HR Conversation, don't know what to think.

[MarcieM]

It is interesting that if you were a woman wearing suits or other male attire to work, this conversation would never have happened. You may want to mention the double standard to the HR person.

This would probably be the WORST thing you could do. Coming across as confrontational is the LAST thing you want to do.

Definitely REMOVE the CAPS from that letter. I would also re-think the part abourt telling them that you're transitioning. I think it would be in your best interest to say that you are. Transitioning does not have to mean anything surgical.

[Sedona]

This would probably be the WORST thing you could do. Coming across as confrontational is the LAST thing you want to do.

Definitely REMOVE the CAPS from that letter. I would also re-think the part abourt telling them that you're transitioning. I think it would be in your best interest to say that you are. Transitioning does not have to mean anything surgical.

Agree very much. Now is not the time to go all Stonewall. You just want them to know you're a good worker, and play well with others.

[Paulacder]

I would not volunteer any more information than H.R. already has. Let them draw their own conclusions. It was a common practice at the company that I worked for to tape conversations that took place in the H.R. dept. without you'r knowledge. Most of these H.R. reps. are skilled and trained and schooled to seek out information from employes.....My 2 cents...

[melissacd]

My 2 Cents,

Don't provide the letter. Meet the HR person over lunch in a quiet booth or somewhere where there is less chance of recording and then thank her for approaching you on this and tell the honest truth about who you are and what you want to do.

There is an opportunity here, but keep it polite, professional, answer her questions if appropriate (some questions my not be and so just indicate that you feel a particular question is too personal) and get a sense of how she feels it could/should be handled.

I am going through the same thought process in that I want to finally sit down with the owner of the company and have a chat about my situation as well, I too dress a bit over the top for a male and I am sure they are wondering too.

It is just another step in our evolution.

Huggs
Melissa

[Nicki B]

Ok, you were caught off guard.... but you are transitioning. The pictures don't lie. Look at them????

BUT - many of us don't need to go all the way?


FWIW, I would speak to the HR rep and not put anything in writing at this stage?

[Nigella]

I was in a similar situation when I first went 24/7. I am not TS, but prefer to express my female side all the time. I have no feelings towards SRS or hormones.

As an individual we have the right to wear what we like, unless there are specific laws, or in the case of work, specific regulations within your company's rules and procedures.

I took the bull by the horns and approached the company I worked for, informing them exactly how I would be dressing for work. I was totally honest with them and in return they supported me.

I eventually left for another job, and right from the outset, even during the application process, the new (prospective) employer was informed of my transgenderism (or as they were informed my crossdressing).

I was asked the usual question, do you intend to transition? My response was as before, No.

In my new line of work I meet parents of young people with autism, and yes there have been questions from the parents to my employer. In response to this my employer has been totally discrete, informing the parent that I have all the required checks carried out to work with the vulnerable young people, and that my crossdressing is irrelevant.

So in a nutshell, be honest with your employer, do it face to face, but let them lead, and you can follow. Your letter seems to be defensive, and judging from your initial post, there appears to be no reason for this.

Meet with the most relevant people, your HR dept and your immediate superior, lay the cards on the table and see how the hand developes. Then just take it from there.

[Jenna1561]

Hi Kim,
I'm in a very similar situation at work and have been looking for that talk to come from my supervisor, manager or HR. Whenever one of them says they'd like to talk to me, I assume this is it. But for me it hasn't materialized yet...

Hi Kim,

I mentioned in an earlier post that I'm in a similar situation at work, but as of yet nothing has officially come of it. I know people talk how could they not. Though we're in vastly different states (PA vs TX) and I'm certain different sets of laws that do or do not protect us, I am very interested in the outcome of this event. I may be in for similar.

Not being in transition, I still must abide by the male employees' dress policy, which to sum up says - neat and clean professional appearance with a collared shirt. The collar requirement leaves out a lot of nice tops for me, but I need to remain an exemplary employee. I typically wear women's clothing that in my opinion meets the dress policy. I also wear earrings and other jewelry, light makeup, and style my hair a bit more feminine (at least I hope it appears that way).

I know people talk, but no one has said a word to me. I did hear a rumour yesterday, that the company was considering updating their dress and appearance policy. I wonder if that's a result of my dressing.

Good Luck and I hope you decide to talk with your HR Rep instead of writing the letter. Jenna

[DonnaT]

[SIZE="2"]

I have a RIGHT to be exactly who I am and express it openly.

[/SIZE]
Do you?
I suggest --I believe I have a right to be exactly who I am and express it openly.--
Know the law in your jurisdiction. For example, Allentown has laws based on gender,

April 4, 2002

Allentown City Council voted to amend the city's human relations ordinance Wednesday, adding sexual orientation and gender identity to the law's list of protected classes.

In doing so, Allentown became the 230th municipality in the country to extend employment, housing and other protections to people based on their sexual orientation.

It became the first city in Pennsylvania to add gender identity as a protected status in its human relations law.

Gender identity can refer to transsexuals or cross-dressers, but also men and women who simply appear opposite their sex.

Is your office in Allentown?

