TG instead of TS

[livy_m_b]

We're not likely to have consensus on a neutral term anytime soon, however disappointing that may be. The influence of political correctness, television daytime programming, imperfect understanding even among those who use terms consistently, different agendas, etc. probably mean that no single term will ever be accepted by everyone. As the quote from Bierce below implies, we could consider the term "girl" or "boy" to refer to non-reproducing persons of the respective gender, regardless of chomosomal endowment. But I know that's not likely. It could lead to interesting sentences like "Oh, him? He's a girl, you know."

[Josie06]

Agreed Lisa, just to be accepted as who you are.

[Denise Anderson]

Either way, people associate TransSexual with someone who dresses to get off - I've always seen it that way and people I've always known have expressed it that way

Well if you and the people see it that way then good for you... but ya see thats cos we TSs are forever thrown in with TVs which are so desperate to drop the TV bit now and just be one big happy family of TG which im sorry we arent, and we never will be...

a CD/TV doesnt necessarily want sex but there is hardly any commonality between one and a TS... ooops im sorry we both cross dress... ooops no we dont, we dress in the gender we want to day after day, year after year... we dont have the luxury of shoving our alter ego in a cupboard and forgetting it for a few days... and we cant exactly deceive wifes/partners, family and friends with it either... there is a big difference... we arent a the big happy TG community and we dont have a fats hell chance of being one either...

Many guys/girls start out crossdressing as they have no idea of who they are, they struggle, everyone struggles in life but we get there in the end... but yeah i agree i hate the term transsexual cos of the sex in it... if we have to have labels id wather be a GDW... Gender Dysphoric woman... but then we come to next step in the evolution, when you're post op are you lumped for the rest of your life to be trans... or have you transitioned... and has the gender dysphoria gone.... all sorts of fun and games in the place we call planet earth... the world...

Ultimately at the end of the day id like the same as my good friend Ms Golightly, id prefer people called me denise and forget anything else

Denise
xxx

[Calliope]

Denise, I agree with everything you wrote (except maybe the dysphoria word - it sounds so 'hung-up') and I rather like the fresh tone of your voice, too.

Really nice avatar, I will add.

[Lauren B]

Well if you and the people see it that way then good for you... but ya see thats cos we TSs are forever thrown in with TVs which are so desperate to drop the TV bit now and just be one big happy family of TG which im sorry we arent, and we never will be...

a CD/TV doesnt necessarily want sex but there is hardly any commonality between one and a TS... ooops im sorry we both cross dress... ooops no we dont, we dress in the gender we want to day after day, year after year... we dont have the luxury of shoving our alter ego in a cupboard and forgetting it for a few days... and we cant exactly deceive wifes/partners, family and friends with it either... there is a big difference... we arent a the big happy TG community and we dont have a fats hell chance of being one either...

Many guys/girls start out crossdressing as they have no idea of who they are, they struggle, everyone struggles in life but we get there in the end... but yeah i agree i hate the term transsexual cos of the sex in it... if we have to have labels id wather be a GDW... Gender Dysphoric woman... but then we come to next step in the evolution, when you're post op are you lumped for the rest of your life to be trans... or have you transitioned... and has the gender dysphoria gone.... all sorts of fun and games in the place we call planet earth... the world...

Ultimately at the end of the day id like the same as my good friend Ms Golightly, id prefer people called me denise and forget anything else

Denise
xxx

I like what you said, except for "dysphoria". I don't believe that it's us who are dysphoric, but it's the society we live in that can't tolerate anything or anyone that's not black and white, and packaged in a nice box with a clearly-marked bow that's dysphoric.

As long as there are labels, I don't think there will be any label that we can all agree on. That's because those labels all imply that something is wrong with us, or that we're deviant, and it just isn't true.

[janedoe311]

What I have seen is that the Sex in TS is being replaced with Gender at least in the US, just like it is in general use, ie forms, applications, drivers license and ID etc.

