Soapbox: Can we be honest for just a minute???

[kathyw]

i see alot of you girls that can realy pass . but i also se alot that needs work amd im one of them that couldnt pass ever withplastic surgery

[Genivieve]

I really do see what you mean Briana. I felt the same way and now I'm shifting my view a bit.

In a creative writing class they do point out what works and what does not. Also, the bar for what looks great is not equal to a true female model. Few of us here look like Jessica Alba or some other genetic female starlet.

If you were in a beginning writing class and the teacher tore you apart for not writing like James Joyce that would be pretty harsh.

People do criticize plenty here but they also offer support. As with anything there needs to be an amount of lifting up and tempering. Many good comments are followed with advice on how to look better. Some of the people brave enough to post photos over time end up looking more amazing within months of adjustment.

I guess its complicated balancing honesty and kindness but respect is always important I think.

[GaleWarning]

Constructive criticism is difficult to provide. Your picture looks great, but ...
Most people hit the word "but" and see it as "BUT".
Too many people cannot stand the bit which follows that word.

How many people on this forum are able to stand back and ask themselves, "Could this comment about my picture possibly be true?" and then entertain conjecture that, just possibly, the answer might be, "Yes, it is true!"

Karren's answer is true for a lot of people here. In the words of the Fleetwood Mac song ... "Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies!"

On the other hand, if absolutely everyone has nothing but good stuff to say about your picture, perhaps you might consider the possibility that, indeed, it is a good one!

[Genivieve]

Wait Karen's comment was about lying...so my picture isn't great! I look like a man oh my! Self doubt is fun...

Joking of course. I'm all about dealing with things as they are and I am not a lovely female. I will keep working at looking my best and understanding where my identity lies.

[TxKimberly]

The only time I give criticism is when someone specifically asks for an honest opinion, and even then, i am very reluctant for all of the same reasons that others have mentioned.

[NicoleScott]

If someone asks for a critique, give them your honest feedback, especially if they say "it's OK to give me both the good and the bad".
Unsolicited negative comments are inappropriate. You wouldn't walk up to someone on the street and say "you look like a hooker". You might get a response "I AM a hooker!!". There was a recent thread about cleavage and a comment was "your mask creeps me out". Not good.
I started a thread a couple years ago about seeing how a wig would look on me by using editing tools to cut and paste the wig onto my face. Someone commented that I needed to ease up on the makeup, etc. I refrained from responding that the person who posted the negative comment, based on her avatar photo, wasn't qualified to critique my makeup. Unsolicited negative comment.
Finally, let's not assume everyone has the same objective (passing in public) when dressing and making up. Some of us prefer to dress and make up in a certain style for our own pleasure, and in private. In that case, nothing I choose to do (dress and makeup) is inappropriate. Don't worry, I don't plan on going out and giving all crossdressers a bad reputation (as if we don't already have one) because you may not like my style.

[msginaadoll]

I think some people do really want you to be honest, but many others dont. I try to comment when I can say something positive. I will also comment when somebody asks the ole am I passible question. To me that question calls for honesty. My honesty usually is yes you are passible as a crossdresser, whether or not somebody wants to accept that or not is on them. It is in no way meant as meanspirited just my opinion.

[Genivieve]

I have to add.. that some people here are much prettier than most girls I see strolling about. That is an accomplishment. I won't name names.

[Cassidy]

I posted seven stories on the Fictionmania site and the same seven stories on the Big Closet - Top Shelf site. Each one of the stories received 'glowing' reviews and some went as far as saying '...get thee to a publisher...' It cost a few bucks however I did send one that I thought was my 'best' to professional. She was a motorcycle acquaintance of mine who taught creative writing and at the same time a screen writer. I got my money's worth and received honest and constructive input regarding character development, dialogue, plot, and story pacing. At the end of the day both Fictionmania and Big Closet commenters commented on the cross-dressing character and not the actual story.

I'll not comment on input from members responses to the pictures posted to the site. Instead I'll ask a question. How many comments posted say '...nice outfit...' or something along those lines?

In essence what I'm saying is one gets what one pays for. think about it.

[Megan Thomas]

I see many photo on this website and many comments that are just compliments. Where is the honesty? Where is the truth? The Internet is anon these days, it makes it so easy to be honest and yet people arent.

Great post! The number of times I see people posting "you look pretty" comments in respect of some highly unflattering photos never ceases to amaze me. I realise it's mostly done to avoid hurt feelings but the flip side is it may give these girls a misrepresented view of themselves, which in turn could lead to more serious consequences. And that's not good for any of us...

[Julogden]

Some people don't know how to give constructive criticism. What they think is constructive is actually very rude.

[donnalee]

Like Mama told us; "If you can't say anything nice, say nothing at all." This site is a refuge for a lot of people, many in serious emotional pain; it's not a place for criticism. Save it for PMs or email.

[sometimes_miss]

People come here to feel better about themselves. Any negativity is frowned upon. To tell the whole truth might send some into a downward spiral. So lets keep it happy and light. If anyone really wants the truth, all they have to do is dress up, and go to a biker or redneck bar.

[Pythos]

I have asked for honest critique of my looks. I don't want hurtful things, but I do want constructive criticism. Otherwise I am headed out the door in something that can hurt the image of CDs in general and feed sterotypes..

I have even asked for input about my androgynous look and for ways to improve that.

I have been honest here, and have been slapped for it by those not involved. I was being honest, and giving ideas how to improve the look. I do try my best to not hurt, and there are some here I will not make any comments on.

