Are we the same?

[Hali]

Its nice to have u on this forum, its just that i noticed as if u r abit frustrated because of the kind or responses u get from this forum thats wy i send u that long possibly boring post. I think any "sensible" CD must have tried getting rid of CDing just like u did. If i can get a pill that can "cure" my Cding i will take it right now no hesitation.

I dont enjoy CDing here in my country there are no joints for CDs that i know of, so mixing with other CDs has nt been possible, and going out dressed to have fun is like risking my life so wy should i encourage CDing or like CDing, CDing to me is an excess baggage, but the way u insinuate is as if most of the pple on this forum are happy to be CDs or are nt doin enough to rid themselves of CDing but like u said it i should enjoy my "soft day" no i dont have any soft day just because i accept CDing, accepting CDing doesnt mean having a "soft day" to accept CDing is harder than fighting it in my own opinion, cos i use to look down on anything not masculine before/wen i was young this days i know better. Tek care.

[MissConstrued]

I should be able to post any thought I feel as long as others in the PROS AND CONS of crossdressing

And haven't you been doing exactly that? Your threads have generated quite a bit of discussion. Do you expect everyone to agree with you?

You know who's responsible for your happiness? You are. No one else. Not me, not the other members, not the moderators, the government, your family, your friends, your neighbors. YOU. You decide whether you want to be a well-adjusted member of society, or wear sackcloth and ashes.

I don't know what you want, but my guess is that you want to wallow in misery, and spread it around a bit. Misery loves company. And you're upset because most of us don't want to be miserable.

You won't accept it when we tell you there's nothing wrong with you. Fine. You're a hopeless bundle of self-pity, and no damn fun to be around. Not to mention a sick pervert. That what you want? We can up the guilt a notch -- you seem to enjoy it.

[curse within]

And haven't you been doing exactly that? Your threads have generated quite a bit of discussion. Do you expect everyone to agree with you?

You know who's responsible for your happiness? You are. No one else. Not me, not the other members, not the moderators, the government, your family, your friends, your neighbors. YOU. You decide whether you want to be a well-adjusted member of society, or wear sackcloth and ashes.

I don't know what you want, but my guess is that you want to wallow in misery, and spread it around a bit. Misery loves company. And you're upset because most of us don't want to be miserable.

You won't accept it when we tell you there's nothing wrong with you. Fine. You're a hopeless bundle of self-pity, and no damn fun to be around. Not to mention a sick pervert. That what you want? We can up the guilt a notch -- you seem to enjoy it.

Yet another point proved thanks and have a nice day..I am not upset BTW so if that's how you see me you are wrong. I am happy go lucky and fun to be around big differance when you think about others instead of youselfs wouldn't you agree?

[JoAnne Wheeler]

We are part of the very large spectrum known as TRANSGENDERED
JoAnne Wheeler

[Veronica27]

Hi CW

I understand what you are trying to say. This desire can be a terrible burden, and it is quite common to wish it would go away. While it is true, most people here have come to a level of acceptance as their way of dealing with the problem, and are seeking the support of others to help them in this journey, that is not always the answer for everyone. As a youth, the sexual aspect of crossdressing was very strong for me, not as a reason to initiate the activity, but as a consequence of doing it. As a result, every time I dressed, I hated myself afterward, and could not wait to get the damn clothing off. I always vowed that that would be the last time. As we all know, it wasn't the end of it, and I would repeat the same scenario. My problem was that my life was very lonely at that time as I was somewhat isolated, and I spent countless hours at home alone. Giving in to the urges became inevitable, even though I later hated it and myself for doing it.

