Is the Pink Fog Really Transsexuality?

[Nicole Erin]

Pink fog is not a sign of TS'ness.

As Kate said, after a while it just becomes normal.
Me, I wear women's clothes every day. I ain't talking about a stupid ball gown or cheerleader outfit, but just women's shorts or slacks and a pretty tee or blouse.

Let me tell ya how bad it can get - OK today I am kind of down, come time to get ready for class I thought - "Well I don't really feel focused, plus there ain't no way in G.D. hell I am gonna get up, do my hair, my makeup, putting on a stupid bra and get pretty just to go to class."
I am to the point of hating to dress up. Trying to live as a woman is a lot of work. I wish like hell I could throw away this bag of makeup and still look like a woman without it.
At one time I was in the pink fog myself, years ago. Oh how I loved dressing as Erin, but once you find yourself having to do all that crap just to present as your chosen gender, it becomes work. I have NO pink fog left.

Kind of funny I guess, wanting to be a woman yet hating the process of presenting as such. So many CD's wish they could live full time doing the skirts, pantyhose, makeup, long hair, heels...

Trust me, when a hobby becomes everyday life, the fun vanishes quickly.

[Rianna Humble]

pink fog is not an indication of being a transexual.

You know a lot more than I do, Carol, but it started that way for me.

I don't wish to deny anybody's personal road to self-realisation and I dare say that a number of us who had been hiding from our true nature can point to episodes of Pink Fog when we first admitted that we like to cross-dress. But I have to agree that pink fog is not an indication that we are TS, it is an indication that we have become temporarily obsessed. Plenty of CD's who will never be TS can point to episodes of the fog.

[Terraforming]

I don't wish to deny anybody's personal road to self-realisation and I dare say that a number of us who had been hiding from our true nature can point to episodes of Pink Fog when we first admitted that we like to cross-dress. But I have to agree that pink fog is not an indication that we are TS, it is an indication that we have become temporarily obsessed. Plenty of CD's who will never be TS can point to episodes of the fog.

Agreed. From my own experience and from those I've read about, the pink fog tends to dissipate just as quickly as it appears. Such desires are pretty common to the MtF side of the transgendered community. I guess the difference is when it does dissipate and you're no longer in the mood to put up with going all out with your appearance, do you sink back into male mode, or do you seek a comfortable female state.

So in essence, while the pink fog really brings out a lot more femininity out of us, the state is temporary. It's not really about femininity at all really, as there are tomboys amongst us that are women just like the rest.

[Rondalake]

I agree! While I'm unable to go out en femme very often I think about it several time a day.

Hugs,
Roni L.

[Starling]

Does being TS mean I should never need to dress, because it's not about the clothes, but something inside? If so, what is RLE all about--in fact, what is TS all about--if one doesn't look or act any different from the average male? If being TS only meant the way you felt deep within, why bother with the externals at all?

It's because the externals are gender signifiers, and they reinforce one's own gender consciousness as well as influence the way others behave toward us. The clothes, the accessories, the hair, the makeup--they all perform this dual function.

Plus, they're pretty and soft, so they make us feel pretty and soft, which I submit is a value not limited to TS folk.

I think there's a false dichotomy between CD and TS. Many times I've read posts that say, "For years I thought I was CD, but lately I feel more and more TS." Sometimes I think it just depends on the way the light happens to hit you.

No matter how macho you are half the time, there's something pretty girly about a guy who likes to wear dresses. And I think that's great!

I'm not saying that everybody is the same, but that we have enough in common to suggest that we're not entirely different--and that the Pink Fog can actually wake us to who we really are.

Lallie

[Terraforming]

Does being TS mean I should never need to dress, because it's not about the clothes, but something inside? If so, what is RLE all about--in fact, what is TS all about--if one doesn't look or act any different from the average male? If being TS only meant the way you felt deep within, why bother with the externals at all?

