Is this all just a fantasy?

[laceyjessica]

About a month ago my wife said she watched Private Practice and there was a husband who was closeted gay, and also married with a child, apparently happy with gay partner and lifestyle and always miserable at home. The wife approached him and asked if he would be happier on his own to live the life he really wanted instead of a lie. Well my wife asked me if I would be a happier person on my own being whatever it is I want to be, that maybe being able to crossdress would make me happier because basically I am miserable around the house with her and the kids. Let me preface by stating that when we went to therapy for me being a cross dresser the only reason we didn’t separate is my wife and therapist agreed to boundaries that I would only be allowed bra and panty, no dressing up going out, makeup, etc Well as you can see from my pick I love to dress as a woman my dream is to go out dressed as Jessica. I started to answer my wife if I would be happier by saying I didn’t know, Maybe I should get totally done up and go out as Jessica to see what it is like and to see if that would make me happy, before I ended my sentence she got upset and said you remember the boundaries right, no more than bras' and panties( and she is not even ok with that, doesn’t approve of any of it matter of fact said would have never married me if she had know) she was really persistent about wanting to know if I wanted to move out and be on my own, so I asked if she was seeing someone, her comment was that she hadn’t been looking, and left it at that, I asked if she would like to find a man she said she didn’t have the time nor the desire after dealing with me and my issues. Well new years eve came and she said 2011 she was ready to make some changes to be happier, she said I needed to find my happy place wherever that is and made some comment about maybe I would like to be with a man(talk about left field). All this time I don’t know how to answer her because I often wonder if this is all just a fantasy, I love to dress, I don’t know how to do makeup that well, my pics were from professional photographer, I have never gone out 100% as Jessica, I am a little bi curious. Just curious on everyone’s thoughts. I sometime wish I was on my onw to dress as I would like mostly femme, to be able to go out as Jessica, just to enjoy my femme side. I just cant help to think that if I did jump and leave and the opposite happened then I would be left with no family and never persue being Jessica. Not sure just what to do Sorry if I rambled trying to fit allot in without loosing you.

[Kathi Lake]

Jessica,

Short answer is that your wife seems to know you more than you do. She knows what you really want, and it doesn't seem to be her. Wives always know when they're "second place" in our lives. I think you need to look inside yourself and wonder what would make you truly happy. By the way, you do realize that you can be bi-curious without the dressing, right? You don't need to find a convenient "excuse" for it.

Kathi

[NicoleScott]

Sounds like you agreed to terms you can't live with.

[laceyjessica]

Hi Kathy, that is what I am not sure of, would I be truely happy dressing anytime I wanted presenting more often as Jessica or is it just a huge fantasy, I read about you and other girls going on flights, out dressed to events, to the makeup store to the local bank etc and I want to do that but I just feel trapped, that in order for me to evevn attempt all of that with my wifes aproval would never happen, she basically said if I wanted more that the boundaries and if that would make me happy in life then I would have to do it separated from the family, and thats where i get stuck because I dont know if I would enjoy it more until I experience it I am in a catch 22. About being bi you right I think more about the possibility of being with say a *******

Nicole I never agreed to the terms the therapist and wife presented this to me as the only way my wife would stay,

[Kathi Lake]

Then you, Jessica, are at a crossroads. One way leads to possible happiness - a life where you can do what you want, free of any constraints - but also free of your wife and family.

The other way is the way you're living right now. You have to ask yourself if it is worth losing everything you now have for possible happiness.

And again, stop making excuses. If you're bi, then you're bi. It doesn't make it any different if you're with a ******* or a genetic male. I know you don't want to look at that part of your life - whether you're "The 'G' word" or not - but wanting to be with a man is wanting to be with a man, no matter how it - and they - are packaged.

So, decision time, Jess! Make a good one!

