You be the judge..http://jenellerose.com/htmlpostings/...ingtheUrge.htm
You be the judge..http://jenellerose.com/htmlpostings/...ingtheUrge.htm
[SIZE="4"]The question of nature vs. nurture is probably the second most discussed question in the CD community. (I think the first is "When/How should I tell my spouse/SO/girlfriend about my crossdressing?" The third most discussed question probably "Is crossdressing a sin?")
Science has not found any genetic markers for crossdressing. There is no evidence to suggest that it is hereditary. There may be instances of father/son, uncle/nephew, brother/brother, cousin/cousin crossdressing, but these are so few and far between that it eliminates it being hereditary.
Some have suggested some sort of hormone imbalance ("natal wash") while in the womb. There is no way to scientifically explore this. How many CDers today know what hormones were flowing through their mother during pregnancy? None...
How about some sort of mutation that happened? Mutation would result in some sort of intersex condition. Certainly not all crossdressers are intersexed and not all intersex people are crossdressers.
How about "nurture", environment, or the way we were raised? Certainly being exposed to crossdressing at an early age can account for some of our population. However, not all of us were exposed to it in a positive manner. Some of us grew up in environments that were neutral or negative to crossdressing.
So the answer to nature vs. nurture has to be "none of the above"... This really doesn't answer the question... If it is "none of the above", then what is it? (And no matter what the answer is we ARE responsible for our actions!)
One of the things we all have in common is our inability to stop the act of crossdressing for a long period of time without suffering mental anguish. SOMETHING happened to us, SOMETHING changed us making us different than other men, making us feel excitement by crossdressing where other men would be neutral or maybe even disgusted or repulsed if they had to crossdress... There is a huge gap between us and other men and no one knows what caused that gap nor how to bridge it.
Other threads have pondered if there are any "ex-crossdressers" around... The general consensus is "no"... It seems that there is no bridge for us to travel across that gap to join the other men... Nor is there a bridge from the other side to us... How many men after they enter adulthood who crossdress for some reason such as Halloween and have had no exposure to crossdressing in their formative years become CDers?
There is an answer out there to the nature vs. nurture question. Until science is ready to commit time and resources to studying this, I don't think this question will ever be solved.
In my opinion, I was born a male and I am a man no matter what I am wearing, how I look, or what I am thinking... And I will always be a man no matter what I do to my body and no matter what chemicals I ingest. Whether I like it or not is immaterial...
Peace,
Robyn[/SIZE]
Yep, I reckon you are right on, Robyn, I agree 110%.
Yep, who curiously picked up that pair of panties, stockings or bra for the very first time with the urge to 'try this'. I know I did, myself, with no outside influence or control over the matter.So the answer to nature vs. nurture has to be "none of the above"... This really doesn't answer the question... If it is "none of the above", then what is it? (And no matter what the answer is we ARE responsible for our actions!)
Janie
With me personally, I think it's both. I was born with the urge and desire to dress as a woman, so I have chosen to act on those urges. Granted, I doubt I could stop if I chose to do so (not that I would want to) but I'm sticking that for me, it's a little of both :D
I think it is some of both ... we do make estrogens, 'tho not much of them, perhaps we are wired a bit differently, we probably have early experiences that influence us ... whatever, I'm happy that whatever made me the way I am did so!Originally Posted by Janie Gunn
Claire
I believe I was born more female than male. A lot more. When I was growing up, I didn't have to worry about labels. I could just be me.
Lanore
[SIZE="3"]Lanore[/SIZE]
I doubt I was born a cross dresser. However a recent test taken through a post on this forum tends to show me 87% feminine and 13% male. I do cook, sew, and many household chores which tend to push me to believe that somewhere along my early stages of life I tended to drift more to my feminine side. I do not dress 24/7 and probably never will. I just enjoy the time that I can dress and feel comfortable while doing it.
Dawn,
Interesting in reading how you see household chores as femme thing to do. Not pokeing at you but it is how soceity sees it for the most part. What I will find interesting is if you will have the same reaction as I recieved in some sort of a lynch mob. Maybe not because how you presented it was in a different approach than I. Mine was used as an example to prove a needless point.
Oy. The "nature vs. nurture" debate again...
My standard answer: It's irrelevant at best. Crossdressing is fun, so enjoy it while you can. The bigots don't have a leg to stand on either way.
My personal answer: A mix of both, really. I say it's about 70-30 in favor of lifestyle.