By the time I had reached adulthood, I had pretty much stopped dressing. There were a few instances when I gave into the urges when I was under a lot of stress for one reason or another, but I often went years on end without crossdressing. The sexual aspects had completely disappeared by then. I still thought about crossdressing, but more from the point of view of trying to understand why I had felt these urges, than from wanting to give in to the desire. So what happened? My wife happened to ask me one day if I had ever done anything like this, and I was honest with her. The next thing I knew, she had purchased some things for me (everything I owned had been purged), and told me I should relax and dress up around the house if I felt like it, as long as the kids did not see or know. I was almost 50 at the time. I made a conscious decision to begin dressing again, partly because of her attitude toward it. I had to go through the whole acceptance ritual in order to begin enjoying what she suggested. The point I am making here, is that I think it is entirely possible to stop, if you are determined to do that. There are a lot of things we can do to keep our mind away from dressing, such as keeping busy on other hobbies and interests, and "changing the subject", whenever our brain happens to go there, by having other subjects handy that you like to think about. Determination, self-discipline and a firm belief in what you are doing and the reasons why are the keys whether you are trying to go cold turkey, or are seeking counselling.

As far as the transgender thing is concerned, I happen to agree with you. I started a thread a few weeks ago, about the origins of that term and its meaning. The majority of people in the community, and on this forum, want some common terminology that applies to everyone, since the wide disparity among everybody can be confusing to outsiders. They have settled on this term, but I think it is the wrong term to use as it conveys a certain message that does not apply to everyone of us, and can actually lead to difficulties with family and friends because of the misunderstandings. My thread was taken over by the transgender adherants, and quickly went totally off topic as attacks were made against the individual who coined that term and their organization, and the issue of transgender rights was raised. I do not wish to open up that can of worms again. My main point was that the term was originally coined to describe people who had decided to go full time, and live as a woman, without necessarily having SRS. Even if we broaden the definition to be more inclusive, it still describes who we are rather than what we do. My crossdressing is not to the extent that I want to be branded by a term that implies that I am something other than your average male. Gender is between the ears, and the fact that we do anything that is normally considered a female activity or form of expression does not necessarily mean that our gender is anything other than its original male self. We can watch a "chick flick", take up sewing or knitting and even cross-dress without it implying that we are something other than male. Others will argue this, and that is their right. It is also my right to feel the way I do. A few years ago, there was a stupid attempt to make the point that "real men don't eat quich". Someone (I can't remember who) finally countered with the expression "real men eat what they damn well feel like"

To Batty:

If you read this, please do not turn this thread into anything other than what CW is talking about. I read your contributions to the moderator's thread about voting in the wrong forums and felt that you raised some excellent points about possible "ability" reasons for this happening. You did not attack anyone and were quite civil. We all have our opinions about various issues, and everyone's opinion should be respected, as you yourself stated earlier in this thread. I disagree with you that a metrosexual is transgendered as his appearance has nothing to do with his state of mind. He is merely breaking society's silly rules about what a man should and should not do. The same applies to many crossdressers. The key to transgender is whether you are crossing the divide between the genders in your own mind. You do not need to be crossdressed in order for this to happen. That is my opinion; I respect yours.

Veronica

[Katrina red nails]

i am a heterosexual male who likes to wear woman's clothing. I am me, regardless of whether i am dressed in drab or en-femme. Were it considered "normal" for men to wear clothing of either gender (as it currently is for women), i would not be "classified" as a cder.
Society at present labels me as a cder.
I am definitely not transgendered.

ditto

[Tracii G]

I think self-pity is CW main problem.JMO
The fact he batters around the same point over and over no matter what anyone says.He seems to be the type that loves to argue for what ever reason.The type that wants you to feel bad just because they do.
Its sad that he hasn't the will power to shut "her" off for a period of time.Not saying anyone can shut if off permanatly.Im sure there have been many that have.
Point being if he hates it so much have the guts to face "her" and make her leave.Its HIS choice.

[Ressie]

I've never heard of some of these terms like metrosexual. It looks like more descriptive words are being coined creating yet more categories. Even "transgendered" is a relatively new word that can only be understood by those interested enough to look it up.

But from what I've been seeing, no two gender benders are the same. There are similarities, but we are more like snowflakes than commodities. It's nice to fit things into categories for some reason. I guess it makes people feel that they understand something better.

So we shouldn't try to shape each other into our own idea of what a crossdresser is IMO. Crossdressers simply wear one or more articles of clothing of the opposite sex from time to time, whether that pattern is once a day, all day or once every 5 years.

