... And nobody said anything...

[char GG]

What does this mean to you?

I went out in a skirt and nobody said anything.
I went out with nail polish and nobody said anything.
I wore pantyhose under my pants and nobody said anything.
I had a bra on when someone hugged me and nobody said anything.
I hiked in the woods in a skirt and nobody said anything.
I biked with forms and nobody said anything.
TSA saw my stocking feet and forms but didn't say anything.
I had a pedicure with nail color and nobody said anything.
I went shopping in the lingerie department and nobody said anything.
I left my panties and bra on a chair in the doctor's office and nobody said anything.

So, my question to any of you that some of these statements pertain to are:

What do you think anyone would say?
Does it mean acceptance to you?
If they notice, do you think they would say something if you were a perfect stranger?
If they know you, do you think they would say something?
Are you hoping someone notices and says something?
Are you hoping someone notices and "doesn't say" anything?
If they said something positive, would you be happy that they noticed?
If they said something negative, would it bother you?
Are you just happy that "nobody says anything"?

After years of seeing this "and nobody said anything" statement, I'm curious.

[phili]

Hi Char,
What do you think anyone would say? >Some rejecting or norm enforcing punitive words.
Does it mean acceptance to you? >Not quite, but close. More like tolerance.
If they notice, do you think they would say something if you were a perfect stranger?> Plenty of people feel entitled to communicate their views.
If they know you, do you think they would say something? > Depends on their ability to process the norm transgression...and feel comfortable with their response.
Are you hoping someone notices and says something? >Glad to rip the bandaid off but not looking forward to any pain
Are you hoping someone notices and "doesn't say" anything? > Better than saying something negative - leaves better options open
If they said something positive, would you be happy that they noticed? >Yes
If they said something negative, would it bother you? >Not any more. I have realized norms are deeply embedded and it is the most likely outcome.
Are you just happy that "nobody says anything"? >Yes- it makes space to live.

Overall, it was a huge relief to find no one says things most of the time. And that makes it easier to not get set back when sometimes someone is upset or cruel.
It made space to just feel ok choosing my clothes and realizing that everyone has their own relationship to clothes and gender and life in general. So people generally behaving tolerantly is a very good thing.

THe reason we marvel at it at first is that when we were kids someone made it very clear in an unkind way that transgressing the norms was going to be responded to with severe punishments, beginning with social rejection.

[Rhonda Jean]

Add to that, "Nobody noticed" and "Nobody cared."

The fact that nobody said anything absolutely does not mean that they didn't notice or didn't care, nor is it a sign of acceptance. It might, but all it really means is that people are generally too polite to say anything, or they'd be embarrassed to, or they realize there's no point in saying anything.

I've been dressing in public since the Nixon administration with a mixture of every imaginable "male mode" thing along with full-on dressing. Off hand I can't remember 3 negative comments. Lots of looks. All of those were particularly memorable because they came from a random stranger. Positive comments from random strangers are just about as rare, but I've interacted positively with a lot of people who knew me; hairdressers, retail workers, nail techs, makeup artists, so it'd be impossible to count the positive comments.

In all that time there's no telling how many people couldn't wait to tell someone else. I'm sure I've been quite the topic for some back room snickering and some hilarity at the dinner table or cocktail party. When I started going out, I was very likely the first and only trans person anybody had ever seen. Of course they're going to talk about it! I just never heard it.

A good example (and I've got many!)... I wore a bra or a bralette every day, all day, for a year and a half without really trying to hide it. Polo shirts, dress shirts usually with an undershirt or a camisole, bralettes when I was wearing a T-shirt. Soft cups (usually), underwires, lacey, plain, you name it. Not one single person, other than my wife, ever said a word about it. I seriously thought nobody noticed (except in situations where I wanted them to). During the divorce I found out that a lot of people noticed. This falls into the category of "What the hell was I thinking!", but because "Nobody said anything", I felt emboldened. Most people would be too embarrassed or just wouldn't want to get into it by asking/commenting.

