Is crossdressing transexual purgatory?

[LaFem]

Absolutely a great question Kitty!

In my case the answer is yes, it is transsexual purgatory. I did not have the fortitude to make the change when I was younger. It (the operation) was scary and primitive, and I didn't have the cojones.

Often an outwardly accepting spouse can become an "enabler," someone who through their acceptance and support makes it easy for a CD husband to get better at being feminine. Unfortunately this seems to make things worse. There is a tipping point, when there is just too much femininity for that SO to even outwardly pretend to accept. It's OK to see your husband's feminine side once in a while, but not so good when he's girly-girl all the time. (I don't just mean dressed, but swishing around and acting fem all the time) I know about this. It's real easy to slip down that slippery nylon slope!

If you find yourself negotiating, cajoling, pressuring, and otherwise using all your wiles to get more "feminine privileges", be careful. Your wonderful SO has her limits. Give her that space.

As far as active denial of a CD husband wanting to really be a woman, I think that is quite common. I read the posts on this forum; many, many express this thought. We have sort of finally accepted (most of us) that we are all TG in some way, and sometimes it can be easy to find ourselves in a different place on that TG spectrum.

[MsJanessa]

well darling I'm sure that all transexuals start as crossdressers, but many crossdressers, in fact the majority I suspect, are not interested in either living full time as a woman or in undergoing SRS. I know I'm not.

[Mistybtm]

for me crossdressing is a form of harmless expression of my feminine side pluss i love it so :D, I am more calm relaxed when dressed and i just love the feeling of being a woman for a time and being treated like one with my male dates yes i am BI. and love the best of both worlds.
Mistybtm

[LoriFlores]

Is crossdressing transexual purgatory? Do crossdresseres participate in active denial that they really want to be women but do not have the nerve or the ability to do so? Or is crossdressing a form of harmless expression of a feminine side that men are not allowed to routinly express?

Kitty

I know in my case it is definately transexual purgatory.

[gennee]

[SIZE="4"]A lot depends upon the person. Personally, I have no desire to transition. I love to wear women's clothing and they are so comfortable. I am very happy and content as a transgender and transvestite.

Gennee[/SIZE]

[charlie]

I do not mean to offend anyone but after watching the Opra show on Friday I have been doing some serious thinking. (dangerous I know )

Both families featured discussed their journey to living full time female. Both considered themselves crossdressers. Both wive's accepted this and even stayed when they transitioned. Both mtf's stated that the urge to crossdress became stronger and stronger progressing to more frequent and more feminine. One claimed he could have been discribed as an efeminate male (his wife said not, she had no idea). One described the feeling as a rage burning within him. A feeling that he would explode if he did not make the transition.
All the while the wive's were thinking this was a phase or something. Obviously these feelings were not expressed to the spouse.

My question is, then what is the motivation to participate if participation will lead to more frequency and fine tunning , if you will. I think most gg's are willing participants to a point but it is not our thing. We go along because it means something to our spouse, so naturally, most would prefere the frequency to diminish not accelerate.

Is crossdressing transexual purgatory? Do crossdresseres participate in active denial that they really want to be women but do not have the nerve or the ability to do so? Or is crossdressing a form of harmless expression of a feminine side that men are not allowed to routinly express?

Kitty

Hello Kitty!
I crossdress because it makes me feel great to see in the mirror a set of legs and outfits that turn me on. In no way do I however want to be a woman. I just like the way it feels and looks. On the other hand the sexy feel is a type of an addiction, I do like to dress whenever I can get away and do it.

[Jocelyn Quivers]

In my own case, I just consider my cross-dressing being an overall lifelong evolution and growing process. It's gone from merely being a sexual fetish when I was younger and in denail. To a few years ago when I came out the closet to myself and said whew! I'm just a CD.

