GID & The Military

[Ziko]

Hello. I'm almost 23, female, and in the military. I've been a member of this forum for a few months now but haven't posted anything.

Before the military, I was open and out and living life as an androgyne/nullgender/agender/whatever they're calling it these days for almost three years. Then some stuff happened and I went into the military. I thought I'd be cool with it.
I wasn't.

I've been in for a little over a year now, and on some days the dysphoria is terrible, on other days it's not so bad. I've come to realize that I think I'm really an FtM, not an androgyne. Or maybe I'm an androgyne that wants a male body? I'm not sure how that works. Regardless, I just need some help.

I pass in civilian clothes, 100% of the time, as male. Unless I speak. I would pass in uniform too (and sometimes have) but my hair is just long enough that it doesn't fit male regs at all, so that's how most people tell. My voice doesn't pass, but everything else about me does.
I was okay with this until I was outed a few times. Basically people asking me why I didn't try to look more girly if I was so frequently mistook as male. I've wiggled my way out of it without actually saying I'm trans, but it's still an uncomfortable situation.

Right now I know that Tricare won't cover anything. I just looked it up and I am severely disappointed. Right now I'm on the fence... I love the military, but I really can't go on like this. I thought I was okay just corssdressing all the time but I'm not. I don't know where to start to get help. I don't know where to go. If I was a civilian, I could look out specialists or something, but being in the military makes everything so much more difficult.

At this point in time, I've decided to save up 20k or serve out the rest of my term- whichever comes first. If I reach 20k, then I'll re-assess my situation. Am I still dysphoric? Do I hate my life? If so, I'll go to mental health. But if I go to mental health... Will they diagnose me with GID or depression or what? Does anyone have any ideas there? I'm assuming they can throw me out of the military if I have GID. But do they actually diagnose me with GID before I get the boot? I mean, once I'm out, would I be able to use the diagnosis to 'jump start' some other therapy or something in the civilian sector?

If I don't save up 20k in time, or I don't feel like going to mental health when I save 20k, and I instead decide to fill out the rest of my first term (which is four years), about 6 months to the end I'll probably go to mental health and start griping and see what happens. Or I might not. Like I said, I love the military. It sucks that I love it so much, because I want to stay in but this is not mentally very good to me right now... To be like this.

Right now I'm on sea duty. On tuesday (Yes, this tuesday) I go to Japan and go on my first tour. I am thinking that, maybe i I can hold out for four years, I can re-enlist, possibly get some kind of bonus for re-enlistment, then get shore duty, and somehow work something out during shore duty on the side?
What do you guys think??

Really, I am very clueless. I have no idea where I should start in trying to get help with this.

[Ze]

Hi Ziko. Glad to meet another FtM. Unfortunately, I know next to nothing about the protocol of our military, so I can't really help you there. However, I at least wanted to say hi and that you're welcome to look through the transmasculine section to see if you find something that'll help you.

[Ziko]

Thanks for the welcome, Ze.

[Kieron Andrew]

Welcome Ziko, being in the UK i know next to nothing about the US Military but im sure there will be others that can help you out...im sure lots of our mtfs have been in the military at one time or another....welcome to the forum, do check out our section (transmasculine), i know you love the military but if you want to explore your gender more id recommend using whatever card it took to get the hell out...most probably the GID card

[Ziko]

I know I should get out, but I need to just wait it out a little more. I don't want to go back into just minimum wage jobs because the economy sucks. If I can stay in for at least another year I'd be able to get a good paying job in my current field (aviation electronics).

And I am trying to save money as fast as possible so I can have something to fall back on, and also to pursue therapy/HRT/etc. I already have 11k so I've recently passed the halfway point... That's why I'm asking for help now. Before I was just kind of blindly bumbling through and waiting until I had enough money as a safety net in case I got thrown out or something.

[iheartmika]

hi Ziko.