I like crossdressing because I like the sense of peace I get from tapping into my femininity. I like the intense pleasure I get from the connecting deeply with women through it. I've been this way for as long as I can remember.
But that's not the whole story. There's also a more...political part to it that I just can't ignore. I've never thought too highly of popular "masculinity", so I've never really had any shame over it--quite the opposite. From the minute I heard of it, I saw it as an excellent way of "breaking out" of that box society tries to lock all males in.
Last edited by Raya; 11-18-2008 at 04:18 PM.
RayaThats a damn good point. I dont like to conform to what society perceives as right, either.But that's not the whole story. There's also a more...political part to it that I just can't ignore. I've never thought too highly of popular "masculinity", so I've never really had any shame over it--quite the opposite. From the minute I heard of it, I saw it as an excellent way of "breaking out" of that box society tries to lock all males in.
Good question.. and extremely deep by the way.. I'm not sure, but for me to explain why I like to dress in female clothing is beyond my ability.. I have many times on my own site (myspace) and here tried to explain why I like to dress the way I do.. I've called myself a pervert, psyco, semi-sick in the head.. to normal.. who hasn't dressed a different way.. either as a cowboy (costumes for halloween) or just for fun.. the fact that I'd rather dress as my sister (I don't have a sister) is irrelevant.. or maybe it's relevant.. I don't know.. I had this "Cross dressers manifesto" that I had written both by myself and from sites all over the internet(s) but it was over fifty pages (100 front to back) with entries from here and all sorts of places to explain in great detail why I dress and that there are others who dress (so I didn't come off being a singled out sick individual).. I went back and read it.. or I should say I started to read it and it got tedious right quick.. then a few weeks ago started to read it again and had to stop after three pages and realized that if I couldn't read it, then how could I expect anyone else to make an attempt.. I was so sure it would explain it all.. it was a yawner.. so I edited it down to about five pages and am still not convinced it is the document I want to tell the world (my family) why I crossdress.. so there it is then.. ten minutes of writing a response that tells you nothing... feel cheated??.. now you know how I feel...
This is what I mean by "every guy can look like a girl from the right angles".. this is one of the first pictures of me dressed up.. very vague look.. almost fem...
This is a question I have tried to answer all my life. I can, with a reasonable amount of certainty, say that it is unlikely I will ever know the answer. Crossdressing doesn't seem to rank very high on the list of tasks for medical researchers.....
However.......
Of the two choices I feel that, for me at least, there must be some kind of genetic reason for being a crossdresser. I started dressing at around the age of 8. But I do have recollections of crawling around on the floor while wearing my mothers shoes and enjoying the feel of her clothes as far back as 3 or 4 years old. I tried putting on one of her dresses once somewhere between the age of 4 and 8 and was severly reprimanded and punished and told sternly that boys don't do that. Little boys don't where girls clothes! I just couldn't understand why I couldn't wear a pretty dress. The ground rules were set rather early in my childhood. I tried again some time after that and was severly beaten by my father. Boys were boys and girls were girls and that was it! I was confused. I thought, "Why can't I wear pretty clothes?"
At around 7 years old I began to feel that I just had to be able to wear girls clothes. Fearing punishment and another beating I secretly began putting on my mothers panties and stockings when the opportunity arose. The very first time I did that it felt natural and I remember again wondering why I couldn't wear pretty clothes. At that age there was no sexual drive or turn on to wearing the clothes, I just felt like it was right to wear them but I was told that it was wrong! Confusion reigned!
With the lessons of childhood I truly don't believe it was ever a choice to crossdress.
in this regard, i think it is a little bit of both for me. i have done for a long time but at the same time when i wasnt able to do it freely it was like a knife in the heart.....
I wish people would learn more about biology before thinking about the origins of CDs.
First of all our genes contain instructions on how to build a biological body - they are like construction blueprints. They do not indicate what color a tenant on the 23 floor will paint his room 10 years in the future. Crossdressing has got zip all to do with genetics.
We are born with some hard wired knowledge necessary or valuable for our survival. Babies know to suck when something is placed in their mouths, they know to hold their breath when under water. We also have behaviors like the fight or flight response when adrenaline is immediately released into our bloodstreams when danger is detected. There is nothing about crossdressing that is about survival or provides an advantage in the natural surroundings that we are designed for.
