Still Living in the Dark Ages

[CaptLex]

I find it quite humorous Lex that the very ones who should be following the law to the letter are often the first ones to suggest breaking it. Typical.

I thought the same thing - crazy, huh? :blink:

Sorry I wasn't clear before: "the surgery" is phalloplasty, in the case of FtMs (vaginoplasty in the case of MtFs). It doesn't matter to them that it's not possible for most of us guys. The other procedures (top surgery, etc.), I was told, are not enough.

[Tristan]

I thought the same thing - crazy, huh? :blink:

Sorry I wasn't clear before: "the surgery" is phalloplasty, in the case of FtMs (vaginoplasty in the case of MtFs). It doesn't matter to them that it's not possible for most of us guys. The other procedures (top surgery, etc.), I was told, are not enough.

Wow, really? That does suck. Which is a bit weird, because I can get a court order to change my gender on my birth certificate I think without the bottom surgery. I wonder how they can deny it then... dunno... what a strange deal...

[CaptLex]

Wow, really? That does suck. Which is a bit weird, because I can get a court order to change my gender on my birth certificate I think without the bottom surgery. I wonder how they can deny it then... dunno... what a strange deal...

But things like birth certificates and driver's licences are decided state-to-state (or sometimes by counties) - they don't have to adhere to the federal policy.

On another note, Tristan just reminded me . . . today is my tranniversary. I started taking T two years ago today . . . drinks on the house (or the ship). :drink:

[KrazyKat]

:drink:Cheers on your 2nd T-versary!!

Wow, how time flies, well, for me anyway!!

Can't believe the fed worker suggesting that, wow, could lose their job, must've really liked you!!

Hugs, so sorry, how do we change the rules? Sign me up, I'll help!!:D

[CaptLex]

:drink:Cheers on your 2nd T-versary!!

Wow, how time flies, well, for me anyway!!

Yes, time flies when you're having rum. :winkp:

Can't believe the fed worker suggesting that, wow, could lose their job, must've really liked you!!

Hugs, so sorry, how do we change the rules? Sign me up, I'll help!!:D

I know you can kick ass, so I'd always want you in the fight.

Well, Tristan, some places (like NYC) still won't allow birth certificate changes, and it's my opinion that it's because this will lead to legalizing gay marriages (or at least civil unions) here. :rolleyes:

It's really confusing (and frustrating) that things are not universal in our country, so lots of things depend on where you live. At least NY state sees me as a boy.

[ZenFrost]

Happy tranniversary!

But what they heck do they mean "the operation," there's about a dozen very expensive ones and the results are not all that great... I think the U.S. policy on that seriously needs to get amended on that. :Angry3:

[CaptLex]

Happy tranniversary!

Thanks, dude!

But what they heck do they mean "the operation," there's about a dozen very expensive ones and the results are not all that great... I think the U.S. policy on that seriously needs to get amended on that. :Angry3:

I tried telling them that, but it fell on deaf ears. :rolleyes:

[Tristan]

But things like birth certificates and driver's licences are decided state-to-state (or sometimes by counties) - they don't have to adhere to the federal policy.

On another note, Tristan just reminded me . . . today is my tranniversary. I started taking T two years ago today . . . drinks on the house (or the ship). :drink:

Well NJ requires SRS to get a gender change -- not sure how they define srs though for that. But still weird that I could get a birth certificate that says I'm male.... so you'd think if I waited till I had that and applied for one how could they not go by it... my birth certificate would say male lmao but yeah gov't's messed up. It all comes down to a fear I think. That they need to know whats under our pants even if it's none of their business.

[sandra-leigh]

Sorry I wasn't clear before: "the surgery" is phalloplasty, in the case of FtMs (vaginoplasty in the case of MtFs). It doesn't matter to them that it's not possible for most of us guys.

For my education, could someone briefly summarize the physical limitations on phalloplasty that make it "not possible" ? I know that in general any kind of major surgery is counter-indicated for various health reasons (e.g., you'd avoid it for hemophiliacs, or for people likely to react badly to anesthesia), but it sounds to me as if you might be implying something else, such as "not enough tissue for success" ?

I in no way mean to imply that anyone should "have to" have such surgery to be considered to have changed their gender; but the Captain seems to be implying that many physically cannot get it done if if they wanted to, and I am presently unaware of the reasons for that?

