Why Don't Crossdressers Make Progress?

[Joy Carter]

There was a thread recently, about what price have you paid for being a CD. I for one can tell you, that it only took a rumour from one, for me to be harassed by many till I retired. The price is heavy for many if us. Loss of family, friends and job. The one's who have found acceptance are rare in my observation.

And one more thing. Wasn't there some political action going on here in the states, involving GBLT groups, and were we not kicked to the curb, because we would have made it tougher for GBL's to get there initiative through ?

[Jamie S.]

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but I think some of it ironically has to do with what some of us consider to be pro-gay/transgender media. Movies like Hedwig and the Angry Inch and Precilla Queen of the Desert, and many others, while they can be good, paint the community as being weirdos or at the very lease mentally unbalanced. Some of us would just like to live what we consider to be our normal lives without the flamboyant stuff. It's understandable that someone seeing Agent Smith from the Matrix in full drag would think "wow, is this what being transgendered is?" and not accept the idea as willingly as seeing what most of us look like. Just normal people.

Personally, growing up in the 90's, the transgendered media I saw made me ashamed of the way I felt about myself. For a long time I tried to supress who I am. So while some may say "well at least the films address our cause", I ask myself at what price this exposure comes at.

We have made strides and will continue to do so, but as long as some films and shows keep painting us as over the top, flamboyant weirdos, we're going to still be looked upon as just that.

Anywho, it's 7 am and I'm running on empty from working on college finals stuff all night, so apologies for the rambling.

-jamie

[wishonastar]

and wish to stay that way.

The drag queens get the attention and that is not the image most CD'ers want.

Most CD'ers are heterosexual and many if not most are married, their wives do not know and if they did it would end the marriage, job and family!

So it is much more complicated than just CD'ing.

[jaina]

And one more thing. Wasn't there some political action going on here in the states, involving GBLT groups, and were we not kicked to the curb, because we would have made it tougher for GBL's to get there initiative through ?

Yes.

It really was a "win something" or "win nothing" scenerio.
The gay community has exended a hand to transgender and crossdressers over and over again, often only encountering hate and homophobia. The perfect cant be allowed to be the enemy of the good.

Remember this when you go to a gay club for the safe atmosphere on friday, but support anti-gay stances on sunday morning and vote against gay issues on tuesday. Transgendered and Crossdressers really need to start jumping in and fighting the fight. They can't sit it out and expect the gay community to get bloody and always hand them their rights on a platter.

If you assume that this forum is a valid cross section of TG/CDs, Most won't even stand up for equal rights in their own personal relationships nevermind the workplace or government agencies. So why should the gay community risk losing even one fight simply to carry such dead weight with them? If you want TG/Cd equal rights stop hiding and get them, don't blame the gay community for leaving you behind.

I present as a female in the real world every day and fight for my rights. Who can say the same thing?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[KeriB]

Unfortunately, when you have HRC throwing TG's under the bus to get a much watered-down national ENDA passed, along with Rep. Barney Frank and Sen. Ted Kennedy jumping ship, well it makes it all that much harder. Although these issues relate more to TG/TS folk, the TG language does relate to crossdressers and protections.

Sadly, most people will be much more sympathetic and understanding if you were gay versus being transgendered - simply the facts of where we are in the fight at this time.

[Seville]

...while a woman can wear a mans suit and still look very sexy and be accepted?

All the Olive Garden restaurants that I'm familiar with
have waitresses wearing mens white shirts, dark long ties
and pants...and nobody bats an eye...and yes, they still look
sexy and feminine. Oh Well...

[LoriTG]

Another thing is that when you are gay you usually don't change what you wear. You don't stick out like some transgendered people.

[Seville]

...no one is going to kill you are they, they are not going hack of your arms ore legs...

As soon as I read this, I thought about Matthew murdered on the
barb wire fence in Wyoming. Call me a coward, but I like living.

[CaptLex]

All the Olive Garden restaurants that I'm familiar with
have waitresses wearing mens white shirts, dark long ties
and pants...and nobody bats an eye...and yes, they still look
sexy and feminine. Oh Well...

That's why nobody bats an eye - 'cause they still look female and are still attractive to all those who are attracted to women. But if they didn't look "sexy and feminine", you can be sure they'd be harassed too.

[Ibuki_Warpetal]

But if they didn't look "sexy and feminine", you can be sure they'd be harassed too.

I disagree. A cute face is a cute face. A woman could wear a stack of bricks, and if she has as cute face nobody will care, though they might question her fashion sense.
What you are comparing is as if a man had to wear female attire to work, yet somehow managed to look handsome and masculine. People would stare for a bit but go about their business because they assume the man is probably psycholigically sound.

Whether a person is harrassed or not really depends on their demeanor and how they present themself and whether a second party feels threatened or mystified the person.