[curse within]

I think self-pity is CW main problem.JMO
The fact he batters around the same point over and over no matter what anyone says.He seems to be the type that loves to argue for what ever reason.The type that wants you to feel bad just because they do.
Its sad that he hasn't the will power to shut "her" off for a period of time.Not saying anyone can shut if off permanatly.Im sure there have been many that have.
Point being if he hates it so much have the guts to face "her" and make her leave.Its HIS choice.

I think that not only are you making this a personal attack against me your way off base and way out of line.. Why are you making this a crusade to prove me right?

[Tamera]

Transgender is the Community as a whole.

The rest is a like a Family Tree that branches off of that.

For instance that is why we are part of the LGBT Community.

Hugs,
Tamera

[Kelly DeWinter]

Batty

Nice point, All viewpoints are allways welcome. Curse Within certainly has a lot of soul searching going on within himself. It's obvious that there are some serious guilt issues, denial issues, and identity issues being delt with. Whatever his outcome, the longer he struggles alone without some serious counseling or mentoring, the more we will hear the same from him. There are some awesome books I reccomended to him, and I hope one day to hear him discuss some of the contents of those books. A person identity is key to how you see yourself and how other see you. Without a strong sense of self you loose esteem and it become a constant spiral between feeling bad and feeling good.

As much as I think Curse within is wrong and harming himself by fighting CDing etc I do agree that this place should include viewpoints i think are wrong.

[Rachaelb64]

CDing has cost me alot.

I've suffered depression, most of my life, It was one of the main factors in the break down of my marriage of 15yrs. I tried to stop and did for about 2yrs before I had a break down.

I've travelled a long rough and hard road to were I am today.

About 4 years ago I sort solace is Buddism, I did not take it up, but find an answer for myself. To be one with myself I must balance myself. Yin and Yan as one. Now you might think its all BS, but hey it worked for me and since acceptting my otherself I haven't had a bout of depression in 4 years, I like mysef better and I'm happier.

The majority of us had come to point in various ways, accepted what we are and moved on with our lives.

Now, CW, stop whining, accept you are a CDer, stop hating yourself, cus whatever you say you do. So you dont want to dress, then find a way of dealing with that. Get a hobby that takes up must of your spare time, see the world or pray to your god. If you think CDing is an addiction then you need to replace it with something else


You call it an addiction, then break it.

Personally I think its something deeper, but that my own opinion.

Please stop trying to convert the rest of us and stop labeling us, cus personally I hate labels. Face the fact most of us are happy to be who we are.

You hate being a crossdresser, fine. But stop dumping your guilt on the rest of us. You sound like a missionary trying to convert pagans

I understand that there others who dislike being a crossdresser. But hey there are worse things in life you could be.

Turn your hate into something positive, you never know you might find you own personal answer.

And there the crux, finding your own personal answer.

[curse within]

CDing has cost me alot.

I've suffered depression, most of my life, It was one of the main factors in the break down of my marriage of 15yrs. I tried to stop and did for about 2yrs before I had a break down.

I've travelled a long rough and hard road to were I am today.

About 4 years ago I sort solace is Buddism, I did not take it up, but find an answer for myself. To be one with myself I must balance myself. Yin and Yan as one. Now you might think its all BS, but hey it worked for me and since acceptting my otherself I haven't had a bout of depression in 4 years, I like mysef better and I'm happier.

The majority of us had come to point in various ways, accepted what we are and moved on with our lives.

Now, CW, stop whining, accept you are a CDer, stop hating yourself, cus whatever you say you do. So you dont want to dress, then find a way of dealing with that. Get a hobby that takes up must of your spare time, see the world or pray to your god. If you think CDing is an addiction then you need to replace it with something else


You call it an addiction, then break it.

Personally I think its something deeper, but that my own opinion.

Please stop trying to convert the rest of us and stop labeling us, cus personally I hate labels. Face the fact most of us are happy to be who we are.

You hate being a crossdresser, fine. But stop dumping your guilt on the rest of us. You sound like a missionary trying to convert pagans

I understand that there others who dislike being a crossdresser. But hey there are worse things in life you could be.