You can look these up in the Web and find different definitions of all. Transvestite, Cross-dresser, Transsexual, Transgendered, Gender Disphoria, gender confusion and Gender identity disorder. Now is that confusing?

If you find so called "medical" definition they differ as well.

Transsexualism is a condition in which a transsexual person self-identifies as a member of the gender opposite to the one assigned to them at birth.

Transgender is the state of one's "gender identity" (self-identification as male, female, both or neither) not matching one's "assigned gender" (identification by others as male or female based on physical/genetic sex).
(Love the word assigned must have been on the work order!)

They seem to be the same, do they not?

Transvestite is another term that none of us like. It was originally for men who dress in woman’s clothes. It has changed to men who dress in woman’s clothes for a sexual fetish. Cross-dresser was added to replace it in the 70’s because of sexual fetish part. Also cross-dresser covers both genders, transvestite is just for men.

So a transvestite is a cross-dresser but not the other way around!

Gender dystopia and gender confusion are another couple of terms that leave much to be desired. Both gender confusion and gender dysphoria are being forwarded to the definition of Gender Identity Disorder in the Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.
They seem to be in the process of being replaced by Gender Identity Disorder.

Gender identity disorder, as identified by psychologists and medical doctors, is a condition in which a person has been assigned one gender (usually at birth on the basis of their sex, but compare intersexuality), but identifies as belonging to another gender, or does not conform with the gender role their respective society prescribes to them.

Confusion: A lack of clarity or order, jumbled. Or the state of being confused; not understanding.

Dysphoria: is the opposite of euphoria. It is generally characterized as a feeling of emotional and/or mental discomfort, restlessness, malaise, and depression. A person suffering from dysphoria will feel that "Things aren't the way they are supposed to be."

Neither confusion or disphoria seem to do it do they? But people with Gender Identity Disorder one can be confused and do not know what to do. So I would see confusion and dysphoria a symptom of Gender Identity Disorder in some cases.

And none of these definitions even mention sexual orientation. That is a different problem not related to these or so they seem to be suggesting.

(However in my case it is confusion. I have always liked women and find men and their bodies repulsive. But I want breasts and an innie" down there. I like a relationship with a woman, but really want to be a woman.) So that is confusion, within the gender identity disorder. This is probably why CD’ing does not work for me, it is more than the just dressing I need, then but maybe not!)

So what does this all mean: Well, who cares what the medical and general public defines these terms they are just labels and really do not mean anything.

No one person fits in any one perfectly anyway.

[Calliope]

Well, who cares what the medical and general public defines these terms they are just labels and really do not mean anything.

Except getting HRT and SRS, of course. Meds and certain services exist outside the free market and doctors seem to be the last of the precapitalist guilds. I'd like to have more confidence in therapists and shrinks but I worked in the mental health field for 10 years, and have known the work of many bozos winging it.

Your research into definitions was righteous. Thanks.

[AmberTG]

The definition I was given by my therapist for "dysphoria" is pretty close to what Janedoe311 wrote in her post, but the therapist described it as an effect of GID as apposed to being a seperate condition. It describes the confusion and depression, anxiety and self loathing that people with gender identity disorder feel and have to deal with every day until coming to terms with being TG, for lack of a better word. The word "trans" seems to have a negative meaning attached to it now, but it is a good discriptive word for the thoughts and feelings that go with it. The problem with dysphoria is that it took a long time to build up to the point where it starts really affecting us, it's going to take time to get rid of it. We have to unlearn all the bad garbage that led to the condition, mostly, we are our own worst enemy.

[Teresa Amina]

we could consider the term "girl" or "boy" to refer to non-reproducing persons of the respective gender

And create another discriminatory distinction? This actually was used in old Ireland, I've read, unmarried men referred to as boys regardless of age and unmarried women always as girls. The implication seems to always be that they were not quite as good as "breeders".
The use of sex as a verb in our sex-crazed societies is the core of this problem between TG and TS, an ongoing perversion of the language. With the elimination of TS as a distinction where do those of us finding ourselves something more than CDers but not quite TS fit? An assigned label may be a tyranny but a chosen "tag" is a helpful handhold along the way of self-discovery.

