG friends want to dress me up and put makeup on me.[/SIZE] [SIZE="2"]I'm married but that hasn't really stopped them from wanting to have a "makeup party" of sorts. Of course, they are already friends with me when I'm not dressed so there is an understanding of friendship and nothing more.[/SIZE]
https://www.flickr.com/photos/vivianchen05
I've come out to a few GG friends as you call them, and so far most of them have suddenly become very "busy," which seems to me that my coming out as a crossdresser has effected my relationship with them in a very bad way. Before I came out, things were pretty normal, but now that I've came out, and shared some stuff with them, it's not that great. Eventhough I consider them a lost cause, I haven't given up on everyone, so I want to continue telling people. I dont really know why they have become "busy" considering they have BF's and we were just friends before, but oh well I suppose
[SIZE="2"]Good friends will work through rough spots in their friendship. When it comes to friends, quality over quantity.[/SIZE]
https://www.flickr.com/photos/vivianchen05
This is similar to my experience...
Well, I guess its a matter of prerspective and mutual experiences. There are a lot of GGs out there that have recieved a lot of grief from Cders/Tg.. whatever. We are not the norm when it comes to society like it or not. We are stepping into their shoes... some of us are good at it, others not so good, and still more who belong on the springer show, especially with their attitudes.
We've seen it here on these very boards with varied threads like: GG's take for granted what they get to wear, GG's not as stylish as CDs, and there have been others that put us at odds with the ones most of us adore.
How are they expected to feel when presented with these circumstances?
In my corner of the world, so far, I've been able to endear the GGs around me and we go shopping for makeup, clothes, and just hang out talking. Yes there have been odd moments, but I never lose perspective that I am a male crossing over into their territory. I've had a couple get downright nasty mostly due to ignorance and the societal norms that they are brought up with. I can't do anything beyond answer their questions when asked and help them to understand some of us a little better.
It ain't easy...but all we can do is keep on trying.
*hugs*
Zarabeth
(Formerly known everywhere as Lady Zarabeth
Some are, some aren't. It's another question where generalisation will not work. For example, not all women want you to "go all the way and become a transexual", as quoted above.
You might as well ask if some catwalk models are reluctant to become friends with coal miners. Some are, some aren't. Importantly, most don't ever meet each other and so do not have to address the question.
Sarah...
So, you've come out to them as a guy? Surely that means their impression of you has just gone from 'averagely threatening guy' to just 'weird'.
Whereas if you meet people in girl mode, their first impression is of you as a girl - you're straightaway around all the instinctive reactions to a 'male'..
Nicki
[SIZE="1"]Moi?[/SIZE]
I agree with brenda above here regarding GGs. that "the more femme/beautiful you look that more accepting/compassionate women are to you".
Obviously, we can't all look the same as the lingerie models out there but neither can all the GGs. But something that 90 percent of all GGs still do is make the effort to dress/look appropriate. Like knowing "no mini skirts after 35". What makeup, clothes and patterns fit and look good with your body. All these things they have been doing since their teens with help from a long list of girlfriends that we didn't have growing up. And these conversations were probably never discussed in front of boys/men. A lady needs her secrets!!
That in mind, the group's perspective of what a woman should be is much more complicated. For instance, If your dress says "hi I'm 35!", your wig says "hi I'm 55!" and your makeup says "hi i"m 15" you know the GGs can't help but notice! And if on top of that, they see eyebrows that have never been shaped, hair(wig) that has never been brushed and styled, maybe 5 o'clock shadow to boot? They would think your not even trying a bit to be femme. They would probably think you are poking fun at femininity in general. Even if it took you 3 hours to get your makeup to look like that.
Moreover, I bet if a stranger GG walked up to a the group, one who had all these problems, other GGs would still poke fun and or be repulsed. But all that would be done behind her back!!
In all, we all have different motives for being M to F CDs. Some want GG approval / acceptance and others don't care in the least. They just like the clothes
TTFN
Josie
It's really to easy to generalize here. Some GG's will find us o.k., and others won't. Simple as that. I met two women who were o.k. with it. The rest, as above, slowly distanced themselves from me. No one shouted 'AAAHHHHHGGGG! Get the trannie away! Freak! or anything like that, but it was more or less a case of them always being 'busy' with other things, invitations no longer being made to their parties (must have gotten lost in the mail excuses, things like that). I don't tell new friends that I CD. I know most of the world considers it weird, so I don't bring it up. I don't have any 'real life' CD friends, I guess partly because I have absolutely no intention of going 'out', and so have no real reason to. Also, there's always the possibility of the CD friend to accidently or intentionally 'out' me, and I don't want that, either. Crossdressing doesn't define everything that I am, any more than, say, someone who collects bellybutton lint, something else that one might not want to bring up in general conversation. My Cd'ing is a carefully guarded secret from most of the rest of the world. And, as everyone knows, the best known number of people who can keep a secret, is one.
Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.
I've come out to many of my GG friends and none of them have distanced themselves from me, if anything many of them are quite interested in the fact that I dress as a woman. Not all of them have seen me this way but just talking to them about it and theyre cool about it.
I have never really tried it. But I know that I would be most comfortable around women - my hair dresser is female - my dentist is female - my doctor is female - my lawyer is female - my real friends are females. I really don't like to associate with men. ( I exclude all of you sisters from that statement as I love you all - we share a very intimate common bond)
Love,
JoAnne Wheeler
Except for me not having an attorney, pretty much all of that describes me.
Thing is it is hard to make friends. real life I have like myabe 2 people that I would consider "friends" and they don't really know for sure that I CD, at least Ihave never come out and formally announced it. I tend to assume people will reject me either way so I will extend an invitaion into my life but beyond that it is up to them to contact me, and that just never happens.
[SIZE="3"]Okay, this GG has had numerous ts/tg/cd friends. And I care for them all the same.
BUT (and you knew that was coming)...
A LOT of what would put a GG off is HOW its presented to them. If you suddenly go from being a male friend to wanting to be a girlfriend, do the makeup, shopping, nails, etc you are often asking for a much more intimate (non-sexual) relationship with them then they would have with you in male mode.
Women often share very personal details with their girlfriends that aren't appropriate to share with someone that might ever have sexual attraction to them.
Knowing you are attracted to women but want to have the sort of intimate friendship that women share can often put any women at ill-ease.
Some are going to see it as a ploy to get closer to them. Some are going to see it as you wanting to make light of being a woman and what we endure. Some are going to just see you as being gay no matter what you say. And still, some are going to see it as you just being "creepy".
Yet some are going to have no problem with it what so ever and will simply accept you as you are. These are all personal preferences that are based on the individual.
Presenting cding as just a "normal" thing and not acting different, not pushing a friendship and not trying to make them be "girly" with you is your best bet.
Also, bear in mind, not all women have that sort of relationship with other women. A lot of women aren't into getting all girly with their friends. We don't have slumber parties and paint each other's toes all the time. As a matter of fact, a LOT of women just like to sit and talk over a meal or coffee. No need to HAVE to go to the salon or the mall.
If you want to have GG friends, treat them the same exact way you would in either mode. If they are the kind of person who enjoys those things, she'll drag you along without any incentive. If she's not, then you pushing it will push her away.
Or so is my opinion on it. [/SIZE]
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[SIZE="3"]"We're all born naked. Everything we wear is drag," said Boy George
[/SIZE]
Thanks, DD. What you've written here is sort of what I suspected was going on and/or has happened in the past - it's good to have a gg confirm my suspicions. Thanks also for giving us some insight into the world of REAL women as opposed to the world of women as crossdressers may imagine it. Any other GG's want to weigh in on this, feel free
Last edited by Tamara Croft; 01-01-2009 at 07:42 PM. Reason: no need to quote the whole post when it's under this one....
Hell yes. I dig women, but I don't go around with a hard on all the time. I treat women with dignity and respect. My gg friends know this. They know that we can be good friends without me always trying to get them between the sheets.
Jodi
I don't know I'm married very married.
Angie
So am I Angie - which is why I have female girlfriends, not girlfriends.
Just a thought - to make friends with anyone, you have to offer something, freely?
Nicki
[SIZE="1"]Moi?[/SIZE]
Agree Completely...!
Other than wife and daughter, ive come out to 1 GG friend, she is also a co-worker.
Only a slight change in the relationship, for the better in my opinion, she has done my nails, bought me nail polish, invited me to go with her to the gun range on ladies night. Once invited me out for drinks with the girls, followed by joining them at they're house to dress me up in they're cloths.
"I am Yin & Yang, North & South, Night & Day, Feminine & Masculine" [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64235483@N02/
I actually have found it easy to be friends with women, all my closest women friends have known and been supportive and even gone out with me in public...Several years ago a friend and went dress shopping at Neiman Marcus, a high dollar store and we shared a changing room to try on 300.00 little black dresses, she was looking for one to wear to an xmas party
So I havent had a problem here in Dallas. Most have been younger than I am. One of my closes friend was my age, the others maybe 8-10 yrs younger
I havent had that problem I had a good friend (before she got married) and I had been friends with her for maybe 3 yrs before i told her and it actually improved our friendship to where she enjoyed being with me as a girl, so it really depends on the individual I guess
Last edited by Tamara Croft; 01-01-2009 at 07:43 PM. Reason: multiposting is not allowed, use the multiquote button.
the GG's that I told were friends of mine for about two years before I came out to them, which is why their distance and actions stick out so much. I'm not totally aginst the idea that they actually are busy or whatever, but it's so fishy and out of the blue that it makes it hard to believe and not judge them.
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