[MJ]

sorry but i don't like the letter idea. it's better in person that way you can answer her questions in person and it's less formal and letter can be used against you too

[DonnaT]

Remember, according to Federal law - "At will" employees can be terminated from employment at any time for any reason, and certain "for cause" employees (e.g., under contract, member of a union) cannot be terminated unless the employer shows "cause" for doing so.
All states are employment at will states, meaning that they all uphold the Doctrine to some degree. To what degree regarding employers' rights to discharge employees, varies by state.

Pennsylvania Human Relations Commission at 1-717-787-4410.

Texas

[Kimberly Marie Kelly]

The letter which I emailed to myself at work, apparently was never sent from my Outlook client, I shutdown my computer too fast this morning and the email was never sent. So I did not have the letter to give her. I decided this afternoon to arrange a meeting with her tomorrow morning to discuss what was said Monday morning. To clarify to her where I am, ask her what comments she heard, ask about the companies policies etc. and what help the company would provide if I chose to transition in the future and more importantly, what was said to my immediate manager and dept director.

So in a small way by not getting the email this morning at work I think was a good thing, based on what alot of you have said. I will keep everyone informed of what happens.

To answer some of your questions my office is not in Allentown PA, it is in Bethlehem so the laws of Allentown don't apply here. As far as physical transitioning , that isn't in the cards as of yet, maybe in the future. My level of transitioning is that I like to dress femininely and it is getting to be a stronger desire in my life. In time if I was financially able to do it I might consider transitioning physically, but I think that is far off in the future. For me to dress femininely, wear makeup and jewelry is where I'm at. Don't necessarily need to wear dresses or skirts, fem pants are okay. Any further advice is helpful, please keep sending it. Kimberly

[Emily Anderson]

You don't say whether you ARE transitioning or not.

In any case, it sounds like HR is supportive, so why not just tell them what's going on, and also make sure you know where you're going for yourself.

[StaceyJane]

First, I think you look so much younger and better now but the mix and match gender clothing does not work. I can understand going into denial with the HR person, I would probably do the same but let's face it, if this is how you are going to work then everyone's figured you out. Since you have the HR's blessing you should just start going all femme. Don't worry about what people will say because I can garentee they are already saying it.
I would like to imagine that if my HR rep said it was okay to transition I would be all girl from then on but since I work for the Army it's probably not going to happen.
Plus I'm too chicken anyway.

[Sally24]

Before you send in The Letter, please review your Company's policies and procedures manual. It may have a great policy regarding TS person's in transition, but there may be no protections for The Transgendered who are not actively transitioning.

Generally, if they don't give full protection to non-transitioning individuals, what they are looking for is consistancy. They don't want employees coming in looking like your old self one day and then coming in a dress and full makeup the next. The same with bathroom policy. Just review the policy manual and see just what they seem to want and allow.

If I were you I would take this opportunity to dress a little more openly (maybe just the wig in addition to how you dress now) and just be myself. It's up to you to decide just what that is. Good luck and enjoy!

[Lainie]

At work, I never write anything in e-mail or paper or even voicemail that might be embarrassing to me or anyone else. Delicate subjects are always better handled face-to-face, where you can engage in two-way communication.

But of course, be honest. And also grateful! Sounds like your HR rep was very sensitive--you should thank her for that explicitly. She may also have advice about dealing with co-workers.

And, yes, you do look better with the hair in the avatar. You might get a better reception from colleagues if you drop the necklace and adopt the hair.

[paulaN]

I would say tread lightly and move forward cautiously. I also think the your HR is looking out for you, So they don't get slaped with some kind of harassment law suit.

[Jenna1561]

If your talk with HR goes well and she states that your gender presentation is supported, what questions are you considering posing. I've given it a little thought and might ask

• Is this conversation confidential between her and you? If not, who else will she be telling? Will your immediate supervisor and or department manager be told before you're ready for them to know?
• Assuming you're not/haven't changed your legal name, would they support/allow the everyday use of a femme name? Would you be allowed to use the femme name for company email, nameplates, and other non-legal documents?
• What is the restroom issue? I don't know if they'd allow you to use a women's restroom if you're not transitioning or would they? Is there a unisex single occupant restroom facility?
• How should you be introduced to clients? If you are presenting as female, would they allow you to use a femme name? If you have to sign documents for the client, I imagine you would be required to use your legal name, but I don't know.

So, besides explaining your story and listening to what she (the company) has to say, you might want to be prepared with some questions of your own. I'm sure there are many other questions you'd have. Perhaps jotting them down to reference would be a good idea.

I have no idea what she may ask legally. Are you prepared to answer questions about therapy and/or diagnosis. I don't know if you have to answer those questions. Maybe someone else has a better understanding of labor law.

I really do wish you the best. She sounds supportive, but play your hand cautiously. Only reveal what you have to, need to, and/or feel comfortable with.

Hugs,

Jenna

[Jamie001]

It is important to understand that not everyone wants to go "ALL FEMME". Some folks are quite satisfied presenting as a feminized male. So many folks on the website don't accept that concept.