I am a Military wife. My hubby is in the Navy & he just told me about his CDing about a month ago. This is actually something we are dealing with at the moment also. He is trying to decide if he should re enlist after his term is up. He has been in for 3 years now & has 3 years left. He does (so far) want to transition once out of the military, but right now we are just CDing when he isn't at work & not out with the "guys". I am 100% supportive of anything he chooses to do. I actually love it when he dresses en femme. I'm sorry I couldn't be of much help, but I wanted to let you know that there is a MTF CD Wife here that understands where you are coming from. Good luck in Japan. Hubby went there on his last Deployment & he had a blast.

[Andy66]

Hi, Ziko. Sorry I'm not much help with military stuff, but I want to welcome you to this site. I hope you will get things sorted out for the best.

[Marissa]

Hi Ziko, sorry you are having a tough time with being who you want to be.. especially surrounded by a climate that has little leeway in how you conduct yourself.. You will see others who served make comments..please read each and weigh the advice.. it was only towards the end of my long career that i delved into dressing (MtF) but kept it low key so it would not jepeordize my retirement plans.

The last part is what I offer you on your remaining enlistment. Even though some of the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy has been revised, its still carries the possibilities of ending a career or one enlistment. If your not ready for that, then tread softly.. consider all ramifications and see if you can live with that to reach your goal.

Its unfortunate that some hide it in civilian world, but for the military, that was 'standard issue' until about 15 years ago.. and still not always the best thing to open up about.

Now I can't say "agree or disagree" on the military's policy. Time will tell..

It is funny how a female servicemember can go from 32A to 36D or have other nips and tucks due to self-esteem issues.. some do need the emotional help.. others just watch too much 'girls next door'. :D Sorry not being judgmental, just stating what the military will cover.

So please, read ALL of the policies..do research on those who may have said something to a therepist/doctor/supervisor and what the results were.

Good luck with your decision and sorry again with the frustrations of how you feel.. I hope you make the best of your time in service and find what you want afterwards..

Hugs,

[Kathi Lake]

Hi Ziko!

As Kieron said, it seems that many of our MtFs on this board have indeed been in the military - myself among them (almost 30 years of aviation). After reading your posts, I have to say to think long-term. You can still be true to yourself and still be in the military. If you can stay in long enough to secure a civilian job in your existing field (avionics), that would be great! In this economy, a job like that would be quite worth it. Even if you did save up your $20,000 for surgery, hormones, and more, what would you live on if you let this opportunity pass?

If I can pass one thing onto you, it would be the benefit of this phrase, "short-term sacrifice for long-term gain." Learn it. Know it. Live it.

I hate to be stereotypical, but you need to think like a guy on this one - you have a problem. Solve it! Don't worry about how you feel. Solve it!



Kathi

[noeleena]

Hi,

We have a woman who changed on the job in our Navy & has worked well for her this is about 2 / 3 years ago & is high ranking .
I would have had to do the same thing & i have not had any probs after going back to see them ,
You have one of three ways of dealing with this the first as said can you carry on under command,
or leave ,
or go see your C O. & dicuss the matter & with that get advise of the best way to deal with how you go about detal.
You may be surprised how many have carryed on in the ranks & have transistoned. worth looking at .all the best Ziko

...noeleena...

[Victoria Anne]

Ziko I would suggest you tread vert carefully , I am a former Marine and can tell if the Corps had known who I am I would have gotten a section 8 . The "don't ask don't tell' policy may have been altered but it is in reference to gays and lesbians and I do not know if we are even a part of it . I kept my secret while in the Corps . I would earge cation and think carefully as only you can decide and what ever you do decide you can be sure we will be here for you in what way we can.

[Stephenie S]

Dear Zico,

Welcome.

You didn't mention which military you belong to, but I have a good friend, MtF, in the Canadian military. Her military healthcare provided her whole transition cost. Her surgery was this year.

In general, transition (either way) is easier than most of us imagine once you stop thinking about it and decide to actually DO something.

IMPORTANT INFORMATION---:

Transition is an ACTION. It requires you to DO something. Once you internalize that realization, everything else seems to fall into place. The surgery for FtM is quite a bit more extensive than MtF (a year and three separate operations), but is done well by our friend in Montreal. I have personally met two FtM who were VERY happy with their surgical transition.

Hormone therapy will take care of your voice quite nicely (and grow you a delightful new beard).

