We are not crossdressers.....and we get fed up of being told we are

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Ok we have some threads on here about why it’s ok for women to wear trousers/pants and say that we are crossdressing. Well we are not.

Check the profiles....you'll come to the conclusion that it's an age thing.

I thought I had sorted out in my head the difference between CD, TV, TS, ... and had firmly come to the conclusion that I was a male CDer who enjoyed wearing women's clothes.
Again, I am definitely NOT trying to emulate a female.

And I get SO MAD when certain posters insist on referring to us collectively as "girls".

Now I have problems ... if I am not a CDer, should I be on this forum?
And if not, where do I belong?
AAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!

You do understand that it's all grey and muddy don't you? That the above categories are murky and self defined? That most of the "crossdressers" who join websites such as this have some form of transgender identity, and folks like you are less common, and even more less common in the in-person support groups.

It's not a case of "where you belong", you just need to realize that you're not like the majority here, and that the others who have a transgender identity of some kind have a closer sense of group identity than folks like you do.

If it was acceptable for me to simply wear whatever women's-style clothes I wanted, I might never have attempted to go the whole nine-yards dressing enfemme.

So it's all the women's fault? If they all dressed like Donna Reed or June Cleaver you wouldn't be wearing women's clothes. That's bullshit and you know it.

For women it is the complete opposite. I'm not even talking about FtM's. Regular women can wear *any* item of men's clothing *anywhere*, and not raise a single eyebrow.

They're not wearing men's clothing, they bought their clothing in the women's department.

I think FtM's have it a lot easier for that reason. They can wear whatever they want. They can even present completely as a man, and AFAIK be completely secure that they won't be hassled or looked down on.

Why don't you make that statement to the FTM's here and see what kind of response you get. Ha ha ha ha ha.

One example. I work with a woman who wears guy jeans, a guy polo shirt, and hiking boots every day. She has a men's haircut and unisex wire framed glasses.

Are you sure they're from the men's department? Did you check the tags?

Really you should talk to some of the FtMs on this forum and see what they have to say about that.

I'm imagining the response

In the technical aspect women that wear pants ARE crossdressing. Pants from the get go were for men. They were from riding breeches, and were for horse riding, a thing that for the most part only men did.

No they're not, because while that may have been the case 100 years ago it isn't "NOW". Times change.

If a woman wore an outfit consisting of pants, dress shoes, and socks, and presented as a female, would she be called a crossdresser?

No, because she bought those things in the women's departments.

I know of crossdressers who do not visit this site precisely because it is dominated by those who crossdress for transgendered reasons which they do not relate to.

Well if they DON'T join this site, or the in-person support groups, then things won't change and such places will be filled with crossdressers who have a transgender identity of some kind. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

If women dressed as women, high heels, nylons, short skirts, dresses, etc, instead of pants, sweatshirts, clunky mens shoes, a lot of us wouldn't feel the need to dress up. Every now and then someone comes in here with some lame explanation why it's OK for women to dress like men. Whatever women do is OK. Whatever men do is wrong! I'm not buying it!

I feel the same way. The only dresses my wife wears is a sun dress that is not intended to be worn outside the house. Otherwise she wears only pants and shorts. If she would dress more lady-like I would be content to simply wear my denim skirts with otherwise men's articles of clothing.

<sarcasm> why yes, it's all the women's fault, if they wore dresses and stockings and girdles and acted just like june cleaver you two wouldn't be crossdressers</sarcasm> A little bit of chauvinism there don't you think?

I only wish society would be more tolerant of men wearing skirts, dresses, heels, and makeup, particularly when they are not trying to pass as women.

Well considering that most of men who DO go out in women's clothing DO want to pass as women and that people like you tend to be of the "extremely closeted" sorts who don't go out, it's all moot isn't it.

This will be in the form of crossdressing becoming an acceptable alternative for males for society in general.

John (Johanna)

You wish! But if you want it to happen you'll actually have to DO something rather than hide in your closet and say, "I can't go out till people are accepting"

II strongly suspect if pants were considered a feminine article of clothing, us crossdressers would be wearing pants. It's just the nature of the beast.

There are crossdressers who wear women's pants. :-)

Women fought for their right to wear pants. We as crossdressers have not, and thus their is frustration and sometimes a little jealousy that women can and do wear what they choose.

That's right.

[COLOR="dimgray"] I really don't think most women even think about crossdressing, when they wear men
s clothes,

But they're not wearing men's clothes, they're wearing women's clothes, that they bought in the women's department. I understand that your age affects your viewpoint on this, but in case you were absent for the past 70 or so years, but pants are women's clothing.

Oh, what a load of horse poop!

Yeah, it's just rationalization.

So while you present a very valid point, the point is moot.

Exactly.

Women are free to wear pants, shirts, ties and mens shoes, and boy haircuts, and no one sees anything wrong it.

Most women aren't wearing those things, and the ones that do, get plenty of hassle. Go ask the butches and FTM's

Fiona is exactly correct, and here is the punch line: Women fought for the right to wear whatever they wanted, and they were ridiculed for it. Have we fought the same fight??? NO!

So, let's stop grousing about it and get out there fight!

tina

It's not going to happen, because too many of the "Manly Men in skirts crowd" are scared. They want everything to magically change without them doing anything because they're scared of ridicule, even more so that the crossdressers with transgender identities are.

Veronica