Now I'm slowly progressing to the point where I feel more comfortable being dressed as woman as opposed to a guy. I'm in the process of trying to reduce my the size of my upper body to a more smaller feminine size as opposed to being more muscular. I'm at the point where I totally despise my facial hair and hate having to shave it ever day.

Which is why I'm at the point of pricing various permanent hair removal options. Where this will all end up at, I don't know. I guess for me once the inner woman was let out of the bottle. There was no putting her back in. Jocelyn

[ShannonDragon]

Is crossdressing transexual purgatory? Do crossdresseres participate in active denial that they really want to be women but do not have the nerve or the ability to do so? Or is crossdressing a form of harmless expression of a feminine side that men are not allowed to routinly express?

Kitty

IMHO :2c: NO! I am a crossdresser. I have been a crossdresser all my life. I have no desire to be cut, snipped, pumped up, sucked out or whatever. I am a male. My mind thinks like a male and I plan to stay that way.

Also I am sorry to say that I have met a lot of post op TS folk who say they are now female, but sorry folks, many of them still act like your normal male.

As one of my TG friends is fond of saying " Gender is in your mind, not between you legs".

[Carla Maria]

My, we do get serious at times. I've always enjoyed crossdressing, the feel of the soft and slikys. Just feeling like such a girl. It has been interesting though the years even when kept hidden. Now dressing is becoming easier to share with others. The acceptance from others is surprising at times. I don't think I would want to be a complete woman. I kind of like who I am now and who I will become tomorrow.

[Rachel Morley]

Do crossdressers participate in active denial that they really want to be women but do not have the nerve or the ability to do so? Or is crossdressing a form of harmless expression of a feminine side that men are not allowed to routinly express?

Great question. I love threads like this one

I guess IMHO I would say, it depends. We hear stories all the time of crossdressers who go for it in a big way then apparently something happens to them inside, and they realize that they are a TS all along and then want to transition. Sometimes its not transition but to live full time presenting as a woman.

Then there are other's who I think are like me in the sense that they try to be as feminine as they can both in boy mode and girl mode (in fact what it takes to be really feminine looking in girl mode feminizes your boyself quite a bit) meaning pierced ears, very thin arched eyebrows, shaved hands, arms, legs and body, long shaped fingernails etc. Yet we have no urge to become women or live full time, in fact some of us (not me ... but the majority perhaps?) like to differentiate between boy and girl mode and like to make a clear distinct line between the two as to whether they take a gender vacation or not.

For the most part, I would say that crossdressing is mainly about a ...quote: "harmless expression of a feminine side that men are not allowed to routinly express". :2c:

[Sophie_C]

I do not mean to offend anyone but after watching the Opra show on Friday I have been doing some serious thinking. (dangerous I know )

Both families featured discussed their journey to living full time female. Both considered themselves crossdressers. Both wive's accepted this and even stayed when they transitioned. Both mtf's stated that the urge to crossdress became stronger and stronger progressing to more frequent and more feminine. One claimed he could have been discribed as an efeminate male (his wife said not, she had no idea). One described the feeling as a rage burning within him. A feeling that he would explode if he did not make the transition.
All the while the wive's were thinking this was a phase or something. Obviously these feelings were not expressed to the spouse.

My question is, then what is the motivation to participate if participation will lead to more frequency and fine tunning , if you will. I think most gg's are willing participants to a point but it is not our thing. We go along because it means something to our spouse, so naturally, most would prefere the frequency to diminish not accelerate.

Is crossdressing transexual purgatory? Do crossdresseres participate in active denial that they really want to be women but do not have the nerve or the ability to do so? Or is crossdressing a form of harmless expression of a feminine side that men are not allowed to routinly express?

Kitty

I think for some, yes, for some, I don't know.

I do know that it's quite obvious that there's a lot of things kept in the closet, even in here, due to potential negative repercussions of TV/CDs wives finding out, whether it is curiosities to all-out desires.

