Why are only CDs blamed for not disclosing before marriage?

[PaulaQ]

@presh GG - why'd you live your entire life lonely and alone - presumably your CD spouse isn't responsible for any childhood issues you had?

Some of us are really nice - but our wives no longer want us after they find out. That was certainly my experience. Four months after coming out - she wanted me gone. So I left, although pending divorce I still support her financially.

Her discomfort trumped my misery - at least that's how she feels about it. She wants me to suffer.

[Marcelle]

Wow . . . I agree with "Sometimes Stephanie" on this one. People really should chill. Yes the comparative between MS and CDing was probably not the way to go but then again people are assuming that the OP was doing this out of malice or spite . . . please read the OP has been with her SO for 32 years dealing with this tragic illness. If she was truly heinous as some have painted her, she would have left long ago. As well at no instance did she blame the wife. The OP was merely trying to point out that when it comes to CDing the CDer takes the brunt of "shame, shame" from many. However there are lots of things not disclosed prior to marriage which come up later in life which couples have to deal with. Some couples will work through it and some won't that is life folks and it is not all sunshine and lollipops.

When my wife married me, I did not disclose the true nature of my employment and when I started disappearing for weeks at a time she had no idea where I was or even if I would come back. There is lots I have not disclosed about some of the things I have done not because I don't think my wife would understand but because parts of my humanity have been robbed from me and I need to deal with that before I can share with her (and no I am not a serial killer before anyone decides to post that idea . . . I am in the military ).

So please cut the OP some slack here as she was going for an alternative position albeit the messaging did not hit the mark. Sometimes we all post things which sound rational and then realize afterwards perhaps that was not the best approach . . . don't let your emotions cloud your good judgement.

Hugs

Isha

[Nicole Erin]

Some of us are really nice - but our wives no longer want us after they find out. That was certainly my experience. Four months after coming out - she wanted me gone. So I left, although pending divorce I still support her financially.
Her discomfort trumped my misery - at least that's how she feels about it. She wants me to suffer.

Too often when a GG wants out pf the marriage, it is because they think they can do better somehow. Not that it will actually happen but they think so.
The CD'ing thing is just an excuse for some wives to leave. If not for that, they would find some other reason.

As far as her wanting you to suffer - as time goes on, things get better. When I first divorced it pretty much sucked but then I realized - no one there to complain about stupid stuff.

[Deedee Skyblue]

There apparently was a post removed from this thread, but I just wanted to respond to the content of that post...

Because this is a support forum for crossdressers, and crossdressers who have had miserable experiences (of any kind) are often looking for support, many come here and tell their stories. So we read a lot of stories about crossdressers who have had their relationships destroyed when they belateded revealed this secret to an SO. But we DON'T see posts from women whose relationships were destroyed when they (the women) belateded revealed some secret to an SO. So there may be some people who get the feeling that women feel that they can keep any secrets they want in a relationship, and if by happenstance, a secret is revealed, then the woman feels that the guy is supposed to handle it gracefully and fully accept it and it should make no difference in the relationship, but the woman feels that any secret kept by the guy is betrayal.

But we only get a small part of any story in this forum. I think it's important not to generalize too much from what gets posted here. I especially think that it is important not to assume that what is said by any one person should be applied to everyone, or to assume that what someone puts in a post should be taken personally.

There are people of all genders who feel that it is OK for them to keep secrets in a relationship but a total betrayal of trust for the other partner to keep secrets. There are people of all genders who can gracefully handle the life-changing revelation of a secret by the other partner - and people of all genders who cannot. There are people here who may be in the middle of an awful situation and may say something that they wouldn't say at some other time. There are people here who may not be expert at putting their thoughts into a post, and so they write things that don't come out right. And there may be people here who misinterpret what someone else posts. Those last two - not saying what you think you are saying, and misunderstanding what someone else is saying - are very common in a medium where you can't hear the vocal inflections or see the face and body language of those you are communicating with.

My guess is that in most cases, most posters here don't intend to be offensive, and when they are accidentally offensive, probably are sorry it happened.

Deedee

[Simone_40]

Steffi, the fact that your wife had been diagnosed with such a devastating Disease as MS & (FORGOT?) to disclose this to you prior to Marriage is a MAJOR injustice to you and the 'Future' you had envisioned for your Life Together as 'ONE'.
I agree wholeheartedly that this often DEBILITATING Disease would have made ME think twice BEFORE I SAID, "I DO".

Sharing a life with a Spouse with MS is more STRESSFUL & devastating than sharing a life with a Faithful CD'er who is TRULY 'in Love' with his wife, even if she was NOT AWARE of his innocent Alternative Lifestyle (prior to 'I DO'), and not harming their Marriage in any manor.
Kisses, ,
Simone

[barbara gordon]

comment #16 from Paula Q is well put .