Despite the increased complexity if the surgery needed, FtM transition is generally less problematic (in terms of success) than is MtF.

I should imagine that transition in the military would be difficult at best, but my friend from Canada is quite happy, and she is staying in the military.

Stephie

[Ziko]

Sorry. I am in the US Navy. As stated in my first post, Tricare (which is the US Military's healthcare) will not cover anything regarding transition, Gender Identity disorder, or any sort of sexually-related "dysfunction".

Likewise, Don't Ask Don't Tell... I'm not sure on the specifics regarding crossdressing, but I was under the impression it was covered as "Don't do it openly".

Furthermore, once you are diagnosed with GID, you are thrown out of the US Military as a medical discharge. GID falls under 'mental illness' and it's very unlikely they would keep you in.

So, transitioning in the military is completely impossible. At least with the military as it is now, anyway.

Thank you everyone for your help anyway...

[Billijo49504]

I would be very careful of doing any thing now. Save your money and be ready for when you getout, then go to the VA health center and see what help you can get. Be very careful of getting a less than honorable discharge. It will follow you til hell freezes over...BJ

[Stephanie-L]

Ziko,
Welcome to the forum, I hope you can find some of the answers you seek here. As a Navy healthcare provider, I can tell you that you are right, if you reveal your GID to anyone, your CO, A healthcare provider, etc, you will be discharged. Only you can answer the question of how long to hang on. If you can finish your enlistment there is hope as some have had help from the Veteran's Administration as far as hormones, counselling, and other transition issues. Also of course, it gives you a marketable job and looks much better on the resume than being discharged for "mental health" issues. As I said, only you can answer the question of if you can hang on until then. And remember, you are released from active service in three years, you still have 2 more years of inactive reserve service after that. Be very careful and hang in there. Try very hard not to cause problems in other areas, if there is an investigation for other reasons, things with your GID can come to light. Good luck and I hope you enjoy your time in Japan (Yokosuka I presume). Everyone I know who spent time there really liked it. If there is anything we can do for you please do not hesitate to ask.....Stephanie (LT, USNR)

[Ziko]

Thanks for your advice.
I have four more years - my contract was 5 total.
I'm actually going to Sasebo, Japan. I'm on a forward deployed LHD as ship's company. Part of the Gator Navy.
I'm not sure if that makes things better or worse when it comes to this sort of thing.

I do know that my particular workstation has 3 people normally (including myself) and that when we go out, the marines come in and then we have about 10 people.

With less people, I think that could be better. The people I've spoken with (over email) have seemed good so far. But there's no telling if they're homophobes or whatever until they actually see me.

The command I'm at right now, I've felt pretty unsafe at, in regards to gender identity and sexuality. But the command before this one was extremely accepting, and didn't really care at all.
Hopefully the ship will be as accepting.

[Myojine]

are you the person i know from the Gaia Forums?!!?!!?!?!?!


Well a month or two ago i posted about how my command found out that i have gender issues. some how it got out and now im up for being discharged. not becuase of battalion, not because of anyone in my Chain of Chain of command but becuase of some other soldiers in my unit have made a complaint about it.
I am now required to split train(away from the unit) and will now be unable to deploy or be able to be sent for any active duty assigments or even Training.

Before the military, I was open and out and living life as an androgyne/nullgender/agender/whatever they're calling it these days for almost three years. Then some stuff happened and I went into the military. I thought I'd be cool with it.
I wasn't.

I was similar, being MtF i woudl always sorta interphase myself inbetween being rather feminate and dressing up(never make up, i didnt need it), but would turn back to being maleish when i got depressed.

Heres my Advice
DONT SEEK ANY HELP WHAT SO EVER FROM THE MILITARY ABOUT THIS.
if you so mention anything at all that suicide and severe depression it can make you non deployable, and suicide reasons HAVE TO BE EXPLAINED to the chain of command. and you NEVER know how they are going to react.

Once you get back off of seaduty, go to a private thearpist, and stuff like that cant be reported, keep if off the books, you have goverment paid healthcare, and the military wont ask questions.