I mean, notice every single thread here involving a question of sexuality. The people who are immediately screaming how they never even considered the other side are first, the ones who are married with wives seeing this forum. Then, come the ones who are married whose wives may discover whatever they post. It's not random. They're always first.

Paraphrasing what was said in the movie "the opposite of sex" people who don't have any certain inclinations "don't spend a whole lot of time thinking about it" or immediately react so crazily about it.

Speaking as someone who is extremely closeted TG, I can't say that I understand the fetishistic side of the whole TV/CD thing, so i'll give you that it's possible that TV/CDs are simply fetishists and not TGs with artificial walls placed against taking it further and saying that it's only a fetish, but I can't read their minds. And, with that, they'd not be in purgatory, but simply where they'd want to be.

But, even if that is the case, that's not all people who are in the TV/CD state of being, so to speak, so therefore some definitely are in the purgatory you are talking about (anywhere from a handful of them, to all of them).

How much? We'll never know until it's both a protected and accepted way to live so that those questions can be asked without repercussion. And, that won't happen in any of our lifetimes.

I do think there is a gender spectrum, akin to Kinsey's sexuality spectrum (scale), and will also throw out the possibility that people simply gravitate to where they fall on the scale, naturally. And, maybe it is possible that those who don't go as far on the opposite side of the scale have less of a desire to go further, since that is where they land (think on a scale of 1-10)?

For example,

George Clooney, i'd give a 0:



Chris Crocker (Internet Celebrity), i'd put as a 5:



Shane, from the 'L' Word (not FTM, just not that femme), i'd also put as a 5:




Reese Witherspoon as Elle Woods in "Legally Blonde", i'd give as a 10:



But, as I said, we'll never find that out until negative repercussions are gone, so this is a long ways off.

Good question, though...

[BarbaraTalbot]

I wonder if the meaning of purgatory here is not the common connotation of the word as a synonym for Hell, but rather purgatory as the weigh station were souls go after death to await the actual judgment day where they will be sorted into where they actually belong. It seems in some faiths the prays (read support?) of those left behind can influence the outcome of that sifting process?

Really interesting context for discussion..(but interesting doesn't mean easy to answer!)

Anyway, I agree that the answer varies by the transgendered person. I wish I'd seen the Oprah show because 3rd hand its hard to say. I suspect though that my metaphysical twin wouldn't make very good TV. (no pun intended)

She would have wanted to show the extreme of a full time transexual transition. Even with no desire for say surgery dressing and presenting as a woman full-time is quite different individual than those that lack diaspora towards their male.

In the case of those that DO have an uncomfortable feeling about being male, crossdressing isn't even really an accurate label for what they do when they wear clothes to MATCH their gender rather than bend of cross their gender.

I can see that plenty of TS people may well have dabbled in what would appear to be CD-ing,but I keep hearing on the forum that for such, it was never REALLY about the clothes. For CD's it seems to be MOSTLY about the clothes.

I hear a little angst between the lines, as to whether the loved ones are helping their CD's towards peace tranquility, or ????

My take on that is that no just for the SO and family, but for the CD as well this is pretty important stuff to get right. It is reasonable to wonder whether this is a mid-point or an end point on a journey. I do think though that providing an environment where the CD can be honest with the SO and himself will certainly make it a more consistent journey but I don't think it alters the course or speeds up any process.

As far as it has gone for me. Short version, I realized I am actually a crossdresser, she realized, came here, read, decided to be supportive (although neither she nor I could have defined what is supportive at that time!). I talked to her about how I felt, what I thought I felt anyway. We explored discussed, explored. I think I know who I am, I think I am where I will be. We considered whether this is progressive in nature as you suggest. It seems not to be so in my case. I know it is kind of early to say that, but I find that her support doesn't make me want to dress more, it just makes it more fun when I do. In some ways it has reduced the urge a bit, its lost it's whole forbidden fruit flavor and that feels healthy.

[Vaerise]

With many wonderful replies too.

