I went through the muscle car phase, but I was a long haired country boy. I now have a 2003 Tundra as my daily driver and my monster F 350 4 x 4 diesel which I often drive en femme. Never got into scruffy beards or camo though. Guess I was (and still am) a non conformist.
Men will do whatever they think will attract women. The duck dynasty thing is a perfect example of that; guys thinking that women will be attracted to guys who look like the millionaires on TV. Same as girls being attracted to guys with their oversize baggy pants hanging off their butts because the rich rappers dress that way. Girls will put up with pretty much any look if a guy has enough money (or appears to).
Same with light trucks. It's a macho thing. Look at all the monster truck shows, and how all those drivers want a tougher, meaner truck than the next guy; the whole monster truck thing about pickups built up so much that they can 'crush' other people's vehicles. Cars, well you can only go so fast before the tickets (and more importantly the insurance surcharges) get too expensive. So they ride around slow in a big truck. And, you can also get extra work with a truck. More and more, cars are becoming easily damaged, not to mention tiny. Over and over in sports car circles, some cars get labeled as sissy cars, and no matter how nice, many guys won't touch them. The Mazda Miata was a perfect example of the perfect little sports car; everything the British MG's, Austins, Triumphs, etc., were, only dead reliable and water tight. But it was branded a 'girlfriend' car, so lots of guys wouldn't touch it, and made fun of any guy who did. Not to mention, light trucks are designed to emulate their bigger full size brothers. All vehicles are now defined by how mean and tough they look, like they're going to bite you.
I never did understand the three day growth of beard being attractive to women. I believe Don Johnson made it popular back in the 80's. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Camo is another masculine signal that infers the wearer is in the armed forces, again, a way to imply being a big, tough soldier who can depend on the rest of his army to defend him and his mates whenever necessary. Again the whole 'I'm a tough guy' pose.
And now that gas is as cheap as it's ever been, driving a gas hog truck isn't prohibitive cost wise. So we'll see more and more trucks sold (they're also among the most profitable vehicles the car companies sell).
Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there some tax advantage to buying a pickup? I'm going on what was said on an episode of Top Gear not that long ago. The fact that they're cheap might go some way to explaining their popularity when times are hard.
Who dares wears Get in, get out without being noticed
I don't read anything into it.
It's still duck season here. I went into a large duck hunting store that is kind of a meca for duck hunters a couple of weeks ago. For years I've been amused at the number of guys who wear earrings with their camo, including camo and duck-themed earrings. They apparently pick their earrings to match their outfit. By the way, there are LOTS of women around here who actually hunt. Feminine girly-girls. It's just their thing. I say more power to them! I like my stilettos, they like hunting boots. We'd make an interesting couple!
As discussed on "how to get a close shave" threads, many of us say that we get our best shaves with a 3-day beard growth. I shave every day, but if you see me with a 3-day scruff, you know that a dressup session is imminent. So when I see other guys with a scruff........nah, can't be........can it?
Much ado about pick-ups and camo. Both men and women (and kids) make statements with other items: SUV's, girly cars, clothing, electronics, even homes. A real estate salesman told me of a house he listed, big and beautiful (the house - haha) great curb appeal and a great location. Mattresses on the floor, concrete blocks and boards for shelves, no furniture. But the owners loved the image of living there.
BTW, I think the original premise is sooooo out there.Originally Posted by aBoyNamedSue
Why does there have to be anything nefarious when it comes to dudes relishing the fact they are dudes and they are all good with being dudes and love having mounds of face fur to out-dude their dude friends who are secure in being the dudes they are???
Look at this guy (edit: see previous post #25). He is clearly stoked with his facial creation and also happily bares his chest to show off the furry goods there. What's not to marvel about such a thing???
And remember, a lot of women LOVE this look because, well...they are attracted to DUDES!
Seriously. We want people to understand and accept who we are and/or what we do. Why is it so difficult to do the same for others???
And for those who don't get it, if you see a Hipster on your lawn, be sure to yell at him to get off!!!
Last edited by Sara Jessica; 01-27-2016 at 09:57 AM.
Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)
Sarah, I really really have no problem with guys wanting to be macho guys. Enjoying their masculinity. In fact, I am not among the fans of certain politically correct gender neutral stuff. However, what I am observing as of late, is that the masculinity of the western world seems to be an ever reducing list of what is acceptable for what masculinity is. Case in point, the leg crossing threads. I just chuckle at them because it was only a couple of decades ago that this was not even a masculine or feminine issue at all. On a couple of occasions I even posted a photo showing Sean Connery as 007 crossing his legs knee over knee. Now, a guy here in the U.S. who does this is deemed to be sitting fem style.