[shirley1]

because you are all in the closet - stuck in there wondering what the world will think of you - worrying about wives/girlfriends why did you get married if you thought you were tv ? i never did i just knew i would end up nicking my girlfriends stuff ! it amazes me just how many tvs think the answer is fight it then turn around and ask a stupid question like this ! why because you are too ruled by masculinity to ever be recognised as anything else ! gay people are proud of who they are !! most trannies are not youll never win - i will caus i have accepted myself finally - takes time to get there though !

[Nicki B]

Closeted CDs are not jumping out to say here I am - take it or leave it. For the most part, they are stay ing in the closet.

Isn't that primarily because of fear, whether or not that is reasonable?

I disagree. A cute face is a cute face. A woman could wear a stack of bricks, and if she has as cute face nobody will care, though they might question her fashion sense.
What you are comparing is as if a man had to wear female attire to work, yet somehow managed to look handsome and masculine. People would stare for a bit but go about their business because they assume the man is probably psycholigically sound.

Surely the difference is, these women are not trying to be men?

[Ibuki_Warpetal]

Surely the difference is, these women are not trying to be men?

That's exactly my point. People don't think that they are "trying to be something they are not", just because they are wearing a suit-like uniform.

People have a problem with people "being things they aren't supposed to be". Best example I can think of is "wiggers", blanket term for white kids who "act black". Pretty much everyone who doesn't appreciate urban culture associates being a "wigger" as neolithic. They actually get more hate than we do.

[Satrana]

I agree Ibuki

CDs wont progress so long as they are fixated on passing which at the end of the day is simply trying to deceive people that you are an actual GG. People don't like being deceived, they automatically assume the worst about the other person. It is a fun experience for us, but not for them. People feel scared and angry when they are uncertain of another person's intentions.

Passing may score maximum points on escapism, feeling the ultimate feminine feelings, and perfecting a project etc, but we lose sight on how a lay-person is going to interpret our behavior. Even if they are liberal and open-minded, they will still perceive us to be weird and different because this is not normal human behavior to deceive to this degree.

[CaptLex]

I disagree. A cute face is a cute face. A woman could wear a stack of bricks, and if she has as cute face nobody will care, though they might question her fashion sense.

I was talking about females or female-bodied people who don't dress cute and sexy (cute face notwithstanding), and are harassed either mildly by friends, family and peers, or more violently by people who feel threatened (as you mentioned) because they want them to dress or present more feminine.

There are plenty of cute-as-a-button transguys and butch lesbians who go through incessant teasing and harassment because they won't just give in and please their parents, for example, because they won't wear a skirt or grow out their hair or wear makeup.

Whether a person is harrassed or not really depends on their demeanor and how they present themself and whether a second party feels threatened or mystified the person.

The demeanor doesn't guarantee anything, but I agree that it will happen if someone feels threatened (and/or revulsed).

[JoAnnDallas]

Joy Carter.........sound like you have a perfect case of "Sexual discrimination" that you could have brought against you company. Here in Dallas, TX the city passed anti-discrimination law that protect T-Girls in the work place and in public. If it were to happen to me, I would walk into the HR department and flat them them that I was going to file suit about it. I would see a scramble to prevent me from filing the suit. Most companies will bend over backwards not to be suied for "Sexual Harrasment" even if the company, ciry, or state does not cover T-Girls. Harrasment is illegal regaurdless of the content.

[kristine239]

I have read all of the posts in this thread and I think some of you may not be aware of whats going on.

The main reason is in my IMHO, you are not out in the greater community. Most of you need to attend an active group in your area, but especially attend many of the conferences such as Southern Comfort, Be All, IFGE and more. You will find that many organizations are active in the human rights movement. The progress that you have seen has been the result of a few and needs to be continued by the "many." When was the last time you talked to a legislater concerning your rights and beliefs? Probably never! When was the last time you attended a conference to find out how you can make a difference? Many voices DO create change and you all need to be heard.

So much for my "soap box" for today. The word is change is created by the many, not just a few. :2c:

[JoAnnDallas]

kristine239.....Your so right. Reading about the Dallas Law, I found it took almost all the TG groups together here in Dallas to get the Mayor to agree to add protection for the TG. In fact it took almost to the dealine to get the law changed to add the protection for TG people.
My Tri-Ess chapter does out-reach. I hope to be able to help in this. They have held sminars for local police and Fire Departments, Colleges, and even High Schools. They even attended the Pride March and had a booth at the Pride Fest last year.

[Jamie001]

The problem is that most CDs cower in the closet. If you don't acknowledge and accept yourself, then how can you expect other folks to acknowledge and accept you. If you remain closeted, this will never change and progress will never be made.

I have read all of the posts in this thread and I think some of you may not be aware of whats going on.