First, I think you look so much younger and better now but the mix and match gender clothing does not work. I can understand going into denial with the HR person, I would probably do the same but let's face it, if this is how you are going to work then everyone's figured you out. Since you have the HR's blessing you should just start going all femme. Don't worry about what people will say because I can garentee they are already saying it.
I would like to imagine that if my HR rep said it was okay to transition I would be all girl from then on but since I work for the Army it's probably not going to happen.
Plus I'm too chicken anyway.

[Nicki B]

What is the restroom issue? I don't know if they'd allow you to use a women's restroom if you're not transitioning or would they? Is there a unisex single occupant restroom facility?

That seems to me a very important issue - if you're not in the process of transitioning, should you use the ladies? But how comfortable will you be as a femme/androgenous guy in the mens??

It's the one thing that's likely to cause the most grief with your colleagues.

[Kimberly Marie Kelly]

The beginnings of this started weeks ago over 'Eye Brows' of all things.

I spoke with my HR manager Elaine and started by letting her know that when she asked questions Monday, if I was transitioning etc and other questions, that I was caught off guard and wasn't ready emotionally to talk about them. She understood, I continued to explain that for about 45 years I have felt more feminine than male and that as I have gotten older the desire to express my femininity has grown stronger. This being expressed by my wearing makeup, jewelry and feminine blouses from time to time at work. I further explained that at the stage I'm at, I'm not ready emotionally to present or transition as 100% female, but maybe in the future I would. She explained that if I wanted to fully transition counseling would be recommended on my part and that they would need some proof from a doctor that I am transitioning.

So first part of my outing at work is done, my HR person knows I'm TG.

The second part was I wanted to know what comments were said about me and where they came from. Well, she said that she has noticed some snickering from warehouse workers and overheard some comments, and she told the employees that she does not want to ever hear comments like those again about any employee. She also said one employee came to her office to comment about my appearance, wearing makeup and jewelry and she told the employee that I'm not violating any dress code and I'm intitled to dress and wear jewelry. I asked her if the manner that I dress was in violation of the dress code and she said 'No'.

The third part was she mentioned she spoke with my immediate manager who is located in a different state and I wanted to know what was said. What she told me was that my Manager called her first, asking her why I have penciled eyebrow's? His concern was that if and when I go out on calls to install & repair computers that I may look un-professional. He had visited me about 5 weeks ago for a semi-annual performance review. She called her boss to see if there was an issue from the Companies stand-point about a guy having shaped, stenciled eyebrows, there wasn't so she called my boss and his boss on a conference call to discuss it. Nothing other than that was discussed.

Because of that concern an "EyeBrow", and the comments and the one employee who complained about my appearance, she called me in to know if I was transitioning and needed help or support. So now because of all this there is one person in my company that knows of my Transgender status. So I have been outed at work to HR. At his stage of my journey I am not ready to transition and present as female 24/7, but I know now if I want to present 100% female that my HR dept will support me.

But the wearing of makeup and jewelry is okay, feminine blouses okay as long as they are not revealing etc.. I'm not intending to wear dress's or wig's yet. I told her that from my personal opinion that I look much younger, more professional than I did when I first started working. She did not remember how I looked when I first started working, with facial hair, beard & moustache etc., so I sent her some pictures from roughly 2 years ago, 1 year ago and recent and she commented that I look much better 'now' than 'then'.

I thanked her for her caring approach in this matter and she told me everything we talked about today stays between her and me. All I can say is that another large weight has been removed from my shoulders, someone at work now knows about me and I can dress & wear makeup the way I've been without issue now. Now, as I grow more confident in my femininity the option to go 24/7 in the future is a stronger possibilty. I will still wait till the economy improves before considering 24/7.

I want to thank all my sisters for the advice they provided, the encouragment, the support and love they showed in their words. Thanks.

A relieved Kimberly

[Nicki B]

So now because of all this there is one person in my company that knows of my Transgender status. So I have been outed at work to HR.

But, far more importantly, you have a ally who has already proved she will fight your corner?

[Jenna1561]

Kim,

I think that all-in-all you're enjoying a great outcome to your conversation. I totally agree with Nikki, you're not "outed" to one person, instead you now have a valuable ally and resource in your company. She now knows your position and is able to steer you through the company's policies and desires.

I am very happy for you!


Jenna

[2b.Lauren]

I like your letter and I think that a letter is the best way to clairfy your original response after returning from your vacation. I am not sure that you owe them an entire explanation of the spectrum of dressing and transitioning. Remember they are interested in only two concepts you and then them. Other than that the other points you make are really more like you are explaining away why you do what you do. You owe them no explanation of why, just that at this point in your life you are making changes and need the freedom and support from them to be able to identify with who you are right now. I get the impression that the entire meeting in the first place was to make sure that you are not experiencing any kind of harrassment from other employees and that you are comfortable at work. HR is there to make sure that employee's rights are always being considered and that none of the other employees are acting in ways that are against policies that the company has in place to prevent these problems. Maybe some edits would be helpful before you give it to the person you talked with. I also agree with other posters that you read you companies policy manuals and see what is in there to protect you. Just being aware will help you in case there is a problem. Good for you, and you do look happier when you are more expressive of your female side.