A Fetish, but why a secret????

[BrianaMarie]

Girls, I’m very confused and need your insight, I also need to vent. Unfortunately, I can’t make it short, so I apologize. I’m in a loving, long-term relationship with a wonderful, sexy man that I just happen to share my wardrobe with on occasion. I’m completely supportive, I participate and encourage him to dress as I feel this is not only beneficial for him, but there are times that I really need that emotional connection and support from her as well. I really do feel like I have the best of two worlds most of the time.

After being together for a few years, some life changing events forced him to be honest with me about the CD’ing. The news didn’t come as much of a surprise as I had surmised it may be true some time before but could never say for sure. I was indeed still hurt, in awe and curious, but still loved him none the less. After digesting it, I tried my best to put the heel on the other foot, be compassionate and understanding, we took things slowly, talked extensively and we eventually became extremely open about it, along with some other sexual fetishes and fantasies. I’ve done my best to be completely supportive of her; so I did much research, stumbled onto this website, we joined together a couple years ago and put all of the secrets behind us……. or so I thought.


Just recently I found out about a BDSM site that she was on. A lifestyle site on which she had an active user profile and online friends from the area, that I knew nothing about. I was floored and extremely hurt. I’ve known that there was a submissive side to her, dressed or not. We discussed this fetish and I’m perfectly fine and content with it and more than willing to participate, role play, etc. What I’m not fine with is yet another secret. How many more secrets are there? If there is indeed nothing more to it than a simple fetish/fantasy (that I ALREADY knew about) then why the secret? My conclusion is because it is deeper than she can or is willing to admit. Is it really more than I could handle? Or am I simply not enough? Is there an overwhelming need (just as there is an overwhelming need/desire to CD) to be with someone else to satisfy the fantasies? I thought we had full disclosure, so then why this part that couldn’t be shared? I was extremely hurt that there was an aspect of this lifestyle that was kept secret from me especially after all the discussion. If it isn’t a “BIG” deal, or isn’t needed and there’s not more than meets the eye then what’s the big deal about disclosing and telling me about it? I am pretty sure that there is a reluctance to discuss the detail of certain happenings, online activity, outings, friends and sexual fantasies and maybe even the extent of the desires that drive the entire CD’ing euphoria to a higher level.

After venting, I guess my question to all of you is, how prevalent is the desire to be submissive or dominant that goes along with CD’ing? Do most of you find that it’s a need that must be met as well? Is it more than just a fantasy but possibly a sexual way of life if you are to feel completely satisfied? I’m extremely curious.

I will quote another GG and say that when there is a degree of non-disclosure, secrets or a reluctance to discuss certain things, it causes the SO to feel disconnected and un-trusted, therefore causing her to wonder about her place in the relationship. So put on the big gurl panties and deal with whatever may come of the truth, but don’t LIE!! It is quite possible that the lie itself is much worse than the actual secret that your lying about!

[Holly]

...It is quite possible that the lie itself is much worse than the actual secret that your lying about!

Your point is well taken. I wish I had a good answer . You asked about a possible connection of CDing to submissive/dominant sexual fantasy or way of life. I cannot pretend to speak for the CDing community as a whole and can only answer for myself. My wife and I will assume both roles at different times. For me, my greatest satisfaction is seeing that her needs are fulfilled so I am willing to assume whatever role is necessary to accomplish that end. Then again, we have been married over 41 years and together even longer than that. In that time we both have learned that being sensitive to the need of the other naturally results in greater personal satisfaction. We've also learned of the pain and heartache that results when lies and secrets are allowed to enter the relationship and we vigorously avoid both. I hope the two of you can find the courage to work through this.

[sterling12]

I'll ask you a few questions you'll probably think are dumb, but I just want to use them for illustrative purposes. "Would you HAVE to know how your Partner voted in the Last Election?" "If he/she refused to tell you, would that be dishonest, or witholding something?" How about a REALLY TRUTHFUL Answer if you asked the all time favorite..."Does this dress make me look fat, or make my butt look too big?" Do you really want The Truth in that situation? (Careful if you say "yes" on that last one, then your not ever allowed to dredge it up 10 years later, nor carry around some festering resentment.)

Now, The BDSM Stuff is a "Biggie!" It's probably pretty shabby to not let your Partner know about something that major. But, there is an argument in The Psych World that says: "All humans need to keep some secret thoughts!" It's sort of a way for us to preserve some form of self-identity. I know of no law that says we have to spill our guts about EVERYTHING that we are thinking, to a spouse or anyone else. Can you imagine how many relationships would be ripped asunder if some dude spoke up and said what he was thinking when a good looking woman walked by? Or, She decided to express her fantasies about that "Hunkie Guy" she eyeballed at The Mall.