[ZenFrost]

For my education, could someone briefly summarize the physical limitations on phalloplasty that make it "not possible" ? I know that in general any kind of major surgery is counter-indicated for various health reasons (e.g., you'd avoid it for hemophiliacs, or for people likely to react badly to anesthesia), but it sounds to me as if you might be implying something else, such as "not enough tissue for success" ?

I in no way mean to imply that anyone should "have to" have such surgery to be considered to have changed their gender; but the Captain seems to be implying that many physically cannot get it done if if they wanted to, and I am presently unaware of the reasons for that?

1. There are many operations involved.

2. They cost more than many can afford.

3. 'Success' is relative, the results don't work properly so many avoid it altogether because often a prosthetic is better for many guys.

4. Also, for some it is physiologically not possible to have a successful phalloplasty, such as for reasons you mentioned.

The cost is the big one, $150k is a bit more than most call affordable, especially since insurance does not cover it 99% of the time.

[Cai]

For my education, could someone briefly summarize the physical limitations on phalloplasty that make it "not possible" ? I know that in general any kind of major surgery is counter-indicated for various health reasons (e.g., you'd avoid it for hemophiliacs, or for people likely to react badly to anesthesia), but it sounds to me as if you might be implying something else, such as "not enough tissue for success" ?

I in no way mean to imply that anyone should "have to" have such surgery to be considered to have changed their gender; but the Captain seems to be implying that many physically cannot get it done if if they wanted to, and I am presently unaware of the reasons for that?

Simple version: Because it's very, very expensive, and the results are not (usually) functional or all that aesthetically pleasing. Plus there's extensive scarring on the abdomen and forearm (where the tissue is taken from), and the results take multiple revisions to get correct.

[C.J.]

Man, sorry to hear about this situation Lex. This government worker needs a serious slap.

- C.J.

[Emily Ann Brown]

Keep in mind that I'm blond here, but is it possible that they are afraid to change the law for transmen fearing us girls will then be able to be "women" without a surgery that is more successful?????


Emily Ann

[CaptLex]

Keep in mind that I'm blond here, but is it possible that they are afraid to change the law for transmen fearing us girls will then be able to be "women" without a surgery that is more successful?????

Emily Ann

I'm not sure what you mean, Emily, but I don't give the gov't that much credit. I don't think they're thinking at all . . . I believe they're just not bothering to learn the facts and couldn't care less how this affects us.

[mister-mason]

For my education, could someone briefly summarize the physical limitations on phalloplasty that make it "not possible" ? I know that in general any kind of major surgery is counter-indicated for various health reasons (e.g., you'd avoid it for hemophiliacs, or for people likely to react badly to anesthesia), but it sounds to me as if you might be implying something else, such as "not enough tissue for success" ?

What everyone else said on this subject, and then I'll add that there IS another surgery, that some states accept, that some transmen are lucky enough to be able to use, that DOES give a completely satisfactory, realistic-looking, functioning result: metoidoplasty. However, my state (Illinois) does not consider it to be 'a sex-change operation,' and neither do the feds.

[SIZE="1"][Icky medical details: if you're lucky enough that testosterone hypertrophies your clitoris to 2-3 inches long, you can have a (much more minor than phalloplasty) operation to cut loose a few ligaments on the inside and rotate out the 'hidden' erectile tissue at its root, to give the whole thing a more phallus-like appearance. However, even this is often more expensive than MtF GRS surgeries -- if an order of magnitude cheaper than phalloplasty, and much more useful in its outcome.][/SIZE]

[waspookie6]

I must fit into some strange loop-hole, could be from being adopted at birth? The state here will allow me to change my name and gender just by petitioning the Family Court, appearing before a judge to explain why I want a name change. No "red" stamped papers needed

Maybe Family Court instead of any other entity?????

We are working on getting Blue Cross to change this on our policy so they will cover Karen's mammograms, etc. They keep telling us they are checking with the state legal dept, which means they are trying to figure out how to screw us out of coverage, I'm thinking.

I keep tellin' ya Kat...we all need to take another vacation!!! :D

This one slipped through the cracks, I'm expecting it to catch up with us at any time, and then we can go to the Supreme Court, you think?!

LCF comes to mind. If anyone has fought to get laws changed regarding sex and gender in front of the supreme court - he and his attorney know every tile on the floor by heart.
hmmmmmm..........

[Felix]

I find this most disconcerting Lex I hope you can find a way round it I really do xx Felix