I feel that CD is a purgatory stage for some people who aren't able to transition fully due to circumstances. I think the majority of CDers are.. pleased with being male but have a feminine side in which they can express in their own way.

[Nicki B]

Both mtf's stated that the urge to crossdress became stronger and stronger progressing to more frequent and more feminine. One claimed he could have been discribed as an efeminate male (his wife said not, she had no idea). One described the feeling as a rage burning within him. A feeling that he would explode if he did not make the transition.
All the while the wive's were thinking this was a phase or something. Obviously these feelings were not expressed to the spouse.

.........Is crossdressing transexual purgatory? Do crossdresseres participate in active denial that they really want to be women but do not have the nerve or the ability to do so? Or is crossdressing a form of harmless expression of a feminine side that men are not allowed to routinly express?

Kitty, it seems to me that the underlying assumption (fear?) in your question is, will we all transition - i.e. is it a slippery slope with only one end for all who dress?

The answer to that HAS to be no - those who fully transition are a small minority. Transitioning is hard, painful (for everyone) and you don't go through all that unless you absolutely have to - for most of us, compromise is possible, if not essential? Remember, shows like Oprah survive on extremes...

But (and it's a big but) this is not a 'choice' - it's the way we are made? How we deal with it is where we have flexibility, but the more we try and suppress that side, the harder it gets... Conversely, the more we let it out, the easier, which I think may be what you find so worrying?

So the answer to your question is, we are all different in the distance we need to travel on that journey. Talk to your partner to help the pair of you understand how far you need to go - but if this has been buried for a long time, expect a few onion skins to be peeled off, before you get to the bottom of it?

Luv,

[Nicki B]

for me crossdressing is a form of harmless expression of my feminine side pluss i love it so

For the most part, I would say that crossdressing is mainly about a ...quote: "harmless expression of a feminine side that men are not allowed to routinly express".

There does perhaps seem to be some wishful thinking, here.. If you are in a close relationship with a woman, unless she is comfortably bisexual, how can it be 'harmless'??

[kittypw GG]

Great answers!!!!!

I think that communication of one's desires is really what jumped out at me. I understand that participating is not going to make someone want to become a women if that desire was not already there but the real question is my mind is wether or not that person is being honest about their desires. Some of you reminded me that thoes desires may be quite hidden from the individual and come out more and more as the fem side is being expressed. A real scary road for the average gg in this kind of relationship. On one hand you want to make your spouse happy and participate but on the other hand you avoid it because you don't know where it will go and don't really want to find out.

My husband has gone through a phase that he thought that he was a women trapped in a man's body. He says that he was confused and did not know what this desire was to wear womens clothes or want to look fem. He thought that he must be a transexual. The more I learn about crossdressers the more I am inclined to believe that he no longer has this idea that he wants to be a women. So where does that put him. us? Or any cd couple for that matter?

Some of you reminded me that great sacrifices are being made on the CD's/Ts's side in the name of love and respect for their commitment in marriage. I am humbled by this.

Thanks for all of your replies. Having discussions like this really helps me define what I think and feel about difficult topics. Sometimes these topics are necessary discussions to have but you would really rather slam your thumb with a hammer.
You all are really the greatest bunch. Kitty

[renee k]

You participate because you love your SO and this is a part of them. If they are really transexual instead of cd then I think eventually that will come out, with or without support. If your spouce was transexual, would you really like to "force" them ,directly or indirectly, to remain where they are not happy? I don't think so. I am honest with my wife that there are some urges for something more than CDing. But I am also honest to myself that transitioning would probably not be an improvement for me. There are trade offs in both cases and each person has to balance all the possible pros and cons before taking non-reversable actions.

I agree with Sally. If I were younger and didn't have a family or career that I care more about. I probalby would have transitioned. But I'm happy with where I'm at with my dressing and have taken it as far as I can without going under the knife.