I agree that its a good idea to disclose cross dressing early on , but what if you didn't know how to?

Thank you to those of you for defending the guys who could not tell their wives until later , the ones who kept a secret until maybe when it was too late .
circumstance forces action and it also forces inaction .
I like the point about "winning the lottery". In our culture I think that cross dressing is too often seen as such an awful taboo….. its easier for many folks to accept some one who is a heroin addict .

Any man who falls in love with a woman will want to keep her . Its important to be loved back too. It takes a long time for someone to know himself . What if you couldn't tell your wife in the beginning because you didn't understand what was in your own self?
And then , as your self identity evolved and as you understood it more you knew that it would hurt your marriage ? what to do then ?
Its not an easy choice to sacrifice one for the other.

The urge to cross dress is so strong despite the dangers .
It can cause huge problems in a relationship with a woman who wants a full masculine presenting male . does this mean that a cross dresser can't have a loving relationship or marriage with a woman ?
I hope not .
ugh .

[Megan70]

I think that your 'expose ' of your beloved wife is cruel and unfair and terribly disloyal. telling stories out of school? Why not shout her personal life from the roof tops and take out and ad on the front page?. How crass You are comparing apples to oranges and are trying in a most deliberate but unconvincing way to justify your cross dressing and get the validation from us by unfairly comparing it to your wife's early life's' traumas which 'sir' is none of our business. You should be ashamed of what you wrote and if she read this I don't blame her for drastic consequences. Oh.. and I hope YOU never get MS or cancer, or Alzheimer or such.

[Sometimes Steffi]

Thanks to all who responded.

I was off having some girly time today, so this is my first opportunity to see all these posts and to respond to them.

So just to clarify, my wife wasn't diagnosed with MS until after we were married for 2 years. She was just as blindsided by the diagnosis as I was. So I didn't intend to implicate my wife in hiding the MS from me. Sometimes "stuff" happens and you just have to deal with it. My belief is that a diagnosis of MS falls under the category of "in sickness and in health". No harm, no foul. The only reason that I brought up MS was to demonstrate that there are things in marriage that may be more devastating than CDing. In retrospect, I should have left it out because it detracts significantly from my other points. These other points are:

1. My wife didn't enjoy sex.
2. She would probably never enjoy sex because of some frightening sexually-based events from her childhood.
3. She did not disclose this information to me before marriage.

So, my question to myself is, "Would I have broken off the relationship if I had known?" [Where have we heard that question before?] I think the answer is probably "No, I wouldn't have broken off the relationship." I wouls have believed that she would have changed for the better, "once I made an honest woman out of her." However, If I had known how she felt and was able to see how it would have changed our relationship, I might have broken off the relationship. [Where have we heard that before?]

So, I get back to my original point, aren't there things that a woman should disclose prior to marriage, or is it just the guy that's obligated to disclose, and is CDing the only thing that needs to be disclosed.

So, someone mentioned endebtedness. I made my wife disclose her endebtedness (mostly charge cards) prior to marriage, and we came to an agreement about how to handle her debts ( which meant that she had to pay them down before marriage.

What if a man expected to marry a virgin, and was deceived. There are still places today where that can get you killed. (For the record, I disagree with that, so don't be a hater. I'm just stating a fact.

Like Isha, for quite a long time, my crossdressing, (if you can really call it that, since it typically consisted of wearing a pair of panties) was just another method of self arousal, that didn't detract from what would consider "nornal" arousal. Without access t the Internet (in 1978) and with no one to talk to, I honestly thought it was something I would grow out of after marriage. But, it was the last stumbling block prior to popping the question.

I hope I've clarified the points I was trying to make, and I'd still like to hear your comments.

But please, let's just forget about the MS example, and discuss the other points.

And as for those who excoriated me on the MS, I respect your opinions and your right to have and post your opinions, but I'm not insulted, and have no intention of responding.

[AllieSF]