Probably from years of running through a slalom course or male/female/androgynous/acceptable/unacceptable all over the place gender presentations I've often been about to fool myself into thinking I have some control over what people perceive/notice. Ha! I've passed when I wasn't trying and not passed when I put a ridiculous amount of time, money, and effort into passing. We should never assume that because "nobody said anything" that we passed, or that people didn't notice or don't care. They just didn't say anything.

This should not stop anyone from going out.

[CynthiaD]

When I went to the emergency room for my broken hip and shoulder, they had to cut my clothes off.i was underdressed in lace trimmed panties, pantyhose and a bra. The nurse asked me if I was in transition and I said yes. Then she asked me how I wanted to be addressed, and I said, whatever makes you comfortable. This was the third time I’ve been to the emergency room underdressed, but it’s the first time anyone said anything. BTW, I was proud to show off my bra.

[JulieC]

1. There's a variety of things people could say, both positive and negative.
2. Achieving acceptance among strangers isn't something to strive for, so far as I'm concerned. They're NPCs. I don't care if they accept me.
3. People can and do say things to perfect strangers. I do this all the time (in drab), though it's always intended to be nice. People are quite capable of saying mean things to total strangers.
4. I have no intention of someone who knows me, that doesn't know about my CDing, finding out that I do without my intention.
5. Notices me? No, I hope people leave me alone.
6. So yeah, the best case is being noticed but leaving me alone.
7. If they say something positive, it would be nice.
8. If they say something negative, it wouldn't bother me in the sense of self worth, but I would be more on my toes to be defensive and try to get safe.
9. As above, if they say nothing at all, that's perfect. Just leave me alone.

[Sandi Beech]

People often interpret the lack of comments to mean they passed. That is probably the myth most often cited. Granted some people pass but who cares when you are treated as you are presenting. That is what happens most of the time. I try not to over think it, and just go with the flow.

Sandi

[kimdl93]

I assume that most people do not pay that much attention to strangers, certainly not enough to notice much. And I assume that most people would not say anything if they did notice something unexpected about a stranger, certainly not to the stranger.

So, I guess nobody said anything would mean nothing to me, positive or negative. I expect nothing more.

[JoyceAnn]

Experiencing silence from people is of course preferable to receiving negative comments. However, I enjoy the rare occasion when somebody takes the time to say something nice. In fact, it can make my day. I try to reciprocate.

I think it's normal when nobody says anything. There are many reasons for it. Commonly, people are busy, in a hurry, in deep thought, minding their own business, talking to a friend, etc. They just don't have the bandwidth to pause and give a reaction in the moment.

Going out en femme is the "cake" for me. Kind words (if they happen) from friends and strangers are the "icing".

[Charla]

I’ve been through many doctors visits where I had to drop my pants and my panties were in plain view.

Most recently, I’ve had to do cardiac rehabilitation after bypass surgery and every time I work out, the nurses have to hook me up with a cardio monitor. My bras are in full view as they attach the probes and no one says anything.

The only time my gender identity has come up in a medical situation was during the intake for a yearly wellness exam, where the nurse was confused by my transgender designation. I don’t present as female in public any more so she looked a little confused.

I’m about to go to a Sephora for a foundation color match, so that will be another first. I’m in a fairly conservative area, but when I lived in Houston, it wasn’t a big deal. I frequented a MAC store many times with no comments. They loved my business and even kept a customer file for Charla.

[SaraLin]

Hi Char!

Let me start by saying that my forays into the outside world are far and few between. When I do, I dress fully and I try dressing to blend in, not to catch attention. Unlike what a lot of the other girls here report, I seem to get negative feedback nearly every time.

Emergency room - the doctor overheard saying "I won't admit one of those to the hospital"
Driving down the interstate - people in car driving next to me, laughing and trying to take a picture through the window.
Mall - teenage girls giggling and pointing.
Drug store - angry glare from the cashier and "ha, ha, ha" from her lips.
I could go on, but by now, I'm sure you get my drift.