Kathi

[laceyjessica]

thanks Kathi

[Evildawn]

in my opinion i think that not being able to dress the way you want for an extended period of time has probably left you with alot of pent up urges to do just that. some of us want to dress all day every day, some of us only dress on occasion, some like to convincingly portray the role of a woman, and some like to look like a man in womans clothes. the one thing we all have in common though is that we are what we are and we like what we like not by choice but by an act of nature.

in hindsight you probably should of been open with your wife about this before you got married. yes i know theres the fear of not being accepted to hold you back, but if someone doesnt accept you then are they truely the one you want to spend your life with. maybe cross dressing isnt a big enough part of your life for you to make life altering decisions based on it. thats really something youll have to figure out for yourself as none of us here can really say to leave your wife and kids or to stay with them.

maybe you could use a personal vacation to see just how into this you are? im not sure its a sensitive issue.

i myself once went through a similar bi-curious stage. where i wondered hey maybe im attracted to men and thats why i want to look like a woman. i even experimented with a gay friend of mine just to see, then i realized that simply wasnt the case. in fact i am so unattracted to men that the only time i find myself attractive and thus am happy is when i look like a woman.

[kimdl93]

I'd suggest going to a counselor for yourself first. If, after a lengthy and honest self appraisal to decide where your marriage fits in your priorities. If its important to you, then you need to have a second series of counseling sessions with your wife to work out a balance that is both respectful to her and of you.

As for the sexual curiosity, as Kathy says, bi is bi, CD is CD. One doesn't necessarily influence the other. that's something you can discuss with your therapist in private, but my hunch is that its not particularly important to you, or frankly, you'd have done it by now.

[Kate Simmons]

Actually, we are the only real part of it all. The rest is what the fantasy is.

[julia ann]

Jessica, it sounds like,similar to myself, that crossdressing is one cog in the wheel of an un-happy marriage. If your wife is ready to let you go so "you can be happy" it seems she would also be happier. Crossdressing is a very conveinient excuse to use so that blame for a problem marriage is dumped totally on the husband. Maybe try going out and spreading your wings alittle before you leave and test the waters. Whats the worst reaction you could get from her?, she tells you to leave. Seems you may already be at that point.

[suchacutie]

I would agree that some therapy sessions by yourself would be a very good idea. There seems to be a lot of confusion and pent up frustration. This is a serious choice and should not be made alone, nor in a state of confusion/frustration. Your household is clearly in an uproar, and that's not a good environment in which to make a serious decision.

just my 2 cents.

tina

[LilSissyStevie]

My experience with people making ultimatums is that they want you to fail. That way they can pass the blame for what ever happens off onto you. The whole bra and panties but not stockings or slips ("Wear a slip and you're outta here, pal!!!") just seems like the sort of arbitrary line in the sand that she feels you will eventually cross and then she's off the hook. My guess is that if you don't cross the line she'll eventually move it until it's intolerable for you. Maybe it already is and you haven't accepted it yet. It sounds like she has already decided that it's intolerable for her. To be honest, she has every right to find it intolerable. That would be true even if she knew about your CDing before your marriage. People change. It sucks, get used to it.

If your relationship eventually breaks up over this, it's not the end of the world. My divorce from my first wife was devastating to me (mostly because it wasn't my idea) but it turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me. I see her today at birthdays and holiday family get togethers and a wave of joy comes over me that we are not together any longer. What was I thinking?

Is it all a fantasy? There is no way of knowing what might happen if all the constraints were removed. The only reasonable thing you can do is decide if you can tolerate the situation you're in and go from there.

[laceyjessica]

Thanks Evildawn, I agree I should have been open then maybe I would be dressing 24/7 and happy now, I really do feel I would enjoy dressing everyday and being womanly but if I couldnt pass comfortably in public that would hider me as well, I loved the makeover I had done I would have never expected the potential to be a woman was there, I do see jessica in those pics, the personal vacation would be fine if i could without wife knowing, or just going out as Jessica but she made it clear when we talked that if I am crossing the initial boundaries she set she and the kids are leaving.