Well handled Steffi. I agree with you that both sides have an obligation to try to reveal pertinent facts about past and current issues, events or whatever which may affect one's decision. The interesting thing here is that there is so much defense of GG's here, to the point of ignoring that the SO has some obligations too. Unfortunately, posts like yours get sidetracked so easily when unnecessary extraneous information and poor analogies are included in the OP. In your case your wife's MS, which if some of the attackers here would have read clearly stated that it was discovered/diagnosed after you got married. There are members here that put the GG SO, usually someone else's, on such a high pedestal and the poor CDer trying to figure themselves out are thrown down in the gutter. They expect that we all immediately totally respect any GG who happens to participate here, when some of them have such a big chip on their shoulders and never hesitate to put in a stinger one line comment to someone's serious post, with no substantial input provided to the overall thread topic. We are supposed to respect that GG for her snide derogatory comment? I am afraid not. I respect all human beings and expect the same from males as well as females. If someone does something that lessens my respect, then they, not me, have to work to regain that trust and respect. If I am the one that loses the trust and respect from someone I like, then I have the work to do. The other problem here is that we have a lot of transgender's that finally came out to their SO's after years of hiding. It seems that many of those then become the newly born and redeemed evangelists condemning all those that are doing the same that the new evangelist did in the past. The feel no obligation nor compassion to cut the OP any slack. They are oh so quick to condemn and I almost never hear a, "Oh, thanks for the clarification. I might have been a little too harsh in my original response, please accept my apology." It would be nice to hear that here once in awhile in those situations. I like Deedee's post. It is very hard to always get the OP's original intent when maybe they did not write clearly about the point that they wanted to make. The aggressive ones here would rather attack instead of asking for a simple clarification of the intent of the OP. But then we all know how that is, it is easier and more fun to attack from a so called righteous position than to ask that clarifying question. Megan, I hope that Steffi's clarification helped you to better understand her questions now. I actually got it from her original post. Your rude admonitions were unnecessary.

[Marcelle]

Hi Allie . . . well said. I never ceases to amaze me how so many are free with a "smarmy and rude quip" after making assumptions or not taking time to read the OP and yet never come back with a "sorry" after clarity is brought. Alas . . . it would be a boring world if such god-like beings were not around to point out the flaws of us mere mortals.

Hugs

Isha

[Teresa]

Steffi the point you make about your wife disclosing her sexual needs maybe put her in the same situation as many CDers, they thought it would come good when they got married. Women possibly have higher expectations of marriage than men, almost as if it comes with a bottle of cure all ! In most cases the men are blamed when it doesn't !
I can't speak from personal experience but dealing with your wife's illness can't have been easy, maybe you're just asking where do I fit into all this ? what about me and my needs ? You're only human and I can understand that feeling, I think with age we do think more like that. Then we live with the guilt of feeling selfish !!

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Steffi, In a perfect world we would be living in the garden of EDEN.

[Jessica86]

Why are only CDs blamed for not disclosing before marriage?

Because that is usually the biggest/most important secret in the relationship. She usually can't top it. Usually.

Are you a relationship expert? How do you KNOW usually? I will tell you what I KNOW from experiences.

My first marriage? ENDED with the fact her whole family was part of a massive family sex ring. She also had a serious drug and drinking problem. Let's just say SWAT raided her house and arrested her brother, father, and mother for a total of SEVEN felony warrants. Yeah. I also WAITED ten years for her (both virgins) to find out she cheated 48 hours before our wedding night. I found out THE NIGHT we were together on our WEDDING NIGHT that I waited for....for ten years....and remained faithful to her. I found the strength to forgive....THAT. I think THAT was much worse than ANYTHING crossdressing related.

I've also found out many secrets in my current marriage, which I will not disclose since I promised her I wouldn't. They are MUCH more than just "I like to wear these clothes." As my wife says "I find it hard to deal with Jessica, but you put up with X and X and X without batting an eye. I know you love me so much, and that makes it so much easier for me to realize who cares if this is us. It is US, not them."

Bottom line, everyone has baggage. EVERYONE. Guys and girls. As I've said in another thread, there are people that have sex with knives with a cutting obsession/fetish. Those who have a fetish for filth, sex with food, threesomes, and even people obsessed with fire play. There are SO many things out there, and these are all COMMON fetishes found in couples. There are couples that make THAT stuff work, and enjoy life together.

I won't point fingers, but I think people who are asking "How can I deal with my husbands crossdressing problem" need to grow up. There are FAR much worse things that can happen in a marriage. Be happy you are both sharing love together, and you have someone who loves you so much, they share the most intimate secrets of their lives with you! Isn't that what we ALL are searching for? Isn't that what you will search for if you leave him? Another guy who shares his secrets with you? What you don't think about is what secrets await you THEN?

[Tinkerbell-GG]

I can only say this from what I've personally witnessed, obviously, but I don't mind suggesting that I do sometimes think men are more willing (or able?) to accept our secrets and issues than we do of men. I have many a girlfriend who've tossed a marriage aside for things that seem so small and shallow. I also have friends who put up with far more than they should, but they're less common than the 'give up' kind. (This always makes me feel like a freak that I'm still here, to be honest ) Of course, as we see with the GGs here, there are also those willing to learn and accept. Just not as many as those who won't, as PaulaQ mentioned. The husbands, on the other hand, just seem to turn a blind eye to most things that happen in the relationship. Hearing both sides has always made me shake my head at how different men and women perceive things.