You are who you are. Some girls refuse to go out without doing hours worth of hair and makeup, that's fine for them. Some girls put their hair up in a ponytail and wear a t-shirt and jeans out with little to no makeup, that's fine too. In both cases though, the presentation is still as a female. That's why the desire to dress and transsexuality are mutually exclusive. There's not really an all or nothing case. RLE is about functioning in society, whether it's like a tomboy or like a girly girl.

It's because the externals are gender signifiers, and they reinforce one's own gender consciousness as well as influence the way others behave toward us. The clothes, the accessories, the hair, the makeup--they all perform this dual function.

They can give reinforcement to your gender consciousness, but whether you're in a fancy ball gown or butt naked, you're still a girl.

I think there's a false dichotomy between CD and TS. Many times I've read posts that say, "For years I thought I was CD, but lately I feel more and more TS." Sometimes I think it just depends on the way the light happens to hit you.

Life is a journey. Not everyone makes the realization from their earliest years that something is direly wrong with how they are being taught to live in society. Some people discover that later on in life. However, just because there are a lot of people who make their realization through crossdressing doesn't really remove a barrier between the two groups. There are a huge number of reasons that people crossdress, one of them being that the person in question is actually transgendered. However, there is still a huge difference between wearing the clothes of the opposite sex, and feeling displacement in society because you feel that you are a member of the opposite sex. They may seem sort of close, but they are worlds apart.

I'm not saying that everybody is the same, but that we have enough in common to suggest that we're not entirely different--and that the Pink Fog can actually wake us to who we really are.

Lallie

Of course, that's the reason the transgendered community is truly a community. Our problems are drastically different from one group to the next, but overall we're facing the issue of fighting established norms of how someone of a certain gender should act.

The pink fog is kind of a blissful state. I do agree that it's possible that it can put on the path to realizing who you are, but I don't think that's a very common case because of how temporary it is. I can't speak for everyone, but truly understanding that I was a girl wasn't the byproduct of a blissful moment, rather it was a daunting realization I had made after a lot of soul searching. It made me understand that there was a long and difficult road ahead, which isn't something I ever felt from the fog.

[Starling]

"The presentation is still as a female." That was my point, or one of them, Terra, but I'm going away for several days so I won't be able to engage you again until next week.

Lallie

PS: Your avatar is very girly.

[Rianna Humble]

I apologise in advance that this will be a long post, but I thought that Lallie's points deserved to be addressed seriously. If you would prefer to skip to the next post in the thread, rather than wade through my arguments, please feel free to do so.

Does being TS mean I should never need to dress, because it's not about the clothes, but something inside?

I dress, but in some ways I feel a little bit of a fraud being here because I no longer cross-dress since I am a woman 24/7.

If so, what is RLE all about--in fact, what is TS all about--if one doesn't look or act any different from the average male?

RLE is about proving (first to myself, then to others) that I can function in society as the woman that I have always known myself to be even if I have only recently admitted that to myself.

I have yet to meet an MtF TS who looked or acted anything like the average male - we are not male, we are women in the wrong body.

If being TS only meant the way you felt deep within, why bother with the externals at all?

It is not just about feelings, it is about who we are. What differentiates us from the average MtF CD is that we are women, the CD's want to present as women then go back to being men.

I have no problem with someone who is CD but not TS - in fact I actively support some. One of the reasons why I joined an LGBT activist organisation is to try to help make things better for both CD's and TS's, but that does not make the conditions interchangeable.

It's because the externals are gender signifiers, and they reinforce one's own gender consciousness as well as influence the way others behave toward us. The clothes, the accessories, the hair, the makeup--they all perform this dual function.

Plus, they're pretty and soft, so they make us feel pretty and soft, which I submit is a value not limited to TS folk.

You are right that the reasons why women wear women's clothes have a lot in common with why a man might wear women's clothes, but that does not make an MtF CD stop being a man. I went to work yesterday in jeans and a tee shirt and that did not turn me into a man.

I think there's a false dichotomy between CD and TS. Many times I've read posts that say, "For years I thought I was CD, but lately I feel more and more TS." Sometimes I think it just depends on the way the light happens to hit you.