The hormone wash theory is stupid from the start. Our brains grow continuously not just for the 9 months in the womb but also for the first year outside the womb. The only way to get a female brain is to be constantly bathed in female hormones for the 21 months it takes for a complete brain to develop. And even then this is immaterial as our brains are constantly renewing themselves as cells die and are replaced throughout our lives and this process is subjected to the hormones in our bodies i.e. testosterone.
This only leaves one option. We are crossdressers because of our individuality. Our brains are a myriad of billions upon billions of cells each linked together in a complex manner. These interconnections are constantly being renewed so our personalities and behaviors can alter over time. Everyone has a unique pattern of connections which gives us our unique personalities. You can give people the same input information but we all spit out different answers.
There is no such thing as being born a crossdresser. We were born with a unique personality within the norms of human beings or else we would not have developed into a normal adult. Everything else from that basic personality platform is learned behavior. It is how each of our individual brains organizes and interprets the world around us that determines what sort of person we will grow to be.
I am amazed to see people write off their early baby years as if the behaviors that will lead us to crossdressing could not possibility have developed then. During the first five years children absorb truly massive amounts of information. A five year old can do many things which even the most powerful computers in the world are unable to match such as learning language. We learn a great deal about gender roles through observing the world around us. After 5 years we had 1825 days to observe how males and females look and behave.
Since gender roles are artificially created by society, everything we know and understand about gender was learned. There is nothing intrinsic about our gender behavior, we were born without any knowledge of gender roles, essentially everyone is brain gender neutral when born.
We all learn to think about gender in our own unique ways. Some of us as children thought of it as something pliable and open to change to suit our personal likes and dislikes. Others conformed to the idea that gender should be fixed and cannot be altered. These thoughts drift through our minds on a subconscious level so we don't remember making deliberate conscious decisions on gender.
No-one decides to be a CD, rather we explore something, in this case female clothing, find we like it for whatever reason and if we believe gender can be something that can be molded to better fit our own personality then we bend society's rules and secretly become CDs through repeated thoughts and actions which strengthens the pathways in our brains until the behavior becomes natural and instinctive.
Remember all behaviors are common to all humans irregardless of gender. To believe that you need to have a female brain or be genetically different to enjoy normal human behavior is silly. It is only society's rules that makes us believe we are different from others. We are not. Period.
I think it's genetic it also a choice , we dress cuz we want, need, have, love, to. I love everything about it. HUGGS :canada:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC].....................100% Authentic Canadian Cross-dressing Truckdriver!!!!!!!!!
:D(((((((((((((((((((("I LOVE BEING A CROSSDRESSER"))))))))))))))))))):D
Link to My 20th high school reunion http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...d.php?t=112976
If you don't like my (honesty) well TFB.:canada:
Men are just a single celled orgasm , In a petri dish held by a woman. (Gene Simmons)
Satrana, that has got to be the best I have read on the topic.I have always found it funny when someone claims that they were 'born' a crossdresser, as I thought it would be impossible, and it nothing more than learned behaviour.There is no such thing as being born a crossdresser. We were born with a unique personality within the norms of human beings or else we would not have developed into a normal adult. Everything else from that basic personality platform is learned behavior. It is how each of our individual brains organizes and interprets the world around us that determines what sort of person we will grow to be.
Janie
I am not a Bio Scientist but has anyone ever heared of GENETIC TIME BOMBS? Maybe crossdressing could be tied to one who knows but the truth of the matter is no one knows for sure why it happens. For some it could be a behaviour choice or sexual fetish I know at the age of 3 it would hardley be a sexual fetish ,I don't think it was a behaviour choice either not remembering any other reason for the urge to do it accept doing it and paying dearly for doing so. I have a human brain so I don't blame that either . Not much of a life style at age 3 either.. Wait maybe it was a genetic time bomb.
hi...a choice .... or .... something else . i am left handed . i write with my right hand be cause i was told to at school ....conforming .... i was a picher for our baseball team . i was to fast i was told when training go back 30 ft . still to fast . okay use your right hand . i did like a girl. that was fine till i throw a lift.y ...he he... they did not like .it....i am wired both male & female . i was told you are a boy. be a boy. yet i was a girl in side . a choice ... not mine . theirs .... 50 years of their choices ..11 years ago . no more the choice was made . not mine. to live as me a women . my comment is if you wont a word . programed .... brain wired ...that... is not a choice . nor did it have any thing to do with how we were brought up . so its no wonder we are like we are . even after all of this i am happy being just me a women . i think the mix is right for me. now ...i cant change it nor do i wont. to because i am free....... to be me ...... ...noeleena...