The main reason is in my IMHO, you are not out in the greater community. Most of you need to attend an active group in your area, but especially attend many of the conferences such as Southern Comfort, Be All, IFGE and more. You will find that many organizations are active in the human rights movement. The progress that you have seen has been the result of a few and needs to be continued by the "many." When was the last time you talked to a legislater concerning your rights and beliefs? Probably never! When was the last time you attended a conference to find out how you can make a difference? Many voices DO create change and you all need to be heard.

So much for my "soap box" for today. The word is change is created by the many, not just a few. :2c:

[Sallee]

that is your feeling that you and only you have to overcome it. It is our own embarrassment to deal with. That is not to say that alot of us don't have it and we have to over come it too. But mostly it is an individual thing

For the most part I think we have made some progress at least for the going out and about CD and TS people do get noticed but generally folks don't care. Now that maybe a little different in an office setting where some one may be transitioning Being a TS is a hard to hide and it may result in discrimination. People do have a hard time with it on a personal level. It is kind of like a very flaming gay man. If you are in peoples faces they will be offended.

[MsJoann]

It's true that the general public is tolerant of gay people. They are accepted in our society due to the great strides whch were made regarding gay rights and also their presence in the media and politics.
I don't think there is anyone these days who don't know what the rainbow colors represent.
However, I still cringe when I see how the media represents us. We are presented to be a two-legged freak show..and why is it that the cameras always seem to capture a less desirable looking crossdresser? (usually cop shows).
The mentality of most is still stuck in an old mindset... "John by day, Janet by night". How many times have you seen that one on television?
It may not be ignorance but I think it is a lack of understanding and a need for education.
There are still many, many people who despise gays and transgender people. I think understanding will be prevalent with time, maybe not within our lives.
I am delighted though when I do see us in the media in a positive light. I set my own personal strides each day by wearing what I want to wear...even a little makeup! It's my life!

[shirley1]

maybe where you live plays a part i dont know - i live in england and all i can go on is the fact i didnt get any probs being out en femme the other day cant wait for the next time - maybe i am one of the lucky ones - i dont think i could be read - so if you look the part you know you are not doing anything to help the cause of transgendered people - still i dont care i just want to do what i want to do - my aim has always been to see if i can pass as a genetic female - and i'll find out a lot more form now on as i start to go out more - but seroiusly the only way cders will make steps forward to becoming accepted in everyday life is to just go out there and do it !! women will love it a guy thats in touch with his feminine side, have more in common with ggs it stands to reason to me - gay people were in the closet once but i guess the difference is they knew what they wanted - same as women did with equal rights as men - do cders know what they want ? thats whats bothering me !!

[Melinda G]

Hmmm. After reading all the posts, I'm left wondering what exactly are we seeking? You want to dress up and go out. Do it. Nothing is going to happen to you, if you use a little common sense. If you go out late at night in a bad area, you might get beat up and robbed. But you would probably get beat up and robbed dressed as a guy, in the same area, late at night.
If somebody "makes you", so what. Assault is still a crime, no matter what you are wearing. If somebody makes you, you might hear a few snickers or remarks, but not likely. But even gays put up with that. It's not a perfect world, and never will be.
In most cases, if you look reasonably passable, and conduct yourself appropriately, you will have no problems. If you can't stand an occasional stare, I guess you better stay home. No laws are ever going to eliminate that.

[michelle64]

Hmmm. After reading all the posts, I'm left wondering what exactly are we seeking? You want to dress up and go out. Do it. Nothing is going to happen to you, if you use a little common sense. If you go out late at night in a bad area, you might get beat up and robbed. But you would probably get beat up and robbed dressed as a guy, in the same area, late at night.
If somebody "makes you", so what. Assault is still a crime, no matter what you are wearing. If somebody makes you, you might hear a few snickers or remarks, but not likely. But even gays put up with that. It's not a perfect world, and never will be.
In most cases, if you look reasonably passable, and conduct yourself appropriately, you will have no problems. If you can't stand an occasional stare, I guess you better stay home. No laws are ever going to eliminate that.

i agree...learn how to dress and act and you will not have a problem...going into gay bars in the seedy parts of the city will catch up with you..its not that your dressed..its the fact your in a bad part of town and just left a gay bar....i will withhold any replies to any same sex activities..even though i have dressed for years my views on that lifestyle are not favorable.

[vivianann]

We need to just get dressed and get out in public, however we need to dress in a presentable manner, age and size appropriate, since I have started dressing in public I have had positive experiences, and peaple seem to be curious, and have questions of why we dress in womens clothing. Yes there are some jerks out there, who cares, I have run into a couple of jerks, and I am not afraid to kick their ass if needs be. I know it is difficult for most of us to announce we like to wear dresses, but we need to get public exposure, and assert our rights to wear womens clohing, and try not looking like freaks.
We need to assert our rights to wear womens clothing, we have rights to wear what we want as long as we show descency, we dont need any special protection, we just need to come out of the closet.