[Calliope]

An assigned label may be a tyranny but a chosen "tag" is a helpful handhold along the way of self-discovery.

Dig it.

[Scotty]

Well if you and the people see it that way then good for you... but ya see thats cos we TSs are forever thrown in with TVs which are so desperate to drop the TV bit now and just be one big happy family of TG which im sorry we arent, and we never will be...


Ultimately at the end of the day id like the same as my good friend Ms Golightly, id prefer people called me denise and forget anything else

Denise
xxx

Dont' get me wrong, I didn't say I liked it at all, it's just the way human nature is. Growing up that is how it was, and now in the past 10 years that has changed a LOT - I was merely using it as an old-school example...

[Kimberley]

All these labels. I thought we were past that; way past it but apparently we aren't. Are we a big happy family? Nope because as we have seen here, "I'm TS and you aren't Nahh nah nah nah" Give it up for crying out loud.

Like it or not this is exactly the sort of thinking that leads to discrimination and damn it, we have enough of that externally for it to be in here!!! We have a lot more common goals than arguing over gender and sexuality.

We should be looking at things like why the term Gender Identity Disorder even exists because it minimalizes us by creating an illness where there isnt one. It is a convenience used by the medical community to justify their own lack of understanding.

We could better spend our time helping one another rather than pushing labels. There are way too many people here just trying to make sense of their so called TV or CD tendancies. They are far more important than these labels.

I dont give a hoot if people think I am a fetishist, or a TS. Who the hell cares? What matters is how I FEEL and how I deal with it. What matters is how others help me through the rough spots instead of arguing semantics.

END OF RANT!!!
:mad:

[MarinaTwelve200]

You folks wouldn't make good scientists, but hey I'm cool with that:D

Well, you gotta use some kind of "labeling" or differentiation system in order to analyze or even hold an intellegent conversation concerning one's respective "Condition".----we cant even think about something unless we have a name for it. CONCEPTS those units that the brain uses to think with are made of WORDS.

Now I can understand NOT wanting Names and lables to affect social situations, but to do any thinking and exchange of ideas one needs to have a NAME for a specific condition one is dealing with. You cant think with a sentance unit like "A man who feels hes really a woman"---you need to name the concept===TRANSEXUAL for example , then your brain can work with it.

There are definate differences between Transsexual, Homosexual, Autogynophile, Cross Dressers, etc. If we did not define and differentiate between them, any thinking or discussion would degrade into meaningless MUSH We would be no more "enlightened" than the "gay bashers" who shout insults at all and any "different" people who walk by them on the street corners.

I Think Y'all are saying it should'nt matter socially----I agree, but the terms are STILL needed when such issues are to be discussed out of a social context.

[Kimberley]

Marina, in the context of establishing a point of analysis, you are absolutely correct. The problem here is that people take this literally into the realm of socialization and separation which in my mind is intrinsically wrong.

This is exactly the sort of behaviour that leads to negative relationships (and both you and I have seen them here before). If we as a community are to progress we need to drop this sort of segregationist thinking.

Let me put it this way. I have neighbours. One is a policeman, another a doctor, another a lawyer another a carpenter, another is a rock musician and so on. How does the definition of being employed in specific fields affect our social relationships or our goals of bettering our neighbourhood? When one neighbour puts themself above the others then the social fabric begins to disintegrate and the common goals begin to get lost. This is the danger I see happening here.

As I said, it doesnt matter how I identify on the gender scale any more than how you identify. My respect for you is in your thoughts and willingness to help work toward a common goal. That is the essence of what we are about, not what label gets assigned or its so called ranking. None of us can afford to let that sort of twisted thinking go unchallenged. It is the demise of our social fabric when we do.

That is the point I was making and still am. It isnt about the labels. It is about us, all of us.


Kimberley.

[Scotty]

That is the point I was making and still am. It isnt about the labels. It is about us, all of us.


Kimberley.