A lot of us have spent a long time hiding from ourselves, so for a while we grudgingly admit that we are cross-dressers and hope that it will stop there. Gradually, as we take on more and more of the presentation of who we really are, we find it harder to deny that we are in fact already women, but suffering from a birth defect - we got the wrong body!

No matter how macho you are half the time, there's something pretty girly about a guy who likes to wear dresses. And I think that's great!

So do I, it just doesn't apply to me.

I'm not saying that everybody is the same, but that we have enough in common to suggest that we're not entirely different

Then we can agree on that - we do have things in common.

--and that the Pink Fog can actually wake us to who we really are.

It has been my experience of Pink Fog that rather than awakening me to who I really am, it served to distract me from considering the consequences of what I wanted to do under its influence. That is why I describe Pink Fog as an obsession rather than a reality.

None of what I have written is intended in any way to detract from anybody else's experiences.

[Gerrijerry]

I agree it is different for everyone. Personally the female clothing is only saying that I am dressed the way I feel inside. it is not a sexual thing at all. I am happy in female jeans as well as a formal dress.

[PretzelGirl]

I dress, but in some ways I feel a little bit of a fraud being here because I no longer cross-dress since I am a woman 24/7.

From the top of the page:

*** Welcome to Crossdressers.Com ***
*** The #1 Community for Crossdressers, the Transgendered, Transsexuals, their Loved Ones and Friends ***
Which part makes you a fraud?

[Jamie14]

If you are always thinking about it, it seems a logical argument that it is something you want to be. I dont think I want to go down tht road but sometimes when I am stuck thinking about it over and over, it makes me wonder............

[Rianna Humble]

I dress, but in some ways I feel a little bit of a fraud being here because I no longer cross-dress since I am a woman 24/7.

From the top of the page:

*** Welcome to Crossdressers.Com ***
*** The #1 Community for Crossdressers, the Transgendered, Transsexuals, their Loved Ones and Friends ***
Which part makes you a fraud?

Thank you, Sue. Now why didn't I think of that before I opened my big mouth?

[Shananigans]

As I understand transsexualism, the individual has great gender dysphoria. It's not a matter of "wanting" to be a woman, or just dressing like a woman. It's the fact that you Are a woman and you were born into the wrong gender, and that is Very distressing.

I think some crossdressers may experience this, but I think for many transsexuals, it's not like they wake up one day and go, "Damn, I want to dress like a woman 24/7." It's that they feel each and everyday as if they weren't in the right gender.

Tell me if I'm wrong. Or thoughts/opinions. I always think about this topic from time to time.

[Loni]

well i am a man. i was born with 5-5-5-5-1.

i like girls. only.

i love to look like a girl.

i would love to try to live (24-7) as a girl for a time. but peter and the stones remain.

i have no need to change my body, other than what i can do to look more like a girl, with out doing any surgery. i do have a medical contd were doing away with the "T" and adding "E". can be done for a other medical reason.
but some of the benefits just would not go over very good in "his" life.
i love the pink fog. just need control at times. but no life/body changes for me. if i did i would be a lesbian.

.

[ReineD]

I've also often wondered what is the difference between a FT CD and a non-op TS. I've even asked several times in the M2F, but no one ever answers!

In fact, I may even start a thread about this. It's a slightly different way to ask the question than here.

I don't think pink fog has anything to do with it. There are different degrees and durations of pink fog.

I define pink fog as a single-mindedness about presenting femme, to the exclusion of loved ones' feelings or perhaps to other life responsibilities, but for CDs only. This wouldn't apply to TSs, since their focus would naturally be about working towards permanently matching their outsides to their insides. And this is not an easy path to take.

[Starling]

I wondered how the Pink Fog related to transsexualism because it seems that many here have experienced it before engaging in deep introspection and realizing they were actually TS. I feel this is true in my situation. Although I felt for many years that crossdressing was not enough for me, I didn't know where I fit in until I had this resource as a reality check.