Huggs, Renee

[laura.lapinski]

I agree with Livy m b. I was at a point, scared to death not knowing where it would go. It only lasted a few weeks, and now I know I am only an occasional, in the closet CD, who doesn't want any more than that.

[AmandaM]

For those who know they are, by the old definition, a transvestite, it is only expressing femininity. For those who know they are transsexual, it is becoming the woman they were meant to be. For those of us in between, it is purgatory in a way. Am I only a CD or really a woman? Personally, not knowing is purgatory, it causes me a lot of stress. If I knew it was a crossdressing thing and I liked being a man, heck, then I know where I stand. On the other side of the coin, if I knew I was a woman, then that would be easier too.

[jenniferj]

Kitty,

What a wonderful question! I also subscribe to the "1000 answers" response, as well as the idea that we are likely to be ineffective at analyzing ourselves.

Perhaps the best way to view this is that there is no single aspect to sexuality and gender. Clearly we can often see differences between sexual preference and gender identification; it probably goes much farther than that with many continuums over many traits.

Let me suggest a metaphor: Tennis. Many people like to play tennis and are very competitive. Many people pay money to take tennis lessons, and play tennis when they really should be doing other things. Many people buy expensive rackets and sneakers, and go away on tennis weekends. But very few people are full-time tennis players; they realize that there are other aspects to their life that are also important and just don't care enough about tennis to devote their whole life to it. However, they still being tennis players for a few hours at a time. That is probably where most crossdressers lie - they enjoy "being" feminine, but also realize that thay enjoy being men. They may fantasize about being women, they may obsess about women's clothes, but in the end the other traits dominate.

From what I have read, many transexuals have had a very hard time coming to terms with their gender identification, but they did - because they had to. It was so important to them that they endured incredible emotional and physical pain in order to be able to express themselves as they feel they are. Most crossdressers don't have this certainty, because they are more conflicted by the contradictory traits. And as such, they are likely to be very individual in nature.

Now there are a number of crossdressers who have made the decision to live dressed 24/7. How do we classify them? Do we have to? They have made a lifestyle choice that satisfies their needs. How many part-time crossdressers will become full-time? You can probably predict in individual cases whether this is likely to occur by giving a "stable" (i.e. post-pink fog) CD the chance to stay dressed indefinitely (vacation or whatever) and seeing how she feels when it comes time to change back. I expect that most are glad to be a guy again...

I really don't know about myself...

-jj

[Mirani]

I sometimes wistfully wish I had been born a woman - I would have loved to have been a mother and nurtured a child in a way only a mother can.

Then I realise that my view on womanhood is not realistic - it can be a living hell! PMT - no thanks! Childbirth pain - No thanks!

I like myself as a guy - I think that because I can fully express all of who I am (mostly whenever I want), then I am a better man - if that makes sense.

I dress from time to time, and love presenting as female from time to time. But, I dont want to BE a woman but I am honoured to be perceived and adressed and accepted as a woman.

OMG! in all honesty, sometimes I confuse myself - it doesnt make any sense at all.

[Bridget Fitzgerald]

somewhat for some

[Carin's Wife GG]

IMO. Certainly for me. I need constant reassurance that this will not happen. As the dressing continues I wonder where it will end. I don't know and that is scary.


Louise.

[Paula Wilder]

For me it's like the Jim Carey movie "The Mask". When I'm dressed in female clothing I want to be all woman, and strongly desire the full transition. Then, when I'm in male clothing I think about it fairly often, but don't have quite the same intensity of desire or emotion to become the "woman within." Maybe I'm more like the movie "Sybil" with multiple personalities, but I think it's fine either way -

[Khriss]

a.."rainbow of experiences ..or desires" ?
...catagories ... suck ! I want to feel free to be ME !
not pidgeonholed no doubt !
though I'm a member of a unique "Sisterhood" ..of Souls I very much love...and can relate to... I'm greatfull for that !!
xx"K"