Thanks Kim, I agree I am in counseling again unknow to my wife this time, so far the therapist says I am leaning towards wanting to be able to be Jessica more and more as I get older. Part of this whole thing is I am afraid to accept things are going this way even though are very exciting. The though of dressing as Jessica and going out doing daily things is such a dream. The bi part I agree, my attraction seems to be more with ******** than a male, I personally do think I could be with a male but a ******* or another TG excites me.

Thanks Denise, I just keep thinking maybe the thought of being able to successfully be jessica in public is a fantasy. I would love to see it as a reality, but we all know how horrible society is.

Thanks Julia Ann, I think your on to something, part of me would be devistated but at the same time if she found a man that can be 100% man for her I would be happy, I wish i traveled for business or did mini vacations on my own so that I could give this a try, deep down I think I would love it the icing on the cake would be if I presented as a woman for the most part in public.

Thanks Tina I know and expecially with me not being the happiest person it is hard on the kids as well. My problem lately is that I tend to hope wife and kids go out for the evening so I can stay home and enjoy being Jessica. Its sad to say but they went out on new years eve for a little bit and wife made comments all the families were there except me. And all I could thing of is how thanksful I was that for 3 hours I could dress and enjoy being Jessica on new years eve, wish I would have gone to a part dressed but I take what I can get. as I get older the desire to dress is becoming stronger and I am becoming more selfish with my free time I love to dress

[laceyjessica]

Thanks Stevie, I hate to say I think your right but I think you may be on to something. She says things like when I asked her what she wanted for Christmas this year her comment was a massage at a salon and a real man to be with for an evening following that up with because I dont want to be with her. I sometimes think we both would be so much happier apart but it tears me up inside that the kids will be sad. But then again that would only be temporary I suppose if we werent together fighting all the time they may enjoy it as well. I am curious do you go out dressed now, shave body manicure pedicure all of that????

[DonnaT]

I was going to ask, but your last post seems to have given me the answer already, and that is, it doesn't sound like you are in a happy marriage, and are just staying "for the kids."

Your wife seems to be trying to push your buttons, so you'll agree to a separation, or at least a "trial" separation.

You might want to check with a divorce lawyer, and explain what's going on, to find out where you'd stand if you did agree to a trial separation. It could help you sort your feelings. Of course, it gives your wife the same opportunities.

[SIZE=+2][SIZE=-1]A trial separation agreement is usually limited to a relatively short period of time in the range of 60 to 90 days. It recognizes that husband and wife are living apart, but does not create a formal separation, and does not begin the 1 year clock running. The spouse who has left the marital home may return to the home at any time. The agreement provides that neither spouse will use the separation as a basis for a claim of desertion, abandonment, or constructive desertion. It does contain agreements relating to how family expenses will be paid and how children will be provided and cared for. The primary purpose of a trial separation is to allow the spouses to live apart for a relatively short period of time in order to assess the marital situation in a less stressful environment.

http://www.famia.org/d-med-ap.htm#Tr...ationAgreement[/SIZE][/SIZE]

[joandher]

Why not try going to a motel for the weekend,and do your own thing, even a couple of W/Ends and see how you feel after ???

that way you can see for yourself the reality of living alone

hugs J-JAY

[carhill2mn]

Hi Jessica. I have read your post and the replies several times trying to get a "feel" for your situation. Unfortunately, this is not a simple situation thus, no simple answer. I did not see anything re: how long you have been married; how long your wife has "known"; the ages of your children; your job/financial situation. IMHO these and other factors all play a role in trying to determine what is best for your family and you.

Yes, as of now, your ideas re: Jessica are, in part, fantasy. You need to evaluate the pros and cons of your choices. There is a price associated with any decision that you make. Are you willing to pay that price? The caution here is to go into any decision with your eyes open, so to speak.