I wouldn't be completely traumatised about The Deception. It may be strictly fantasy, and harmless. Your choice, if you want to make it a bigger deal, but there could be consequences. You probably realize that, and of course your The One to decide. Besides mine, you will get lots of other "Opinions."

Are a lot of Trans People submissive? IMHO, the percentages probably are about the same as The Rest of Society. I have certainly met submissive CD's with Dominant partners, but I also know a lot of us who are Alpha males, and their femme side "don't take no crap" either! At The Alt. Pathway a few months back, one very strange Saturday Night, ended up leading a Sub CD around by a Dog Leash for a couple of hours. (A gift from her Domme...not my preference, but curiosity got the better of me.) To counterbalance that, The Joint also had about forty other Transpeople hanging about and none of them were into The BDSM Thing. Like I said, I think it mirrors The Rest of The World, there's a "spectrum" of behaviors.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[ginafaye]

i think Holly said it best, i to asume whatever role that she needs me to be

[wanda jackson]

Yes, secrets are worse than what they are hiding sometimes.

[gabimartini]

Briana,

I don't condone his lying. That's sad and you guys will need to talk about it. Your point is valid, so go ahead and ask him how many more secrets are there. You are willing to support his wildest fantasies as long as they are not a secret and they are not lied about.

As for being submissive, I think it goes beyond CDing. Some men have that desire without being CDers. It is not easy being Mr. Alpha-Male-Macho-Man-Super-Strong-Know-It-All 24/7. It is a label society imposes on men and people (family, spouses, etc) expect us to act accordingly. We must go through life without shedding a single tear for fear of being seen a weak and girly.

Hence, just admitting that the desire to be submissive exists goes against masculine roles. And worse, actually renouncing those roles (and enjoying it) is more than just a taboo, it is something worthy of "excommunication" from manhood. No man would like to carry that kind of label, you know, "weak and proud". So we go the greatest lengths to hide our weakenesses. Not that it makes any sense, because he is a CDer, you support him, so there should be enough trust for such things to be brought to the fore.

Hope you guys can work it out through a lot of honest and direct communication.

xo
Gabi

[Shari]

It's not nearly as bad as you think Briana.
I believe that in the cd community, bondage is more prevalent than in mainstream society.
I practice it and enjoy it myself. My SO and I have had many wonderful and satisfying role plays with me dressed.

That being said, I'll give you an example of how the male thinks.
I usually go to bed before my wife. Just last night, I donned one of my favorite camisoles and slid between the sheets.
I realized an excitement like I'd gotten away with something. I awaken before her and I knew I could remove it once I got up and she would never be the wiser.
The weird thing is that if she found out, it was okay and I know that. She knows I do it from time to time but not all the time. It gave me the thrill of hiding a "secret" sort of like it used to be when nobody knew about Shari.
There is a thrill factor involved in keeping a secret, especially a sexually driven one.

Lastly, he's not lying.
That was a pretty stern assessment and not warranted unless he's involved physically with others in his fantasy world.
He doesn't love you any less because he does these things. The male constantly seeks stimulation and most is arrived at visually.
Doesn't mean he's cheating or anything else.
He's just doing what the snakes and snails and puppy dog tails make him do, even though he has a little more sugar and spice than the average guy.

[Aaron Zwidling]

Some good answers to your questions have been posted. In addition to what has already been written I can offer some other possibilities. It could be he is a bit ashamed of that part of himself. It could be he doesn't fully accept it himself. Or it could be he was worried if you found out about that aspect of him it could be one thing too many. Sort of like the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of your relationship.

I don't know if this is quite the same thing, but I can offer an example of sorts from my own experience. My wife knows I dress, and is supportive of it. She also knows I have a closet full of dresses, and that I wear them at times. The thing is I generally don't wear them in front of her. This has more to do with me and the way I was brought up than it has to do with her. Some part of my brain tells me I'm the man in our marriage and the man isn't the one who wears the dress. Another part of my brain tells me I like to wear pretty dresses. The compromise I've worked out between the two parts of my brain is that I will wear dresses, but not usually where the woman in the relationship (my wife) will see me wearing them. Silly, definitely, but even me understanding what I am doing and why I'm doing it doesn't make it that much easier to stop doing it.

I'm not saying it is the same case with your man. The only way to know for sure is to talk about the situation with him and draw your own conclusions from his answers. For my part do I want a different wife? No! Would I be happier if I was more comfortable wearing a dress in front of her? Likely I would be, but that isn't her fault, it's mine. All I can add is life can be complicated and answers to questions just as complicated. Hope it works out for the best with the two of you.