Now, this sudden bearded and very un kept look may just be a fad. But I do wonder that what we as a society are deeming to be masculine for men is reducing the ability of men to do only very few jobs, drive only certain select vehicles (pick up trucks) and only look a certain way. It just seems like the limitations of what is masculinity these days is reducing masculine men to be clones of each other. You never see the lumber sexual dance, accept for slow dancing, or singing, god forbid. their gait is a completely uncouth lumbering about. Workboots in all seasons now. Camo of course, which I just personally think is a silly look, but that is just my opinion.
I have thought hard about my past as a teenager, and how many of us had pick up trucks, and how many of our parents dropped us off or picked us up in them. Not many. But now, they seem to be almost, at least in this area, the most common vehicle to drive, especially for men. Economics probably do play a part I am sure. Gas is adjusted for inflation about as cheap as it has ever been. But still, unless you really really need one of these, why get one?
I really am not knocking the working man here, I promise, nor am I knocking anyone who has one. It is just part of what I am seeing here as a trend. Not that someone has one, but guys, especially younger guys now feel they have to have one in order to be considered masculine.
Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned
Are you suggesting I'm a girl? Well... I guess I should thank you?
(I'm about to install a roll bar in my Miata, not to look macho but to be allowed into Track Days)
I wonder if some of the guys with trucks are trans, and the truck is a way for them to cover it up or an attempt to run away from being trans.
g7:
It's called Over Compensation...
DeeAnn
No one examines these issues more closely than this community. I think some members desperately want to believe they are naturally more feminine than non-CDers and so they cross their legs and say this is a feminine thing to do. People who are not in this community don't think twice about who does or does not cross their legs.
Because they're useful! You don't have to be a farmer or construction contractor to need one. I'd love to own a truck and it has nothing to do with femininity or masculinity.
Reine
I think you are making something out of nothing. What you are seeing is nothing more than a fashion trend. It will pass.
I own a truck. Most of the time the car gets me where I'm going but I would have a hard time carrying plywood and lumber for a home project in a smart car.
Some guys really need big trucks. Some don't but have one, feeling the need to say to other guys "mine is bigger than yours".
My thread is really not about pick up trucks. It is just part of an observation I made that younger males, teenagers or early 20's now are driving them as a means of showing masculinity, or feel they should drive a pick up truck, because to an increasing number these days, it is the "man vehicle"
Reine, as for the leg crossing thing, I agree that it is not the ultra feminine thing to cross ones legs, or at least it didn't used to be. It has become that. Part of what I am observing is that masculinity or the accepted expression of such seems to me to be reducing what a masculine man can do. Cars are becoming too feminine, dancing now too feminine. wearing anything other than work boots.... Again, I am generalizing to a big degree, but it is an upward trend. Here is a link to a video about leg crossing and why so few younger males do it these days....
https://youtu.be/-2_fjB2iSiw
Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned
Again, I think this sort of thing is scrutinized only by a segment of the population, people in this community certainly and maybe a bunch of young people who are working out their pecking orders in life. Just about every portrayal of gender in the media is stereotypical (overly generalized) and honestly without this, people wouldn't have a topic for articles or youtube videos.
She is actually saying how silly are the "man-spreading" rules. I agree with her. As to the man-spreading advice she is quoting, it is from a transman website. Not surprising. She goes on to show examples of "man-shrinking" and shows a picture of Obama with legs crossed. Do you think the average person in this country accuses Obama of being feminine because he crossed his legs? She then goes on to cite two men who were ridiculed for crossing legs, but this happened in middle and high school! We cannot look at the things kids make fun of and take them to be the direction that gender expression takes in adulthood for most people. She then goes on to cite one woman (ONE, not a survey of 500 women across all ages and socio-economic backgrounds), in websites whose aim is to increase traffic among young people by adhering to the "let's talk about gender-dividing stereotypical things" and create a buzz.
So yeah. There are some people outside this community who think about which of their behaviors make them look more masculine, but it is much less than you imagine it to be. Start observing a lot of people where you live, and notice those who don't fit into what you are describing in this thread just as much as those who do.
Reine
Reine, I am a people watcher, big time. Noticing what people do and how they act etc etc is something I have always done a lot of. One of the reasons why I posted this thread, is what I am observing something that is happening more in my area, or is it more widespread. I do think that for whatever reason, the particular area in which I live is being hit harder by this lumbersexual movement, if you will. It is odd to me that it is more prevalent where I live as it would not be expected to be.