One thing that seems to be missing in what I have read is any mention of any real love between you and your wife. Do either of you really want this marriage to "work"? Or is personal happiness the objective for each of you? I do not see how either of you can be happy under the current circumstances. Unfortunately, I do not see any real hope of either of you being able to accept what the other spouse needs/wants. At best, one spouse will acquiese to the other's wishes and, as a result, be resentful and unhappy.

Perhaps, you and your new counselor can reach a decision that will work for you.

I wish you the best of luck!

[laceyjessica]

Thanks Donna...I would have to say we are both trying to stay for the kids, the marraige has been hit hard since she found out about the crossdressing and the thing of it is she thinks its just a bra and panty thing, seriously if she saw my pics or my wardrobe for that fact that would be the end

Thanks J-Jay I would love to do that as much as we dont spend time together she gets supicious if I am gone for too long a period, like if I am late coming home from work, she accuses me of going shopping(which 9times out of 10 I am) I tried to bring up the subject of maybe trying to go out totally femme and she cut me off and reminded me of the boundaries of no more than bra and panties

Thanks for the reply Carol, we have been married 14 years she has know for 9, we have two children 9 and 12, and were both employed. I try to evaluate the pros and cons of being Jessica and of course all of the pretty things and frills and going out enfemme are so exciting to me, being able to pass as well as a 6' 205lb cd'r can. I am not sure on the love, I think I love the though of being femme(sad to admit). I think were both scared to make a move, it would be nice to see her happy and me happy enfemme, I just have a feeling that if we divorce she will get angry and tell the whole world about Jessica, which at that point not sure if I would care, I honestly am always angry unless I am alone to dress(that is when I am happiest) but given that chance will that too get old, I dont know I have been dressing over 38 yrs guess in a way it doesnt get old just seems to be getting more intense as I get older, I think about the possibilities of going out enfemme 24/7, and thats exciting, but I am also 44 and have never gone out. A few weeks ago i put on bra panties garter hose heels slip blouse womans flared jeans and heels but no makeup and no wig and covered my blouse with my mans sweatshirt thats the closest I have come to going out.

[Michael]

Myself, and I'm sure most of the people here have struggled and suffered with this kind of problem to a great degree, and frankly I am about sick of it.
The lack of acceptance and understanding of people in general should not condemn me or others to being alone, or being looked down on, or being in a bad relationship, where you have to hide who you are and suppress yourself.

I get it that most people just don't understand crossdressers, but if someone doesn't understand black people, does this mean they can be racist?
If men just don't understand how women tick, does this mean they can be as misogynistic as they like?
Are people who just don't get homosexuals free to be homophobes?
Is anyone free to be small-minded and act with hatred or contempt towards people because they just don't want to accept what they are?
Obviously, no.

Many crossdressers run into the trap of having to lie to their wives or girlfriends or family about themselves, and then they can be accused of it when the truth comes out later. They are made to feel like they are terrible deceivers. But how many women would remain interested in you if you told them all about your feminine tendencies on the second date?
How many women would even consider you if they met you when you were dressed?
Virtually none.

We live in an extremely sexist society, where women are free to express many aspects of masculinity but men are definitely not free to express femininity. It's got to change.

[Marissa]

Jessica, I wanted to start off by saying that no matter what advice/experiences are given.. it will rest solely on your shoulders as to what your future will be in respects to living out 'your dream' at the cost of a marriage..or put all away in some dark closet with a possibility of 'adapting' to a continued life of being unhappy or rekindling some lost spark to renew your marriage and live as your wife desires. To be the MAN that she wants.

You are putting a lot of thought and worries about going out dressed and passing..with a clear jealousy of those who have experienced it, which is understandable but you have other things to solve before that should be in the forefront. Wishing you had a job that includes traveling or able to get away from family so you can experience more of Jessica, to include going out. You even sacrificed an evening that normally is celebrated with family so you can grab 3 hours of satisfaction.

What would happen if your wife learned of the reason you stayed home? What if you did travel or spend a weekend in a hotel and your wife found out the reason?