[eluuzion]

I will quote another GG and say that when there is a degree of non-disclosure, secrets or a reluctance to discuss certain things, it causes the SO to feel disconnected and un-trusted, therefore causing her to wonder about her place in the relationship. So put on the big gurl panties and deal with whatever may come of the truth, but don’t LIE!! It is quite possible that the lie itself is much worse than the actual secret that your lying about!

I feel everyone should always tell the truth…even if they have to make it up. Lol

On a serious note…
People are rarely deceptive in only one area of their lives.

Everyone seems to define “lie” and “deception” uniquely according to their personal experiences. Unfortunately, some define them based upon whatever places them in the most promising position at the time.

There are many types of lies. But generally speaking, the form is either direct or indirect.

Most people prefer “indirect” simply because it gives the liar more choices (denial, misinterpretation, absentmindedness, etc). A popular choice in indirect lying is “lies by omission”. One lies by omission by omitting an important fact, deliberately leaving another person with a misconception. Lying by omission includes failures to correct pre-existing misconceptions. (Wiki)

The circumstance and justification is really irrelevant in a relationship crisis to the “victim”. Although the perpetrator of the injustice may feel better about telling an indirect lie as compared to a direct lie, the person being misled doesn’t see it that way - they still feel that they have been “lied” to. As you noted, it makes them feel disconnected in some way and undermines the trust in the relationship. Trust is an extremely fragile thing that when betrayed or lost, is difficult or impossible to regain.

I believe that a great percentage of relationship problems (particularly those of loyalty, trust and honesty) result from the couples attempting to define relationship boundaries after a crisis has taken place. That is like trying to “back out” of an automobile crash after it already happened.

Partners need to clearly state and define their individual expectations and limits coming into the relationship. (Particularly any areas where one would refuse to compromise). The goal is to arrive at a mutually agreed upon set of boundaries which both pledge to uphold, and failure to do so could potentially end the relationship. Of course it is an ongoing process. But it provides an initial and critical base for avoiding conflict.

That is just my view. I never claimed it wasn't a twisted one...

On the CD connection theory…submissive possibly more common, but nothing along those lines is "inherent" with the behavior, in my opinion.

[sherri]

Few things are as unsettling as the jolt of realizing you really don't know a friend or loved one like you thought you did. In the case of a marriage, it feels like you've been sleeping with a stranger! So Briana, I totally agree with you about the honesty thing in marriage, but that doesn't mean that it's always easy. In fact, it can be downright scary and difficult at times to bare your soul, even with your mate. Especially with your mate! And too, your hubby may have been disrespecting your relationship by keeping his secrets, but he may also have been in the process of discovering some things about himself, not understanding them well enough to share them. Either that, or he's just been behaving like a sneaky perv! :D

One thing to keep in mind is that fantasies are one thing, reality another. The internet is pretty bad about fueling, even escalating, a person's fantasies. Some experimentation may confirm the desires, but it might also be a sobering dose of reality for one or both of you. But assuming it's everything your hubby has dreamed of, you have every right to insist on some parameters. For one thing, no more sneaking around, and no infidelity. Some people rationalize that fooling around on the internet isn't cheating, but I don't agree, and I also know that it can spiral out of control and lead to cheating.

As for the domination thing, there may be two levels to it, and the sexual aspect may actually be the easiest to cope with. What I mean is, if you're cool with exploring the sexual side of domination it's really just bedroom fun and games, right? But if your sweety really desires a general overhaul in the dynamics of your relationship, a change in which he wants you to play the more forceful, controlling role in matters outside the bedroom, well, that can involve a pretty big sea change, right?

I know it's politically incorrect these days to characterize the wife as the subservient partner in a marriage, but still, I think many woman do need and expect a certain strength and masculinity from her man, and it can be disorienting if he wants something different. I know I would welcome a relationship with a GG in which she is not only the aggressor in the bedroom, but also the "one in charge", so to speak, in most aspects of the relationship. I don't know if this is how your hubby feels, but if he does, you guys are in for some interesting times, to say the least.

[switcheralso]

I am married with a wife of 15 years who has know about my C/D for 3 years. I also enjoy role playing of BDSM and the dream of being forced to dress up and then tied up. My wife has just experimented with being tied up in the last couple of months.

I will tell you that I have also been sexual with male friends and my wife has no idea about this situation. I also would never tell her about it unless I knew she would play as a couple. Do I think I cold talk my way out of the situation if I got caught the answer would be yes. Would my wife trust me from that point on in a relationship probably not to be honest.