Like I said, I love the military. It sucks that I love it so much, because I want to stay in but this is not mentally very good to me right now... To be like this.

i agree with this, I Love the military, was the first thing in my life to make me feel like i have reason and worth. the first time i could hold my head up high and feel good about myself.
And if MEPS doenst say anything about it when i go back after my SRS and everthing. Im going to get back into the army.

As for my expieriance
At least for mine, the person who i talked to beleived i wasnt telling her everything and that i was questionable. There was apparently a person before me, a FtM who got discharged so she could transition to male.

I know from experiance how difficult it is for transgender to deal with this issues. the luck of the draw for you though is that a female is far more excepted as being strong and manish(masculine) EXPECIALLY in the military.
For them id would be a surprise, but not completely unexpected for you to chop your hair off. Military is sorta a Boys Club still. depending on how many females to males there are on board the ship, it would be awakward.
Forgive me but i dont know the navy word, but if you make your actions seem more "HOOAH" and objective to being a soldier you would be less "supiscious"
if someone asks you Why did you cut your hair tell em "Was getting in the ****in way and was pissin me off"
I know theres a few females in the army that get right in line with the guys when it comes to hair cuts. *dont marine females get thier hair cut? or is that a myth?*

As for Active duty pay what pay grade are you? If you live "Meanially" for a military person you could save up quite a bit of money pretty fast even as an E-3 and E-4. i mean the ships (gally?) food cant be that bad...

Yeah Tricare wont pay for shit becuase stuff like this is still considered "Optional" and "a life style choise"

whatabuncha bullshit.

This problem shoudl be indentified as a Severe Depression and possibly Life threatening(31%suicide rate i believe?) BUT CURABLE!!! "Condition"

[Ziko]

are you the person i know from the Gaia Forums?!!?!!?!?!?!

Yes.

Well a month or two ago i posted about how my command found out that i have gender issues. some how it got out and now im up for being discharged...

Shit. I'm sorry. I missed this.
Best of luck to you...

Heres my Advice
DONT SEEK ANY HELP WHAT SO EVER FROM THE MILITARY ABOUT THIS.
if you so mention anything at all that suicide and severe depression it can make you non deployable, and suicide reasons HAVE TO BE EXPLAINED to the chain of command. and you NEVER know how they are going to react.

That's why I was waiting it out, at least until I had 20k. In case I got discharged, I'd have money. One of my classmates at A school had depression (Marine) and a friend in the air force also got diagnosed with Depression. Neither of them are being discharged, so it's sort of up in the air (as far as depression by itself goes) but I know the odds are against me. So I was going to wait it out until I atleast had 20k in the bank.

Once you get back off of seaduty, go to a private thearpist, and stuff like that cant be reported, keep if off the books, you have goverment paid healthcare, and the military wont ask questions.

Well I actually had a question about that. Can I go to the Chaplain? I know they don't have to report suicidal thoughts (I don't think..) But do they have to report gender stuff? Or if you're coming to them about being homosexual or something? I was thinking maybe I could feel out the waters that way.

if someone asks you Why did you cut your hair tell em "Was getting in the ****in way and was pissin me off"
I know theres a few females in the army that get right in line with the guys when it comes to hair cuts. *dont marine females get thier hair cut? or is that a myth?*

I pass extremely well. I came into the military passing pretty well. This is me in A School. There was no sudden change, and everyone knows I look like a dude. I think it's kind of weird how not many people have seen it as suspicious. I mean, there are even people who don't even think I'm a dyke or anything. It's pretty 50/50 on how many females there are that are super feminine vs guy-looking. I've had a few people ask me questions about why I look the way I do. It's uncomfortable, but generally my answer is something like "I feel like I get treated better" (in regards to not correcting people when they call me 'sir' ) and "I'm not going to put my hair in a bun everyday, that's stupid." (in regards to my hair only).


Honestly, for whatever reason I don't normally pass in uniform at all, so a lot of military folk are completely oblivious. I was out with a co-worker last weekend paintballing and I was passing the entire time as male. He couldn't understand why they thought I was a guy. -shrugs-

As far as marine females go, yes- they do get their hair cut. But their regulations are a lot more, er, stringent. So they're not allowed to get high and tights or anything. So most of them don't look like males because of that.