Will the result of your gratification be worth the emotional explosion that is sure to come from her..and she will gladly share her feelings with family/friends and the court system (normally not a factor for the courts unless it affects children negativelly but sure is embarrassing).

And who knows what is in her mind for the new year...has she finally come to terms that she does need a MAN to satisfy her in the manner she desires..and then what is the next step for her?

Okay, I"ll stop with the what ifs..

Maybe you need to just ask yourself, can you give it all up? Even the boundaries that are set..and be the manly man that she married? Until death do you part??????

Given what you have said, it doesn't seem she is happy with the boundaries anyway. So maybe you need to come to terms on what you want or willing to accept.. dressing = no wife or no dressing = wife

If dressing is the only issues with the marriage, it is surprising.. in some cases, it is only a part of muliple issues. Eitherway, they can be worked on and maybe come to a happy resoluion..or end a marriage. Good luck on your future.

Marissa

[LilSissyStevie]

I sometimes think we both would be so much happier apart but it tears me up inside that the kids will be sad. But then again that would only be temporary I suppose if we werent together fighting all the time they may enjoy it as well. I am curious do you go out dressed now, shave body manicure pedicure all of that????

My kids told me after we split up that they were so much happier with us apart. Even though my wife and I didn't yell and scream at each other all the time, there was always an oppressive air of hostility between us that negatively affected the children. I ended up with custody of the kids since my wife went back to drugs and drinking after the divorce. So I got to be a single "mom" for a few years. I should mention that CDing had nothing to do with our problems. She never knew and I didn't do it much while we were married. My current wife only has two request concerning my dressing - that I don't go out where people we know could clock me and that the the kids don't know about it. I think those are reasonable requests and I agree with them. In fact, even though I could go out in some other town and she has even offered to go with me, I don't have any inclination to go out at all. It would be quite a spectacle if I did since I'm not the usual CDer. I shave head to toe, underdress, paint my toenails etc. My wife encourages me and she buys me girly things. But I keep it at home with her.

As far a being bi-curious goes. I'm not attracted to males or tgirls in any mode (anymore) but I do see GGs all the time that strike my fancy. I'll tell you what I do: nothing. And that's the way it's going to be as long as I'm commited to a monogamous relationship.

[Stephanie Anne]

I was all ready to type how I can see your wife's point but honestly I can't. This sounds like a lack of communication and compromise on both ends.

If I were married and my husband admitted after years he wanted to cross dress or to transition, I would accept it but I would be worried he would not want me anymore. I'm a sucker for monogamy. One thing I would do is talk it out and not give ultimatums. The only thing I can see is the feeling of betrayal for not confiding that part of their life form the start.

[abigailf]

Jessica,

Where to start? It seems the content of this thread touched on quite a bit of stuff. I guess the common element is “more Jessica time”. So, with that.

Understand that if you want to keep your family together, it will take some time before you can expect more Jessica time. You need to be patient.

Therapy by yourself is a good start. Make sure the therapist is experienced with transgendered people. It makes a world of difference. Also, any therapist worth anything will never tell you what to do. If they do, dump them and find another. They should only guide you by spelling out options and possible outcomes and by informing you what is normal through their experience.

Next, ask yourself. Do you love your wife? Take the issues, arguments and negative feelings about cross dressing off the table and answer that question. Don’t let your anger towards her for not letting you dress obstruct the true answer to that question. If the answer is yes, then you need to find out if she still loves you. If so, then it is up to you to do whatever you can to make it work. More on that to follow. As a father (I read you have kids and that makes you a father by your own choice and actions) you are responsible to provide a loving, happy and non-hostile home for your kids. If you cannot achieve that by living there, then one of you need to leave it. Be prepared for that as a possible end.

Okay now that the tough stuff is out of the way. Your wife is most likely still upset for being deceived. That will last a long time and the emotions from it will be around for awhile. You both need time for that to heal.