There seems to be a consensus that TS folk no longer dress for sexual pleasure or the thrill of impersonating a woman in public, but seek to fulfill as much as possible and with the least amount of fuss their true identity and role.

In order to make this transition as comfortable as possible, as well as by preference, almost all the TS women here choose to dress in undeniably female fashion, rather than in men's underwear and jeans, a man's shirt and men's shoes, while wearing a crewcut.

TS women who cannot undertake RLE must find their own coping strategies. Mine includes dressing whenever I can, but always interacting with others as the woman I really am.

Lallie

[sometimes_miss]

I think it's because we are...well...women, pure and simple.

It's another example of someone wanting to know that others feel the same way that she does. Some do, some don't. While I have a lot of female traits, I have male ones as well. The only reason I would want to have been a woman is because it would have fit with everything else in my life better than being a man has. But simply changing myself from being a big homely man to being a big homely woman wouldn't really address the problems that caused all of this. Not to mention, that I'm not attracted to men at all, so I would just wind up being a lonely woman instead of a lonely man.

[CharleneT]

I'm not saying that everybody is the same, but that we have enough in common to suggest that we're not entirely different--and that the Pink Fog can actually wake us to who we really are.

Lallie

Intriguing questions in this thread

Here is a point, subtle but important. Yes, we all have things in common, and you could view the space between CD and TS as a continuum -- but I do not think you can slide from one to the other. Between CD and TS, I believe that there are as many differences as there are similarities. Maybe they are on parallel tracks, but not the same "line". It sounds like you are saying that the "Pink Fog" can "wake up" any CD to a find they are TS. Of course, there are many TS folks who cross dress for a time to try and deal with their issues, but it is more like Methadone than anything else. They don't convert at a certain point. Obviously, I feel that the PF term refers to something that CD's experience some times, not a thing generic to all TG folks.

[kristinacd55]

I think it's different for different people.
Each person has t find the path that's right for them.

That's it in a nutshell!

[Rianna Humble]

It sounds like you are saying that the "Pink Fog" can "wake up" any CD to a find they are TS. Of course, there are many TS folks who cross dress for a time to try and deal with their issues, but it is more like Methadone than anything else. They don't convert at a certain point.

Although I think I understand what you are saying, and I believe it is true that you don't suddenly become Transsexual, I do believe that a number of us saw ourselves as cross-dressers before becoming aware / admitting to ourselves that we are in fact TS.

If I look back over my posts in this forum, they show that I have not always admitted to myself that I am TS, so to a certain extent there was a point where I converted from CD to TS.

I'm not sure I would agree with your methadone analogy, but might perhaps express it that a TS who tries to deal with what's going on by simply cross-dressing is akin to trying to cure a broken arm with not much more than a sticking plaster. It might help a little, but not much.

[CharleneT]

Although I think I understand what you are saying, and I believe it is true that you don't suddenly become Transsexual, I do believe that a number of us saw ourselves as cross-dressers before becoming aware / admitting to ourselves that we are in fact TS.

If I look back over my posts in this forum, they show that I have not always admitted to myself that I am TS, so to a certain extent there was a point where I converted from CD to TS.

I'm not sure I would agree with your methadone analogy, but might perhaps express it that a TS who tries to deal with what's going on by simply cross-dressing is akin to trying to cure a broken arm with not much more than a sticking plaster. It might help a little, but not much.

Yes indeed, there are many triggers that first start to clue us in. As well, it takes a while to admit it to yourself, and certainly there is a tipping point. I was trying to express that the act of CD'ing doesn't convert a person. My case was a long time to understanding and much longer to deal with it. I definitely did some CD'ing The analogy was probably a little too strong. It is hard to express in words (for me at least).

[AKAMichelle]

I wouldn't say that we are women, but we definitely one part woman. We are the blending of 2 sexes into the "IT" crowd. We differ even among ourselves as we are all at different places along the spectrum.

All I know is that I definitely enjoy being Michelle.