So now, on to your questions:

What do you think anyone would say?
I don't think - I know. I just wrote a few examples.

Does it mean acceptance to you?
In general, it means that maybe, just maybe, I didn't set off any alarms in their heads.

If they notice, do you think they would say something if you were a perfect stranger?
It seems to be the case, yes

If they know you, do you think they would say something?
If they know me and I'm around them, they already know.

Are you hoping someone notices and says something?
No - to both parts of the question.

Are you hoping someone notices and "doesn't say" anything?
Still no.

If they said something positive, would you be happy that they noticed?
If they noticed what?
If they noticed my male-ness underneath, then no. It means I've failed. (gay club, guy tried to hook up with a "drag queen")
If they're complimenting my outfit, or something like that, then I'm happy. (hasn't happened - ever.)

If they said something negative, would it bother you?
Yes. I've learned to not let it totally crush me like it used to, but it still hurts.

Are you just happy that "nobody says anything"?
Yes, pretty much.
My desired outcome is that I'm simply seen/treated as just an average late-middle-age to senior-age lady, and any interactions with other people are done as such. I don't want to be the center of attention, either positive or negative. When I do venture out, I just want to be me - Sara. Why does that have to be so hard?

[Andrea Renea]

I go out in supposably backwards NC.

Never had a bad comment. They may
talk about me after I leave but I don't
care.

I've always been treated with respect
addressed as "ma'am or miss"

If someone wants to talk to me I talk to them.

I'm sure they know Im a male in feminine
clothing

I've been though TSA with my forms packed
in my carry on bag, no issues. Only worn them
one time flying. It was though TSA pre-check.
I was dressed in male clothes. again no issue.

All said I do not need other people's acceptance.



.

[Charla]

I went through TSA with a wireless pull-on bra (Bali brand) on and with significant breast development and it was detected as an anomaly on my male presentation. A female TSA agent said that she would have to check me as a female. I had no problem with that and she examined by breast area quickly and discretely.

[CarlaWestin]

As I've recounted before, when I worked, one person asked if I was wearing clear nail polish. I said yes and that she was the only person who noticed. The reply was that everybody noticed, she was just the only one to say something to me about it.
I've seen from many videos of out and about adventures that more people appear to notice but do so discretely.

[Bianca Fay]

Char, this is a topic that I have often thought about. So many of us seem to confuse silence as acceptance.

People DO notice. They might not say anything at the time but you can bet they talk about us later. We are an extremely unique part of the population and they do notice.

I remember a time when my tenant walked into my kitchen while I was getting a drink. I was wearing a sheer pair of nude pantyhose under my shorts and tried to convince myself later that she couldn't have noticed. We talked for a few minutes and I realized that the reinforced toes of my nylons would have been a dead giveaway.

She has never said a word since about that incident; however, whenever she talks to me now, I see her discreetly glance down at my feet.

Her silence doesn't indicate acceptance. If anything it merely indicates politeness on her part.

[April Rose]

What do you think anyone would say? If I noticed, i wouldn't say anything.
Does it mean acceptance to you? I would think that it was none of my business.
If they notice, do you think they would say something if you were a perfect stranger? I wouldn't. Why ask for an unnecessary awkward situation?
If they know you, do you think they would say something? If I knew the person I might. It would depend on how well I knew them.
Are you hoping someone notices and says something? No.
Are you hoping someone notices and "doesn't say" anything? No.
If they said something positive, would you be happy that they noticed? Yes. I've been SHE'd when presenting adrogynously, And the feeling was positive.
If they said something negative, would it bother you? Probably, yes,
Are you just happy that "nobody says anything"? Not sure. I do know that I've found that I don't mind if people find out I'm trans, I just hate telling them.