There are several reasons why you never told her up front. Most likely, one of them is because you never really knew it yourself. Sure you dressed and stuff, but in your mind it was just a fetish. Only later in life when the urges got stronger and you realize it was not “just a fetish” did you decide to tell her. She needs to understand this. It can help her to tolerate the deception much easier. If that is not the reason, then figure out the reasons why and get her to understand them.

Gay or not, you are married and not likely to have sex with another man than another woman. Get over it, you are married, it was in your vows and a solemn promise. A person is only as good as their word, don’t break yours. Most likely your bi tendencies are a manifestation of wanting to be accepted as a girl. Pick up a magazine with the hottest male hunk and masturbate to it. What! You can’t. That’s because you are not bi or gay. If you can, well, you are married with kids, abstain. (This is a personal preference so you handle as you feel is right)

Okay, now for the hard part. You should take a step back. As much as it will hurt (and I know it will hurt) step back, at least for a short while. She needs a break and needs to know that you are willing to make this work. Once she gets that perspective, then you can start moving forward again.

The three most important things needed to move forward: communicate, communicate and communicate. You need to talk and talk often. There will be lots of crying at first, but that will get better.

Once you can talk about “it” without a ton of emotion, then you are ready to start talking about more. Explain that bras and panties are not what you are about and being Jessica is. That you need time to be Jessica in order for you to be a good father and husband. Discuss your fears and her fears. Comfort her and ensure her that those fears are not justified (if they are not). Talk about how you feel from day to day and how she feels. Work together to figure out how to address the feelings so they will work for everyone.

If she persists in being resistant to change, then it is possible she is not the right woman for your family and you may need to go your separate ways. However, even the most stubborn person can be reasoned with given the right amount of time an words. So keep trying, that’s what girls do.

Some final thoughts.

Like you, I would love to go off and live as Abigail everyday all the time. I would even transition, but I am a dad and my kids rely on their dad. So I need to work with my wife so I can be both dad and Abigail. It is not easy for us, but it gets better every day.

By the way, men tend to be more selfish then woman. In my mind, leaving my family to be Abigail would be a selfish act and not very womanly or motherly. The most motherly thing I could do for my children is to stay home and make this work no matter how painful it becomes. Fortunately, my wife sees the pain I am going through and accepts much of Abigail. She has come a long way in 18 months.

Sorry for the novel, I think I like to hear myself type.

[curiousrabbit]

Why is the wife always the 2ndary consideration? Like a pet dog or something... going along with whatever the other person feels they want.

If she isn't happy. If you aren't happy. Get a divorce (really easy to do). Move on with your lives and find what DOES make you happy (both of you, her included).

It's fine if you want to explore other things in life. No problem if you want to date a couple guys and see if that is a fit. It only becomes an issue when you are dragging other UNWILLING people along with you (by sneaking around their backs and whatever else).

Seriously, being single isn't the end of the world (I'm single, pretty easy).

By the way, men tend to be more selfish then woman. In my mind, leaving my family to be Abigail would be a selfish act and not very womanly or motherly. The most motherly thing I could do for my children is to stay home and make this work no matter how painful it becomes.

What the heck?! You think just sticking around "for the children" as it becomes painful for you and your partner is the "unselfish" thing? ....Uhh....no? It isn't good for you, it isn't good for your children, it isn't good for your pet goldfish.

Splitting up doesn't mean you just dump the kids on the side of the road. You can still BOTH see the kids (like adults?) and actually leave on good terms (again, adult thing). It is a lot more important that the parents are happy, because that will transfer to the kids more than anything.

If both parents are visiting the kids and spending time with them and are truly happy, the kids will be MORE than fine (even if both parents aren't living in the same house).

People need to move on with their lives... being happy isn't hard.

[Kaz]

Why is the simple answer "divorce"?... I don't get Americans... easy come easy go, everything is a commodity... get real! When was
life ever like that? And where the hell do kids fit in? Oh, maybe they don't!

To the OP... watch Inception... where is your fantasy and where is your reality?