Is there such thing as a FtM CDER ?

[Sheila]

It's funny to see how many people thinks that a tomboy is probably a lesbian, while there are many threads in this site emphasizing the "I'm a CD but not gay at all"

Yup I noticed that.... good old double standards you gotta love em :brolleyes:

[Satrana]

There are, the forum you are on now is as much for FTM CDers as it is for MTF CDers.
We all share many similarities on our journeys and the ways in which we all deal with them.

I am aware the site is open to all. But my question still remains if you google female crossdressers and exclude references to drag kings and butch lesbians then you basically come up with zip all for FTM CDs in stark contrast to the millions of hits for MTF CDs.

The only plausible explanation to me is that females with mild TG expressions choose the socially acceptable tomboy label and consider themselves to be normal and mainstream. Only those with more profound gender dysphoria recognize tomboy is not applicable and come to a TG site like this.

Make sense?

[tamarav]

[SIZE=4]I have actually had 3 very active FtM clients in the past 5 years. All three are good looking women that simply like to CD. One I helped with false facial hair and a crew cut wig, suit and men's shoes and we went dancing at a local casino. Damnned if she didn't hit on a couple of women at the casino. Her husband laughs at her and me. Think about that one..[/SIZE]

[Andy66]

The definition of "crossdresser" is starting to sound pretty subjective. Is it how a person identifies (male or female), or wants to be seen by the public? Could be, but not all MtF crossdressers identify or want to be seen as female when dressed, so maybe some FtM crossdressers don't either. Is it the mere fact of which section of the store you got your clothes? Not always, because tomboys aren't necessarily considered crossdressers. Apparently neither are Emo boys who sometimes wear girl's clothes in a boyish way.
Is it who they prefer to date? I think we've established here that Transmen, Transwomen, and MtF crossdressers don't necessarily have to fall into the gay/lesbian, straight or bi category.

In my personal experience... I've been wearing some, but not all male clothes for as long as I can remember, usually mixing them. Men's pants, women's top; or women's pants, men's shirt. The tomboy and crossdresser labels both technically fit me, but I don't completely identify as either. Gender-wise, I'm somewhere in the middle, and flexible according to my mood at the moment - sometimes feeling more masculine and sometimes more feminine. So what the heck am I? I suppose I'm neither here nor there; all and nothing at all. : The only time I feel like a crossdresser is when I dress very masculine.

[Ze]

The definition of "crossdresser" is starting to sound pretty subjective.

Which brings us back to square 1. :D

[Toni_Lynn]

I have to take a deep breath and count to 10 before I reply to this thread. I probably won't say much as a part of my reply, apart from that I consider it an extreme prejudice and disrespect to our FTM brothers all along the spectrum (from CD to TG) to even consider that there is no such things as an FTM CDer. As an MTF CDer it insults even me, because I know how I would feel if I went to a 'group', be it on-line or not, and had my very existence questioned.

Stop to think about it -- maybe the reason that we hear so little of FTM CDers is because CDing takes on the era of, and I shudder to use the term, a boys club house complete with a sign that says NO GIRLS ALLOWED. There is room enough under the CDing sky for all. As MTFs we don't own the trademark.

That said, I have known at least 2 FTM CDers personally in my life time. I have come across many more on the web.

Personally, I wish that more GGs would try CDing. As a 'hobby' its too much fun not to share. And that, is why, while my wife doesn't CD the whole way, she does do men's undies as a part of our romantic play. And she says its a blast!

Side note: Apologies if I said anything offensive to my MTF brothers. I admire you guys so much for your courage in being yourself.

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

[Niya W]

yes, i've seen two. Right down to the drawn on mustache , or fake mustache ,

[Ze]

Wonderful reply, Toni-Lynn, thank you.

[Satrana]

The definition of "crossdresser" is starting to sound pretty subjective.

I agree and it is not only the crossdresser label that is subjective but most likely also the label tomboy as well. May I ask you a question Anne - as a GG who perhaps has "mild" transgendered feelings, if you were not part of the TG culture, if you did not have a CD partner and so never visited sites like this - would you ever used the term crossdresser for yourself or would you have simply used the term tomboy as a label that was familiar and acceptable to you?

You see there is a huge mismatch in the two sides and I see no reason for this to exist. For males there are tens of millions of CDs and a small number of full time transgenderists/transsexuals. On the female side there are tens of millions of tomboys, hardly any crossdressers and small number of full time transgenderists/transsexuals. This glaring discrepancy disappears when you merge the tomboys and FTM CDs together into one.

But this causes a huge problem. Mainstream GG culture has women living a form of TG lifestyle and so many non-TG women think of themselves as being a bit of a tomboy. As a result most tomboys are not TG and those who are do not use what we may feel is a more accurate label for them -crossdresser. After all it is human nature not to want to be different from others and have a stigmatized label attached to you. Given the choice wouldn't anyone choose the safe option?