As for Active duty pay what pay grade are you? If you live "Meanially" for a military person you could save up quite a bit of money pretty fast even as an E-3 and E-4. i mean the ships (gally?) food cant be that bad...

I'm an e-3 right now but I'm taking the advancement test in september. People say I'll get e-4 but I'm not holding my breath. As for money, yes, I've got it down. I've only been in a year and I already have 11k in liquid assets.

Thanks for the help.

[Myojine]

LOL at the picture
made me laugh

In honesty its gonna be so much easier for you then it is for me. you can appear male and people MIGHT take a second glance and those you get is "Tomboy" "Pfft that girls a dude" *tell me if im wrong* but im sure youve heard lots of them already.

but for an MtF, i have to watch every little thing i do, i mean EVERY LITTLE THING. from walking to even smoking a ****in ciggarrette.
Yes i had someone tell me "you better hold that ****in ciggerette a litte bit more manly"
make one wrong move that even remotely looks gay/feminine on purpose, and instantly your GAY/HOMO ,and yeah somg guys make "fag jestures"(forgive the word) to bull shit with each other, cuase they think its funny.
i used to get shit all the time for my laugh, cause blatently i got a high pitched squeakly laugh that franking sounds like a girl, and as one of my buddies said "you sound like my wife when she laughs"
but now... people dont say a damn thing...
can you guess why?

The Chaplain HAS to report suicidal intentions and can send you for an evaluation. and from there shit can roll Uphill, and then it comes back down.
dont talk to anyone in the military about it.

E-4 is practically handed out in the army, i dont know about the navy, but ill get my E-4 just by waiting if i dont get discharged first.

Everyone in my Section is ok with it, they dont have a problem, they dont even care. im a good soldier and despite my "Issues" im a part of their team.
But Captains words over a SSG anyday.

[Ziko]

LOL at the picture
made me laugh

Took it for some kid's project on how appearances can be deceiving. xD

i left that transtastic thread becuase de kelly whoever is an enomourus prick/dick/jackass ect. and that motherBleeper is still there so i gave up.

He recently quit Gaia forever, so if you want to come back, everything's safe now.

In honesty its gonna be so much easier for you then it is for me. you can appear male and people MIGHT take a second glance and those you get is "Tomboy" "Pfft that girls a dude" *tell me if im wrong* but im sure youve heard lots of them already.

but for an MtF, i have to watch every little thing i do, i mean EVERY LITTLE THING. from walking to even smoking a ****in ciggarrette.
Yes i had someone tell me "you better hold that ****in ciggerette a litte bit more manly"
make one wrong move that even remotely looks gay/feminine on purpose, and instantly your GAY/HOMO ,and yeah somg guys make "fag jestures"(forgive the word) to bull shit with each other, cuase they think its funny.

Actually, I haven't gotten any shit at all. But I think that's because I never bring any attention to it. I don't complain about being called a guy, I don't complain about being called girl things, I don't use the bathrooms when military people are around (off-base. I pass too well now to use female civilian restrooms).
The only thing I've gotten is "Why do you dress like a guy?" really. If I never bring attention to how I look, nobody assumes anything malicious. I guess it helps that I don't care how I'm referred (pronouns, that is) in real life. The only thing that pisses me off is when people use my full, legal first name. But even then it doesn't immediately get assumed I'm queer, because a lot of people dislike their first names, and we're all used to being called our last names anyway.

I'm rather surprised how well it has worked out for me (reception-wise), and I know a lot of it has to do with the fact that females are generally accepted as being allowed to want to be men, but I've never actually SAID anything about wanting to be a man, or wanting to be treated differently, or anything like that. I'm very laissez-faire about the whole thing, and I think that's an advantage I have because if I made a big deal about it (or really, any deal at all) I'm sure I'd get picked on or hated a lot more.

If I were male though and trying to be MtF, I know that would suck major ass. I think it might be a little better in the Navy, since we have this massive gay stereotype anyway. But there's still a ton of sexism each of us have to deal with. Being in the army, you're expected to go out there and essentially kill people, so I can see why you'd be called out on it. I'm really sorry.