Turn your hate into something positive, you never know you might find you own personal answer.

And there the crux, finding your own personal answer.

Well well well.. First off Rachael ...Whos whineing?? May want to read read your own post..Second if you feel that way with me and my threads why comment? I don't see anyone twisting your arm to read them thank you very much


Have a great night..

C.W.

Because I can feel the way I feel that's why!!! So there

[Tracii G]

CW you are doing exactly what you say we are doing.
I'm not attacking you personaly you just love to argue thats you're nature.I wouldn't be suprised if you work in the legal profession.
You will never be satisfied if you don't find BALANCE.
You are the reason you are having problems don't blame it on anyone else.
I hope for you family's sake you can sort this out.

[curse within]

Tracii,

Then it must be a misunderstanding huh?....The name of the thread says are we the same ??? Not is curse and this forum...sometimes we all get in gulped into our own visions we refuse to allow any others to to focus upon thiers . If people would stick with the topic and there has been some ,,then the mud slinging would stop..

Everyone has a right to an opinion including you, but just how far are you willing to take it? Do you really think everyone is the same? Do you really think that people just because they do not care to accept the burden that crossdressing brings is a awfull thing? I mean if you do think about it ..!! Because and not including myself mind you, people have real issues with it!!..

That was all I was trying to get accross with out this whole thing being pointed back to me...THATS WHY I SAY THANKS FOR MAKING MY POINT..


I don't know you I don't hate you and what you do in your life is your business, I would hope if anything being on here would build a strong friendship. Just understand there are real people you folks talk to and they are feeling alone , left behind and confussed about these issues in hand... Don't be so gratefull to spill out crossdressing is the next best thing compared to sliced bread.. Thats all..gezzzzzz....think I was in a straight jacket trying to build my world according to curse..Im sorry no offence,, I am done with this thread as well ,post all you want!!! cya..

[Tracii G]

CW I don't hate anyone and never will.
Hate I removed from my vocabulay.
This thread has gone far enough and gotten nowhere.
I still repsct your opinions.

[curse within]

Tracii,

Thanks as I respect yours....The point will always be mute however until a understanding is met...I am willing to place myself out there to make a point well deserved to take notice that we are all different and some people require different needs ...

Thats all...

[Kelly DeWinter]

Curse,

This fourm is the probably the best place to help yourself, Your opinion is valued as much as anyone elses. The thing about topical discussions and debates is that if you make a statement like "Are we the same ?", be prepared to defend your statements. It is just part of of what Aristotol called the 'the dialetic'. I'ts not a matter of wether anyone is rightor wrong. Continue to take part of the discussions, some times you will get your point across, sometimes you won't. we of the TG/CD community have the unique oppertunity of defining ourselves,rather then having lables thrust upon us.
Kelly

[Kelly DeWinter]

[quote=Rachaelb64;1574211]CDing has cost me alot.

I've suffered depression, most of my life, It was one of the main factors in the break down of my marriage of 15yrs. I tried to stop and did for about 2yrs before I had a break down.

I've travelled a long rough and hard road to were I am today.

About 4 years ago I sort solace is Buddism, I did not take it up, but find an answer for myself. To be one with myself I must balance myself. Yin and Yan as one. Now you might think its all BS, but hey it worked for me and since acceptting my otherself I haven't had a bout of depression in 4 years, I like mysef better and I'm happier."/quote]


Rachael,

It sounds like we have been down an very similar road, My solace from dression came when I embraced the whole person of who I am, and understood, that my faith included a God who loved the whole person not just a part.

Kelly

PS I'm NOT tryig to turn this into a religious thread, just making a comment on post here

[curse within]

Kelly..

You are very much so correct.....That is the purpose of doing such acts so sometimes we can step out of the box we build around us...Think about it re read everything I stated...I can agree with you and also understand you ,,why should it be so hard to also look at US as US?..Do you not want this part of US exposed?? Am I breaking years of fighting to regain any kind of respect??

No I am merley suggesting that we US need to understand all forms of Crossdressing ..Liking it or not MTF ..FTM... we all have issues family life ,friends work enviroments ..Things that are more important that little arguements over ones opinion and feelings of being a Crossdresser..