I am not sure why some people are sensitive about discussing this. It is not about claiming that GGs with TG feelings do not exist but rather that the evidence suggests that very few of them consider themselves to be TG and are most likely unaware and not interested in the TG community and our desire for clearly defined labels.

Rather it appears they consider themselves to be normal, mainstream and shame-free and happily living their lives. Good for them.

[Andy66]

as a GG who perhaps has "mild" transgendered feelings, if you were not part of the TG culture, if you did not have a CD partner and so never visited sites like this - would you ever used the term crossdresser for yourself or would you have simply used the term tomboy as a label that was familiar and acceptable to you?

Very good, Satrana. I see what you're getting at. You're assuming a lot of things about me, but I think you're on the right track.

I have learned a lot about all of you on this website, and about myself. I usually either use the term tomboy or something to the effect of "that's my lesbian side." It's just easier to understand and more socially acceptable, even if it doesn't tell the whole story. It never crossed my mind that wearing men's clothes was crossdressing until I started reading all the posts by MtFs about how unfair they feel the clothing situation is. Then it occurred to me, what I do is technically crossdressing, even if it's not usually considered as such.

That's just me though. I suspect that if you tried to call most tomboys crossdressers, they would not identify as that, and might you with their purse... or their tool belt.

[Violetgray]

Nope. FtM crossdressers couldn't possibly exist!

[Felix]

Hi Sheila and yeah you are right like the guys here said. I agree with Debs though there are many parallels if we take the time to look myself and Helen have found many since we have been sharing our lives xx Felix

[Sheila]

Thanks to all who have so far replied, I was willing to be proved wrong, honest I was, but I just could not get my head round the fact that if M2F's cross dressed, then F2M's wouldn't or couldn't do the same.

However I must admit to being puzzled by the lack of F2M's looking for support from a site such as this ........... I do have a theory as to why they don't appear here, but that one I will keep to myself for fear of stirring a hornets nest up

[victoriamwilliams1]

I was wondering the same thing I like the responses I think it would be cool to hang out with a F2M CD

[Ze]

I do have a theory as to why they don't appear here, but that one I will keep to myself for fear of stirring a hornets nest up

I think we're on the same page with it, too.

Buzzzzz...

[Sheila]

Buzzzzz...

******SWAT****** ooopppppsssssss sorry :Ze: didn't see you there

[KarenCDFL]

It wasn't that long ago in relative terms that women wearing pants was considered just as "wierd" as a male person in a dress. It wasn't always taken as "being cute." For example people were shocked to see Marlene Dietrich wearing "a man's suit."

HI Karen,

I remember back in the late 1960's in elementary school that the rule was all girls had to wear a skirt or a dress and pants were not allowed.

I remember my female teacher at the time saying in class that "The day that I wear pants, all of the girls can"

[Bones]

Yes, occasionally I will slip into a dress. If that's what you mean by "FtM cross dresser."



It is a guilty pleasure, and I don't indulge in it often because I don't want my family and friends to be under the impression that I'm "confused" about my gender identity. They already think I'm doing this for all the wrong reasons...

I do not consider dressing as a man "cross dressing." That for me is wearing clothes appropriate for my gender. Wearing girl's clothes is cross dressing for me.

[Sheila]

Bones no that is not what I meant :rasp:. ........... ow I can see you are gonna be trouble ............. am gonna keep a close eye on you young man


Not bad, you have bee here all of 5 mins and already you been Tamarad .......... even if it is only by me

[Bones]

Oh? I hope I didn't make a boo-boo. It sounds like maybe I did.

Edit: OH NOW I THINK I GET IT.
FtM CDer as in drag kings!

I thought you meant FtMs who cross dressed.

[Sheila]

no bones you didn't ............ my weird way of thinking and humour sometimes does not cross the water well

Because there are as we all know M2F CDER's I made the assumption that there would be F2M CDERs as well, who liked to dress either on a reg basis or occasionally just like the M2F ................. somebody did not quite agree with my way of think so I thought I would come and ask the folks who would surely have a clue you guys

F2M as in Females who like/need to dress as guys on occasions for whatever reasons

ya and I don't offend easily ........... I tend to be the doer

[Bones]

Yeah. FtM in my mind for some reason always means, "Trans man! Transsexual! Male-identified!" etc. I need to expand my mind a bit.

[Thornton]

I thought you meant FtMs who cross dressed.

that made my brain hurt...

[Ze]

that made my brain hurt...

Y'all are thinking too hard.

[Sheila]

Y'all are thinking too hard.

He is right, I am a simple soul with very simple thoughts :D:D