[DianeT]

The way I understand "nobody said anything" is that the member expects some kind of reaction but observes none. It seems to be a mix of surprise and relief at the same time. I suppose that is more something that members going out for the first time will report. This is the kind of thing I would probably write if I ever went out and had an uneventful experience. Apparently we don't take absence of negative reactions for granted. Sara Lin's experience is interesting because it goes against the majority of testimonies seen here. Although 1 person doesn't make a statistic, the repeated experience of a single person becomes something worth noting. Since I can't imagine Sara Lin's experience being an isolated case, it may be the indication that there may be a bias in the reports we get on this site. Maybe the members who got bad experiences are less inclined to comment about them. Or maybe Sara Lin you are more self-conscious than the average in this audience and noticed negative cues that would have gone unnoticed by others. Or happen to live in a less inclusive neighborhood. These are all suppositions of my part. When and if other members who got some flak when going out decide to add their testimonies on this site, we will get the beginning of an answer. Wait and see.

[JesseVF]

I?m always a bit paranoid when out dressed. Especially at first and then I relax after a while. I?ve been on the receiving end of stares and double takes, and also pleasant, kind of knowing smiles, and even a couple compliments. Also in the right situation like in a crowd, not being noticed at all - I think.
To me nobody said anything means:
They truly didn?t notice - perfect.
They noticed and don?t like it but didn?t feel the need to make a negative remark.
If noticed and give a compliment that?s fine too.

[BiancaEstrella]

Silence isn't acceptance (who knows what any given person is thinking), but it does indicate that no conflict took place.

Given how ... variable society has been on gender issues lately, the absence of conflict is a win. It's why we have TDoR every November; sadly, not all of us who experience and live aloud with whichever version of gender variance we deal with makes it back home safely.

If someone has overcome their nerves to venture out in the world, and they were not met with any conflict or hostility, I'd say that's a win for them. If they receive some kind words, that's even better!

[Maid_Marion]

Nobody said anything was a common occurrence when I tried to dress as a guy. I may have been because it was hard to find clothes that fit properly, never mind being stylish.

I find folks are a lot more friendly when I wear obviously feminine clothes. I was at a golf course and a guy asked about the car I was driving. This is in Hartford, a New England city that has seen better economic times.
An older lady golfer greeted me on the course when I caught up to their foursome. I'd like to think that she did that because my play was as good as the guys she was playing with. I was hitting some pretty good shots onto the green that day.

The support staff at medical places will often have a short chat with me. I'll get compliments on my nail polish or shoes. Sometimes this results in better healthcare.
I'll be more wordy with my responses and they will realize they need to request some medical records. I think men and women communicate differently, so when I have a female presentation I convey a lot more information, some of which is occasionally useful.

Marion

[OrdinaryAverageGuy]

Some things truly aren't noticed. My best friend and I were talking and the subject went to body hair, and removal, and such, and during the conversation as we were discussing leg hair he noticed that I don't have any. And he asked. I answered "no I don't shave, that's for girls. Men rip their leg hair out by the roots." A few months later he brought it up again (he couldn't stay away from the topic!) and I told him people don't even notice. He said "I noticed!" And I responded "It took you 10 years to notice, and only then when we were talking about leg hair." He was dumbfounded.

[Maid_Marion]

I've had guy friends who noticed I shaved my legs. As well as when I first wore a skirt. A mom of a transgender kid smiled when she heard the comment wondering about the skirt. She posts pictures of her daughter on Facebook and has trouble remembering the proper pronouns.

[SaraLin]

Or maybe Sara Lin you are more self-conscious than the average in this audience and noticed negative cues that would have gone unnoticed by others.

Well Diane, I will admit that I am quite self-conscious when I'm out. I don't get the chance very often after all.
BUT the negative reactions I got weren't at all subtle.

I'm not surprised that I don't "pass" (or even blend in) all that well. I have too many "tells" and I haven't learned how to hide them all.

But I am distressed to discover that my mere presence still stirs up open hostility. The much talked about "increased acceptance" doesn't seem to have found its way to me.

So - whenever I'm out and "nobody says anything" I count that as pretty much of a win.
On the few rare occasions where I interacted with someone and I was "just" another woman, it felt so right.