I have left the soap box for the next contender..


Thanks Kelly your opinion is valued..

[Kelly DeWinter]

Kelly..

You are very much so correct.....That is the purpose of doing such acts so sometimes we can step out of the box we build around us...Think about it re read everything I stated...I can agree with you and also understand you ,,why should it be so hard to also look at US as US?..Do you not want this part of US exposed?? Am I breaking years of fighting to regain any kind of respect??

No I am merley suggesting that we US need to understand all forms of Crossdressing ..Liking it or not MTF ..FTM... we all have issues family life ,friends work enviroments ..Things that are more important that little arguements over ones opinion and feelings of being a Crossdresser..


I have left the soap box for the next contender..


Thanks Kelly your opinion is valued..

Curse,

Sometimes it's hard to get ones point accross. In your last post, I have to admit, I think I only understand 10% of what you posted, even after rereadng your other posts. I and many others have been where you are today upset,trying to reject as you imply with your screen name the "Curse Within". Most who post here are t peace with themselves, and quite frankly you are probably in extream minority in how you feel about the issue if TG/CD MTF FTM. Expect a little bit of heat as people challenge you to defend your opinion.

Kelly

[Alice Torn]

CW, To me it sounds like you mean there are two different, yet partly similar types- the ones who hate their pull to cd, and want to cut way down or quit, replaceing it, and those who have never fought it . or fought it some, then live with it... Personally, I have had to face all of my deep painful issues, over the past 24 years, and I menan multiple emotional problem, mother issues, father issues, older brothers issues, older siaster issues, deep depression, racial issues, extreme political issues, being a virgin for life, no girlfriend, strict church issues. I was a bedwetter, and HATED IT!!! My older twin brothers would blast me with insults, and names, everytime i wet my bed. I wet the bed through high school, too, and my self-image, was rock bottom. Finally, at age 21, I decided to join the Air Force, knowing full well, if it happened in boot camp, it would be a horrible experience, that nightmares are made of!! Before i joined, my bedqwetting had been less often, but still happened occasionally. I prayed, and prayed to God, above, to heal me of it, not to let me pee the boot camp rack!!! I didn't want to go to sleep the first night! I hated a lifetime of bedwetting, which few could understand, at 21! Well, between just plain fear, and prayer, I never wet the bed again! The difference between my bedwetting, and cding, is that I did the bedwetting while asleep. Cding , I have done , giving in to that urge, or compulsion. When I started dressing up wig, to heels, several years ago, I could seldom say "no" to it. It was taking over my life. I dressed up in a sexy dress, dark hose, high heels, and a short, poor fitting wig, and was out 12 hours, being read all over, being a spectacle!! Now, unlike then, I have my own apartment, but, don't seem to have much desire to dress! I don't feel the strong pull, anymore. I would take a pill, if it would kill all desire, to cd, but, since there isn't, I accept it, but, I am not letting Lucille take over my life. I have too many financial, emotional, mental, spiritual, physical, family issues, pet issues, and social issues, that are crucial, to let Lucille take over, and sink me. I am sure most all of you have had many issues, and crises to deal with, and some far more trying than mine. There is an old proverb, "Each heart knows its own grief, and none can share its joy." Thanks for letting me share.

[curse within]