The video itself shows that what was once not an issue, now is. And yes, it is the younger ones who may be taunting and teasing, but I can guarantee you that most men under the age of say 40 in my area at least, very very few cross their legs knee over knee. Those older don't see it as an issue because it didn't used to be. As much as both you and I are in agreement with the woman doing the video, it is that this stuff exists now so much more now than it used to, and that is the point of my thread
Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned
Well then, you're entitled to your opinions.
I see some of what you describe around here, but it is not the norm. People are too diverse for that.
Reine
One thing I have noticed since 3 years ago when I stopped the repression of CDing is that my perceptions have altered a bit. Usually for the better, but not always. Sometimes I can hyper focus on things. I feel I am mostly more correct with my perceptions but can get a little more off occasionally, if any of that makes any sense. I asked my wife maybe a month ago or so, if she remembered this area being "so redneck" She seemed to think it has gotten a bit moreso around this area as well.
I travel a lot to the Chesapeake area in Virginia, and while it is a vastly populated area, little of it is actually straight urban. It is a lot of endless suburban. Plenty of young guys living the redneck dream, but I SWEAR.... there is a higher concentration where I live in the liberal northeast. Much higher actually. So, again, I was wondering through this board which such a cross section if what I am seeing is geo specific, and it looks like from the responses and some internet wandering, that it is more prevalent up here, but it is something that is occurring most places in the U.S. Now comes the reasons why?????
Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned
It depends on what part of SoCal you're in. Up here in the high country a pickup is part of the redneck uniform - along with the flannel shirt, jeans and work boots. Facial hair is somewhat optional. But not any pick up will do. It has to be a 1 ton or what's the use? A 1 ton dually for pulling your stock trailer or a 1 ton FWD for general purpose. You are as likely to see a woman driving one as a man. My wife drives our truck more than I do. Our unofficial motto for this area is it's where men are men and so are the women.No duck dynasty beards on SoCal. Too few to mention anyway.
And, 1/2 the pickups and most of the giant SUV's r driven by women here. Not very well at that! Of course, the tradesmen aren't much better. They take 2 parking places on purpose. The soccer moms do it by accident!
I suppose this is another side of it ... the political divide in this country is becoming downright ascerbic, given all the issues that are against the rules to discuss here (and for good reason ... to preserve general harmony). I dare say this might (might) have an impact on how people choose to present. I think a lot of people are getting angry even if subconsciously. I think a lot of people are feeling powerless. And there is less disposable income available for the middle and lower income classes compared to 30 years ago and beards, jeans and inexpensive shirts are easier on the budget. Gas is low too, for all those trucks.
Still, there are plenty of people who do not present the way you describe or if they do, it's just a question of fad or convenience. We are indeed a diverse lot.
Reine
Just wanted to say this is a such a funny thread for someone in Europe.. sure we haul stuff, but that's what combo's and vans are for.. why on earth would your vehical need to be open, doesn't it rain in America?
One of the most interesting threads I've seen in ages, and long time no chat Gendermutt!
I think it entirely possible that you're right, that the trend you've noticed is a reaction to the steadily rising profile of non-trad gender expression.
But isn't it also true that during the 'wildly liberal' 1960s, facial hair and scruffy clothing was the fashion? Plenty of gender-bending then too.
My own hunch is that you're seeing a combination of effects, including the increasing absence of formality, where many people's biggest social dread is in being overdressed. I was at my father's funeral in a very hot country a couple of years ago and was astonished to see his closest friend, who I think of as ultra conservative, turn up in shorts and a tee-shirt, while I wore a black suit.
We are at an interesting time, where society's trad values are increasingly attacked and undermined, but look into the past and see how conservative men used to dress! Huge wigs, white powder on their faces, platform shoes, silk stockings- what would they have thought of your rednecks, or the '60s hippies?
I used to have a short attention spa
I'm with Rhonda Jean on this one.
People just "like what they like" Somethings are just gender neutral.
About a year ago I was at Dick's Sporting Good in Hickory NC Shopping. There was a
twenty something very attractive , very feminine girl with her boyfriend/Husband buying a hunting rifle. She was more knowledgeable than the sales clerk. She knew exactly what she wanted.
As for trucks, I want one too. Everybody here NC seems to have one.
Not much of a guy or girl if you don't have one lol.
TaraGrace, yes it rains here in America, but not all the time (except in the Pacific northwest - ha). Cargo hauled in a pick-up bed can be kept dry with tarps or camper tops. Open pick-up beds, protected by molded or spray-in bedliners, make it easier to hose out the blood after transporting a body.
Lots of deer hunters here, ya know.
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