Why? I suspect men are more capable of compartmentalising issues like illness or sexuality or even gender, from the relationship. We women seem to entwine everything together so it's very hard to separate the issue (in this case, crossdressing) from everything else, even though you, and our relationship with you, is so much more than this one thing. This 'beast' that we create then affects every part of our lives, how we see you and ourselves and how we perceive others view us, and soon we've literally made a volcano out of a mole hole.

Since learning to compartmentalise more, I can honestly say I see my H the way I once did - as the man I married. It's very freeing not to mix everything together like I used to. It also helps that he's become very controlled and considerate about his dressing and I suspect many here with unhappy wives are perhaps not so honest about their own behaviour?

[Tamara Croft]

Before we were even married 2 years, my wife was diagnosed with MS

I think this sentence is your problem, most people skim through posts and don't read them correctly, I read the whole thread before I decided to post and then read your first post again. I have to admit, I read this wrong also, took it to mean 2 years before you were married, not 2 years into the marriage, which is why I think you got so many negative reactions to it.

It just shows you, on an internet forum, unless you are very clear in your posts, people will take that holier than thou attitude and slam you into the fence...

[Candice Mae]

............................................ Read Tamara's post wrong, I need to go to bed.

Anyway I appreciate the OP realizing her error in including her wife's MS as an example.

[Tamara Croft]

Yes go to bed, I saw your edit Candice tut tut...

[Ressie]

Relationships are very complex and complicated. First of all, every human is unique. So we can generalize about the differences between men and women, CDs and non-CDs, or any category we can think of, yet it all adds up to one unique person trying to live with another unique person. Also, every person is every changing. We learn and grow every day, and sometimes we decide to change something about our lives. There are so many topics that two people won't agree on and those disagreements may lead to divorce. i.e sex, money, religion, work, family etc. How often do you want sex? What do you like to spend discretionary income on? Do you have any secret sexual fetishes or preferences? hmmm…. It doesn't work if one person discloses personal secrets and the other doesn't!

It's my belief that everyone should read several relationship books before thinking about marriage. Too bad this is rarely suggested by parents, teachers or counselors when we're at the usual marrying age (20s-early30s).

[JamieOH]

My wife has changed allot since we married. She has become very different. . Much of it is do to health. She got sick, almost died 3 times the last one was real close, full organ shut down(lungs, kidneys, heart).. she gained a lot of weight because of medication and depression from being ill. I understand that, so i try hard to remember that when she goes psycho on me. She became very homophobic, and while she tolerates my dressing, she sometimes says horrid mean things. Obviously i did not reversal this side of me until later in the marriage. Not out of dishonesty but i denied it to myself. Kept trying to stop the urges. Hating myself for it. Suffering and denying. The difference here is very little. Neither of us had any secret we were hiding. This side of me was not a secret as she knew i enjoyed silky women's lacy things. And had even bought me a nightie once. But the extent to which this was a part of me was hidden so deep even i had no idea. Neither of us are to blame for anything other than being human. We grow and learn and change and sometimes it's great wonderful changes. And sometimes it's not. But through all of it, i know she needs me. And i made her a promise 18 years ago, for better or worse, sickness and health. And well, i aim to keep it. There is no blame in marriage. There is just us, and we must remember that we are human. Fallible, ignorant, sometimes selfish, but always us.

[Tracii G]

It would have been nice if my second wife had told me she was a writer of bad checks and engaged in illegal activity in her business before I married her.
I think that would have been a deal breaker.

[paulaprimo]

what a great idea for a new thread..."how our ex-wives messed up our life"

when my ex's said "i do", i didn't know they were talking about with all of my friends!

[Beverley Sims]

I feel that women have a lot of skeletons in the cupboard also.
Especially "women of the world" who marry some meek and mild man.
Are they taking him for a ride?

[MelanieAnne]

Why are only CDs blamed for not disclosing before marriage?

Because that is usually the biggest/most important secret in the relationship. She usually can't top it. Usually.

My buddy dated a woman for several years, and she never took a drink. On their wedding night, she went through 3 bottles of champagne and never looked back. She drank a bottle of vodka every day, and was almost constantly drunk. She also concealed thousands of dollars of gambling debts, from a gambling problem. She died of liver failure, a week after their divorce was final!

Another friend of mine married a woman only to find out later she had a no good kid in prison, with a record as long as your arm.
CDers don't have a monopoly on deception and concealment.

[amyjacks2014]

^.^

I think this forum may seem to make it look as though CDers are the only ones disclosing, because various aspects of it, and conversations about it are all over this venue. However, other posters here are also right ... women have things that they keep to themselves, things that they disclose perhaps later.

I think that the general idea espoused by most here, that communication with your SO is important so that THIS part of yourself is not what is being hidden from them.


Amy M. Jackson