What about the evidence for a myriad of gene-behaviour connections then?
But the brain, like the rest of the body goes through stages of growth and development, it's not a steady-state but one of bursts. And there is only so much regrowth. Only some who suffer substantial brain damage are lucky enough to have their brains rewire around the damagedd sections so that other brain parts can take over the role of the dmaged areas.The hormone wash theory is stupid from the start. Our brains grow continuously not just for the 9 months in the womb but also for the first year outside the womb. The only way to get a female brain is to be constantly bathed in female hormones for the 21 months it takes for a complete brain to develop. And even then this is immaterial as our brains are constantly renewing themselves as cells die and are replaced throughout our lives and this process is subjected to the hormones in our bodies i.e. testosterone.
The 'plastic brain' only strecthes and chages so far!
What about the data and studies documented on Zoe Brain's blog?
I've said it many times, Emmi, but couldn't have said it better than you. We were born this way, so we might as well accept it and enjoy it. Which is what I do. I wouldn't change things for the world.
What was I thinking , making this "life style" choice at 9 years old
Kelsy
Born female intended
" Don't die with your music still in you!"
There is a big difference between simple behaviours and complex patterns of behaviour. My father and I have much the same temperament and many behaviours in common, and since he did not raise me they are almost certainly hereditary. Our habits, interests, and work are very different, despite that.
While it surely is true that we inherit some things which may make us more likely to dress (a possible example: being overly sensitive to touch and therefore preferring softer clothes), it is just way too simple to say "crossdressing is genetic." That's like saying that being a carpenter is genetic.
Ah. Thanks for enlightening us... Behaviour has nothing to do with genetics. I obviously just learned to be left-handed, then?
Surely people are saying the causes for cross-dressing (e.g gender dysphoria) may be genetic.
Genes can't make you a carpenter - but they can provide you with the talents to be a good carpenter, or artist, or fast-jet pilot, or mathematician?
They may be the reason why you feel more comfortable wearing clothes of the sex opposite to that you were born with.. But I agree, particularly given the range in which we present, it's highly unlikely that there's just one cause.
Last edited by Nicki B; 11-21-2008 at 01:02 PM.
Nicki
[SIZE="1"]Moi?[/SIZE]
I feel I was born this way. What I want to know is what happened to have me know it was something I had to hide even as a small child. I know my mother and sister both knew I CDed but nothing was ever said. My father hated me. I retired as a senior research scientist(in physical chemistry) and my father always called me old stupid( it did take me 13 years to get my first degree)... did I offend him?????
Rather I'd suggest it's like saying being artistic or creative is genetic. Which we know it often is as schizophrenia is often but not always hereditary and non-schizophrenic family members of schizophrenic people where there is a family history of schizophrenia are vastly more creative than the general distribution of creativity in the population which is why the current theory is that schizophrenia is an uncommon side-effect of having the advantageous gene for higher proportions of creativity.
Crossdressing is the simple behaviour, what style you wear is the complex so long as it's associated with the other sex.
There is evidence for genetic/neurological aspects of both gender identity and expression. With neuron counts and size and activity in different brain areas related to being closer to the identified or expressed sex. The question is how are they related. Autopsy studies, FMRI scans, this is evidence that cannot be dissmissed without cause.
Is crossdressing a mild case of neurological transgender while transexual more severe? Like mild, moderate and severe Autism? Or is it a variaton? Like Aspergers? Or is there both, both of which currently get called crossdressing?
Only more testing on crossdressers compared to transexuals will give us the answer.
People like to shy away from some things but here's some facts for you to learn to cope with.
FMRI brain scans have shown that in some parts of the brain many gay men are like average women and many lesbian women are like average men in their brain activity.
That means homosexuality is a form of transgender!
While the areas of this activity are different in Transexuals nonetheless they too are more like the self-identified sexes average brain activity.
So being Gay IS a variation on being transgender. Tough for all those TG folk who keep saying 'im not gay' cause yes you are, or rather, gays are transgender like you, just in a slightly different way.
As for brain development I was just listening this morning to a neurologist explaining that brain wiring occurs in stages and that lack of sufficient stimuli like the physical contact between mother and baby, during these stages has permanant results on brain wiring. http://www.abc.net.au/rn/scienceshow/default.htm (relevant portion should be up in transcript or for download in a day or so)
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