As you can tell by the thread not every person is like me that C/D.

Good Luck.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Isnt BDSM about trust and control and getting sexual pleasure from trading off them?..being an active member on a sexual website is WITHOUT A DOUBT something that needs to be disclosed!!!! for crying out loud, slipping into bed in panties for an hour is quiet personal fun, going online with a screen name? thats very meaningful.

..read switcheroo's very honest and compelling post...
she is trying to tell you that liars lie and her post is a perfect example of how it works

lying is much more readily accepted/explained away by tg folks because we were born doing it...we didnt know any better
i guess you could you say the truth can hurt and i know i lied and avoided being hurt for most of my life.

saying everybody lies, or its just a lie of omission are good examples of this

I hope you guys can work it out and that you can get him to realize how much he is screwing up by lying to someone as caring and open as yourself

[Joanne f]

I can see why you feel the way you do after assuming that you shared all of the secrets only to fined that there are more .
I would imagine that most people have fantasies so that is nothing unusual and due to the nature of CDing i could well imagine what type of fantasies most will have , i must admit that i know very little about the BDSM things but cannot really say that i have heard that it is particularly connected to CDing .

[Sheila]

Just recently I found out about a BDSM site that she was on. .................. We discussed this fetish and I’m perfectly fine and content with it and more than willing to participate, role play, etc.

What I’m not fine with is yet another secret. How many more secrets are there? If there is indeed nothing more to it than a simple fetish/fantasy (that I ALREADY knew about) then why the secret?

Okay you have discussed the fetish and are willing to participate and role play , so why not use this willingness to get demand answers to your questions/worries and concerns and use them to ensure ground rules are met and kept within the agreed on boundaries ............

[mklinden2010]

>>I was extremely hurt that there was an aspect of this lifestyle that was kept secret from me especially after all the discussion. If it isn’t a “BIG” deal, or isn’t needed and there’s not more than meets the eye then what’s the big deal about disclosing and telling me about it?


Who knows what the "big" deal is at this point in your mutual lives about disclosing this - and who cares?

If someone lies and hurts you, after you've been led to believe there is "now" total trust, it's time to walk away.

Trying to figure out "their" problem is ignoring your problem: you're not getting what you want out of your closest relationship and now you know you sensibly never will. Not really, not with any certainty... And that's important.

Lip service, lies, and deceit... Who needs 'em but dissemblers, liars, and deceivers?

Trust is "the" thing with intimate relations. Mess that up and the deal is off.

Been there, did that - know better (now) than to give third chances...

Their life is demonstrably THEIR life.

Fine.

Move on.

Today.

[abigailf]

It's not about not trusting you, sometimes keeping a secret is just a need.

I could be wrong, but it is likely she will always want to keep something secret from you and from others. Most likely you will find out about them in time (as you did with the BDSM).

You need to decide if you are ok with her keeping secrets. If you are, then you will have to trust the secrets she keeps will not break your vows or hurt anyone.

[carhill2mn]

Hi Briana.
I can understand you feeling hurt about just finding out about your SO's interest in SDBM especially, since you were of the opinion that there were no more "secrets". I do laud you for your being able to support his CDing desires/needs.

I cannot speak for any CDs other than myself as to being "submissive". I don't think that as a CD I am "submissive". However, I do try to always act "lady-like". Based upon what I have read about many ladies, this does not mean being submissive as much as it means acting differently to achieve what you want/need. In fact, there is a lot of historical evidence that women are not the "weaker sex" but the stronger and that a great many of these strong women never were anything other than "lady-like".

Even if you are "OK" with SDBM, I think that you and your SO need to do some more serious talking re: your feelings; expectations, etc.

I wish both of you the best!

[AmandaM]

<<how prevalent is the desire to be submissive or dominant that goes along with CD’ing? Do most of you find that it’s a need that must be met as well? Is it more than just a fantasy but possibly a sexual way of life if you are to feel completely satisfied?>>

I think it's more common among CDers then the average Joe. For me, I prefer to be submissive to my wife most of the time. It's just my nature. The need doesn't "have to" be met, but I am happier when it is. Sexual way of life? For me, sort of. I would prefer to take the role of a traditional housewife to her businesswoman life. So, I think your situation is specific to you and him. You need to find out the extent of his proclivities and then determine if they are acceptable to you.

[DonnaT]

One thing that makes the world so interesting is that we are all different.

Not everyone can be open about their fantasies, even when asked to share without consequence/judgment.

I know my wife has some. I've bought magazines for her to read, like Variations, and have asked her to share her fantasies, or the stories she likes best, but she can't open up.