But there's one thing to look forward to: MtF surgeries are basically perfect. FtM bottom surgery still is pretty sucky. If I fully transitioned, I doubt I'd be able to go back into the military without my genitals being a dead giveaway.

The Chaplain HAS to report suicidal intentions and can send you for an evaluation. and from there shit can roll Uphill, and then it comes back down.
dont talk to anyone in the military about it.

Ouch. My memory sucks ass, then.

E-4 is practically handed out in the army, i dont know about the navy, but ill get my E-4 just by waiting if i dont get discharged first.

Navy works a lot like the Air Force. E-1 through E-3 is time based, or you can be advanced early through college credits/recruiting people/ROTC/etc. I've been E-3 since I got in since I have an associate's degree.

E-4 and above for us is based on availability of the rate(job), a paper test we take, and our evals.

[Ze]

But there's one thing to look forward to: MtF surgeries are basically perfect. FtM bottom surgery still is pretty sucky. If I fully transitioned, I doubt I'd be able to go back into the military without my genitals being a dead giveaway.

Very, very true. It's something I wasn't going to bring up for the time being because you already have enough on your plate.

However, it seems FtM bottom surgery is somewhat moving along, as you can see here. (Courtesy of Felix, who will be going through this soon and has friends that already have.)

But despite how positive progress is getting, the scars on the skin (arms, thighs, etc) can still be a dead giveaway.

[Myojine]

Very, very true. It's something I wasn't going to bring up for the time being because you already have enough on your plate.

However, it seems FtM bottom surgery is somewhat moving along, as you can see here. (Courtesy of Felix, who will be going through this soon and has friends that already have.)

But despite how positive progress is getting, the scars on the skin (arms, thighs, etc) can still be a dead giveaway.

dont worry guys itll get better soon. like you said male to female is almost perfect im sure there will soon be more focus on female to male.

[Teri Jean]

Hi Ziko it is good to see a great guy here that is serving his country, thank you. Now I cannot talk for the ladies here that have or are serving but welcome. Teri USN 67-71

[Kitty Sue]

hey there. I hope things work out for you whatever you may decide is best for you. It can be hard I know. I did two years in the navy and have been in the army for almost 17 years.

Thanks so much for serving.

[Marissa]

Ziko, I am glad that you are receiving so many responses and more to come to assist you in anyway possible.. Yes, US military is very different then others around the world.. we are not as open..

It would have been great if a therepist/friends/pastor/family.. anyone who could have shared with you the obstacles that the military would give you.. this is in no way to say that you shouldn't be in the military.. just from reading your commitment, I would have been honored to have you in my command.

But as regulations are (were) ours to follow, until changed, I would concur on being very careful what you share with coworkers/military friends/chain of command. What you say or do, can be used if anyone has an objection and makes a report. And remember, emails leave a trail as always noted in trials and investigations.

Yes, Chaplains are there for support and guidance but they also have a commitment to the military service and are required to reports certain statements made. Especially suicide, hurting someone, hurting yourself, and possibly homosexuality.

So are therepist to a certain degree.. so this may seem 180 from what another advised.. if you ever feel depressed enough to hurt you or others..TELL SOMEONE!!! Even if it could hurt your military service.. course you can chose the words to say..but you can get help..

Nothing to do with dressing, but I had issues and wanted to 'feel' the pain. I told my supervisor.. saw family services, admitted to hospital 'ward' for observation and therepist. Followup visits..and my career continued to retire as an E-8. No ramifications.. including my security clearance, which i know you have to worry as I was an AT also.

I even went to see a therepist before I went to Iraq to prepare myself and assits others that I led, since I was going through the same issues as years before. It made me stronger and aware to assist others..and myself.

There is no way I could imagine what you are going through..being committed to serving your country and 'needing' to transition to feel complete. But I do know how it feels when the walls start closing in. That is why i say get help when the signs are there.

You have alot to think about.. you are not alone so reach out to others but be careful.

Hugs and wishing you the best..