No worries, I don't see "US" as being so set on those labels, I do agree that we are referring here as to how "Society" views it, not how WE view it.

Society needs to change.

[Felix]

Hi guys and gals. Well like I said I looked up a few things on wikipedia a great read the definitions are good I feel so why not have a look. Transsexual and transgendered seemed to me to be very closely related not much difference. But then it's down to interpretation at the end of the day. Felix xx

[Calliope]

Yu say: "I sure hope the term TS is replaced soon. It's a double-wham, really - trans isn't so bad,,, Speaking for myself, I sleep in bed!"
I dunnow how yu seperated the SEX and the gender issues like yu did, but yu def came back to BED with it.

I guess my point, however infelicitously phrased, was TS gets (mainstream) people thinking about sexual activities which I believe reduces and sensationalizes the TG experience. My note 'I sleep in bed' was simply my way of saying 'Boring things happen in bed, too' or it's no one business. How I conduct myself out about town is all society needs to concern itself with. (Wow, terrible grammar, sorry there.)

[Sally24]

Got to agree with Marina, "we cant even think about something unless we have a name for it.

Language and terms were invented so we didn't have to think in pictures, but concepts. If you think about it, you use assumptions and stereotypes all the time. If you didn't, you'd have to stop and analyze everything you see like it was the first time. People get all excited about that, but it's your brains shorthand trying to make it easier to manage all the info.

As far as terms and getting along. One doesn't really have anything to do with the other. Especially online, all we know about a person is how they type. All you have to go on is the written word. Do you want to have to get a bio and personallity survey from every person you start to post with?

As far as names go, I try to use ones that are not loaded with excess meanings. Transvestite tends to be one of those that leans toward the sexual fetish end of things. Crossdresser works for just about all of us. Transgendered I take as an all encompassing term for people not one with the whole binary male or female type system. That would include intersex, transex, and crossdressers as well as people exploring the whole gender expression area. Transexual typically means the "man trapped in a woman's body" type thing (or the reverse FtoM also). It usually is used for those that are using a least a few of the permanent body alterations to adjust there presentation; electrolysis, hormones, breast reduction or augmentation and full blown SRS.

Yes, people can use names and terms in negative ways. You don't need laguage or words to hate or hurt, they're just your tools. I don't think the problem is with the tools, but with the users.

Sally

[Joni Beauman]

I guess this is a call for a coefficient of transness - some kind of continuous variable that integrates all the factors outlined (gender, sex, biotic, abiotic influences). It could be relativized on a scale of 0 to 100. But what would we do with the information? Feel better or worse, depending on our score? I am about to go to a counselor for the first time in a couple days - chasing down that sensation of dysphoria that grows and subsides in intensity over time. Thought it might be interesting to see if there is some reservoir of understanding to be discovered somehow. Joni

[CaptLex]

Yes, people can use names and terms in negative ways. You don't need laguage or words to hate or hurt, they're just your tools. I don't think the problem is with the tools, but with the users.

Amen to that!

[janedoe311]

When the “mental” “condition” of “gender confusion” was “accepted” by the so call medical profession as more than just a sexual fetish, transsexual was born, it might have been used before that but it was the so called professionals and the media that made it main stream. Again this is the US, what is going on with these terms officially, outside of the use I do not know.

Why sex instead of gender? Because Sex was used as both the gender and as a verb. As I said you fill out a form and it asked for you sex not gender. (The stand up comic joke was you put a YES next to sex).

Since Sex is being dropped as gender the sex in transsexual is beginning to be changed to gender. I still see TS and TG as being the same. In some circles the two terms are seen as different and TS may take on a different definition from its old meaning once the “transition” from TS to TG is “over”. (That does seem to be happening.)

It is not likely that the medical establishment, media, general public and those “afflicted” by gender identify disorder will ever agree on the definition of these terms, so why the argument over it?

And in the end it does not matter, it is a label that does not make you feel any different about yourself and is not necessary for you to understand yourself. (I do not fit in any defined label and am a mixture of many.)

Labels are just something this society needs, good or bad.