CW, To me it sounds like you mean there are two different, yet partly similar types- the ones who hate their pull to cd, and want to cut way down or quit, replaceing it, and those who have never fought it . or fought it some, then live with it... Personally, I have had to face all of my deep painful issues, over the past 24 years, and I menan multiple emotional problem, mother issues, father issues, older brothers issues, older siaster issues, deep depression, racial issues, extreme political issues, being a virgin for life, no girlfriend, strict church issues. I was a bedwetter, and HATED IT!!! My older twin brothers would blast me with insults, and names, everytime i wet my bed. I wet the bed through high school, too, and my self-image, was rock bottom. Finally, at age 21, I decided to join the Air Force, knowing full well, if it happened in boot camp, it would be a horrible experience, that nightmares are made of!! Before i joined, my bedqwetting had been less often, but still happened occasionally. I prayed, and prayed to God, above, to heal me of it, not to let me pee the boot camp rack!!! I didn't want to go to sleep the first night! I hated a lifetime of bedwetting, which few could understand, at 21! Well, between just plain fear, and prayer, I never wet the bed again! The difference between my bedwetting, and cding, is that I did the bedwetting while asleep. Cding , I have done , giving in to that urge, or compulsion. When I started dressing up wig, to heels, several years ago, I could seldom say "no" to it. It was taking over my life. I dressed up in a sexy dress, dark hose, high heels, and a short, poor fitting wig, and was out 12 hours, being read all over, being a spectacle!! Now, unlike then, I have my own apartment, but, don't seem to have much desire to dress! I don't feel the strong pull, anymore. I would take a pill, if it would kill all desire, to cd, but, since there isn't, I accept it, but, I am not letting Lucille take over my life. I have too many financial, emotional, mental, spiritual, physical, family issues, pet issues, and social issues, that are crucial, to let Lucille take over, and sink me. I am sure most all of you have had many issues, and crises to deal with, and some far more trying than mine. There is an old proverb, "Each heart knows its own grief, and none can share its joy." Thanks for letting me share.

Lucille,

If I had the pill to give I would trust me....I really feel your pain as you remind me of a dear parted friend of mine..Life is too short to live unhappy therefore I judge no one .. I have not only been blessed with CDing..(ha) But being brutaly honest also.. I am happy the good Lord looks over us in time of our needs but I am sure when it comes down to being the caring honest respectful person you seem to be...You earned it there where no favors done...Keep it real remember the world is full of good people waiting for someone to keep them honest..

[battybattybats]

I've never heard of some of these terms like metrosexual. It looks like more descriptive words are being coined creating yet more categories.

Metrosexual is a term thats been around for a while now. It refers to an urban mens style where the guy is straight but takes as much care about their appearance as gay people are generaly thought to. Doing things like caring for fingernails, using clear nail polish and natural skin tone make-up, hair products etc. They get a lot of positive attention from women who had been bemoaning that all such guys were gay and a lot of flak from some men and women bemoaning the 'end' of the 'manly-men'.

Even "transgendered" is a relatively new word that can only be understood by those interested enough to look it up.

A quick look at what Trans means and what Gender means in any old oxford concise dictionary works fine, coverimg all aspects of the gender spectrum. Besides new words are coined every year.

The thing about topical discussions and debates is that if you make a statement like "Are we the same ?", be prepared to defend your statements. It is just part of of what Aristotol called the 'the dialetic'. I'ts not a matter of wether anyone is rightor wrong.

Kelly, you get for bringing up Aristotle!

[GaleWarning]

This is taken from Wikipedia ... in response to battybattybats' claim that I AM transgendered ...
(See post #21 on page 1)

"Cross-dressing is the act of wearing clothing commonly associated with another gender within a particular society.[1] The usage of the term, the types of cross-dressing both in modern times and throughout history, an analysis of the behaviour, and historical examples are discussed in the article below.

Nearly every human society throughout history has distinguished between male and female gender by the style, color, or type of clothing they wear and has had a set of norms, views, guidelines, or even laws defining what type of clothing is appropriate for each gender. Cross-dressing is a behavior which runs significantly counter to those norms and therefore can be seen as a type of transgender behavior. It does not, however, necessarily indicate transgender identity; a person who cross-dresses does not always identify as having a gender different from that assigned at birth.

The term cross-dressing denotes an action or a behavior without attributing or proposing causes for that behavior. Some people automatically connect cross-dressing behavior to transgender identity or sexual, fetishist, and homosexual behavior, but the term cross-dressing itself does not imply any motives. However, referring to a person as a cross-dresser suggests that their cross-dressing behavior is habitual and may be taken to mean that the person identifies as transgendered. The term cross-dresser should therefore be used with care to avoid causing misunderstanding or offense"


In light of this, I would say that although my liking for crossdressing may be seen as a type of transgender behaviour, I myself identify as being male at all times, and therefore I am NOT transgendered.

I hope this clears things up.