I see no point in getting upset about it. It's her secret. No harm, no foul.

[BrianaMarie]

Gurls, thank you so much for all of your insight. Although every one of you has something different to say, I value your opinions and I can see everyone's point on the situation so I'm trying to keep an open mind about that.

I made this post simply to vent, get things off my chest, get other CD's prospective and to draw her attention to my feelings so we could discuss it and work through things. We're talking and just like everything else about this lifestyle, I'm sure it will all come out in time.

I luv, luv, luv this site and I am so glad that I have all of you here to lean on! Thanks again my darlings!!

[MarinaKirax]

Hmmm.
I am speaking as a longtime cross-dresser who was found by his wife on this website. In the past, she had discovered me on other BDSM and cross-dressing websites, but I had talked my way out of that one. In January of this year, the jig was up. We have had quite a lot of talking, and she has been fantastic about it. But what she has had to deal with is not just the cross-dressing, but how my desire to be tied up as a woman plays into that.

First question, do you have a right to feel betrayed with this new "secret"? In my opinion, absolutely. One of the things that I read about on this website, but that didn't really hit home until my wife had to go through it, was the reality, the intensity, and the depth of the betrayal that she felt. I felt I had just kept this aspect from her for my own self, to avoid embarrassment, and anyway wouldn't she rather think of me in a manly way rather than as a cross-dresser? Wasn't I also doing her a bit of a favor as well? In the end, it turns out emphatically that the answer is no. It's an issue of trust in a relationship, and if he is going elsewhere to obtain sexual gratification and expand any of his sexual energy, it's an issue for your marriage. You have a right to feel betrayed.

Second question, is it at all explicable for him to go to these forums for a kind of sexual gratification which does not involve meeting, having sex with, or in any other way breaking the vows of your marriage? I believe that it is valid. It is possible to obtain an innocent sexual stimulation from these kinds of websites. They can provide the fodder for countless fantasies, and for continued pleasant self-delusion (in my case, it was Second Life, and the continued presentation of myself as a blond , black latex, stilettoed and collared slave). There is complete anonymity on these sites, and anonymity, when you have lived with these "fetishes" in secret for a long time, equals freedom. It's the anonymity of this Internet world that attracts us, and the fact that it is always ready whenever we are. With an Internet website, you're never going to be in trouble for dressing too often, asking too much, being too kinky, and you're never going to be shut down. It's always there, and always ready for you. I think the attraction of these Internet worlds is the freedoms that I've outlined above, and not necessarily that they are "not you". I wouldn't necessarily be threatened by the fact that he is interested in these sites, and unless your sexual appetite, (particularly for his fetishes,) matches exactly his own, there will always be some unrequited desire for him to be there.

From my own situation, I would suggest having an extremely, gritty, and uncomfortably detailed talk about what excites him, and why. Set down some rules for visiting these sites, if he feels that it's a necessary part of keeping him sexually excited. Make sure that the first sexual priority in your relationship is each other, and that if anyone feels the need to go outside this, that it's done in an open and honest manner. I'm not sure I have any better advice than that. Marina

[Midnight Skye]

Hey Briana, Sorry he did that with you. My wife and myself had the same two secrets come up on my side. They were very very hard to disclose. Telling someone you're into BDSM is not as easy as one might think. Once its out in the open (and the other person is accepting) its nothing short of fantastic. I wasn't able to come out to my wife about both of these secrets as well. After a bad couple months before getting married I finally fessed up I was into various parts of BDSM... it wasn't until after I married I was able to tell her about my feminine side.

Odds are he doesn't have any more deep dark life changing secrets... they're will be facets of the lifestyle which will come out over time as you said. And I wouldn't fret too much about the separate social identify your bad girl had out there. In all likelyhood it was an mostly innocent attempt to prevent insanity while still staying with the one she cared about the most (you). Quite a few people don't realize BDSM tastes and needs can be a deal breaker in a relationship... there's a deep dark world out there to explore and some people aren't into that.

[switcheralso]

MarinaKirax thank you for the post that was great insight.

[JillMarie]

Yes, I think the naughty girl should be punished. Just make sure that you have more fun than she does.

Jill

:fairy1:Why do angles fly? Because they take themselves lightly.:fairy3:

[trisha11]

I am glad baby that you have this forum as well, I am glad you get the opinions of others, that you can vent, that you can get insight from other gurls. I am positive that we will work through this speed bump as well and I look forward to talking and communicating our wants and desires with each other moving forward. I am both excited and nervous to explore our new found BDSM desires together........wink wink