That is one reason I worry a little when a pic set gets little to no response which triggers the "oh that set must have been awful...only 5 responses, whereas others her have 30 or so."

There was one critique here that I got that was very spiteful, and was called out by others here which was nice to see.

Sometimes miss.....that is exactly the sort of thing that can lead to bad problems.

[Shananigans]

I find that there is always something you can compliment someone on. GGs aren't always that brutally honest with each other. We are very good at layering things. For example, when a girl gets ready and has on an outfit that she wants your opinion on. You think that the shirt is absolutely heinous and makes her look way bigger than she actually is...you don't have to SAY that. What would be acceptable in girl code is to say, "Well, I love the shoes and the jacket...the jewelry is AWESOME! But, ehhhh...I don't know about the shirt. I just don't think it looks right for the occasion or the rest of the outfit. Let's see what else you have." That's way better than saying, "That shirt makes you look fat. Take it off. Try again!" Often, on this site, someone will ask me how "passable" that she looks. If I don't think very passable, I'm not going to say, "No, you look like a man in a dress." Why the heck would I say that? Instead, I would avoid the original question and just say, "I think you really look great in these pics...love the dress." Very few people on this site don't dress great...so, it's the truth. We don't have to get into the whole "how passable debate."

Anyway, I think that's where some members on this site can be a little harsh with critiques. I've seen a few comments to people who wanted critiques (usually on makeup) that I thought were way too harsh. One member had tried red lipstick...many said it looked like crap. I chose not to say that it looked like crap, but complimented the member on the fact that she took the leap to actually tackle red lipstick application. I then gave her some pointers to get the look down pat.

Again, layering. GGs do it to each other. You can make a person feel good while offering advice or criticism. You don't have to be hateful when you do it.

[Briana90802]

Perhaps I should clarify a few things. Most importantly I believe that the tone of this website should be kept light and friendly, and an objective honest critique can be just that. This community(for some) is the only one which we can rely on to express ourselves openly, and since some of us may not have supportive SO, we owe it to each other to come forth(when asked) and be supportively honest. Like a fortune cookie once told me "sometimes the best mirror is a good friend."

I believe that sugar coating can sometimes be dangerous, and give a false sense of security. I know that I'm not the best at everything and I aspire to be better than I am, I think sugarcoating inflates the ego. But I don't always believe in brutal honestly either.

Our failures define our successes, to which our embarrassments help us become more confident. Personally i'd rather feel a little embarrassed here with you ladies than extremely embarrassed in public.

However, I was reminded by my SO(and I'm glad she said something), "ask a general question, get a general answer."

[Pythos]

Shananigans, to be absolutely honsest, at least for men, layering does not work well.

I want specific point "Those pants don't work" "that shirt is the wrong color" "your lips are shaped a bit off" and then perhaps followed by the reason the poster thinks the way they do. If the reason is because of something about most people not doing that then I will take that critique and put it aside, why? Because I am not one to jump off a bridge because others do it.

I will be honest, I think the layering you speak of is what leads to so many points of miss communication.

Example. Our window sill was rotting away. My mom suggested that sometime in the future that we work on it. Her message actually being "I would like you to put aside everything and fix that window sill" If she had said that the sill would have gotten replaced sooner.

Now there is certainly tact required, but there are also times for brutal honesty. There was a poster here that posted pics that were the kind that are used AGAINST crossdressers. Wearing a strapless bra, garter belt, panties, stockings (nothing too bad there), HUGE breasts (ok), and makeup splattered all over their face, with pursed pouty lips. The lipstick was slathered on and crooked. I'm sorry, this individual needs to know, this is not good. If she put on a nice dress over that and headed out the door...oh wow. Unless it was for a fun joke (how is that a fun joke, making fun of women?) that would do nothing but damage to her, as well as to the already badly damaged image of crossdressers in general.

In my case I have gotten critique on my black lipstick. Okay. The reason was that most women wear brighter colors. That is a critique I will set aside. Now "YOur lipstick is lopsided, or the upper lip is too thin" that I will take and use that. One person here critiqued quite correctly about my old wig being a tangled mess. It is, but then they kept ripping into my wig and how it looked, this was taking the critique too far and for some would have been hurtfull. Another example would be "Your foundation looks a little mottled. " I WANT such critique. Technical stuff.

I want to know if the breast forms I have make me look ludicrous.

This is a support site, that does not mean this is an enabling site. Enabling helps no one and perpetuates bad behaviors. We don't want to do that here.

[BillieJoEllen]

First you have to be brutally honest with yourself. Then and only then will you have the discernment to know whos pulling your shaved leg or not. Remember...To thine own self be true.... Myself, I don't look that great and I can admit it. If someone were to tell me I looked beautiful I would know they were lying.

[GingerLeigh]

Honest opinions is one of the reasons why I don't post my pics online. Dishonest opinions is another (why are you lying to me?), being recognized by someone I know, and oh yeah... who am I kidding anyway?! Most people won't say it to your face, even if they are anonymous. Often times (but not always) people are sincerely trying to be nice. Tell me I'm ugly and I'm likely to reach through the monitor an knock you flat! Honesty is overrated. Leave it in the confessional. My momma always said, "If you got nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all."

ginger

[Shananigans]

Shananigans, to be absolutely honsest, at least for men, layering does not work well.

I want specific point "Those pants don't work" "that shirt is the wrong color" "your lips are shaped a bit off" and then perhaps followed by the reason the poster thinks the way they do. If the reason is because of something about most people not doing that then I will take that critique and put it aside, why? Because I am not one to jump off a bridge because others do it.

I will be honest, I think the layering you speak of is what leads to so many points of miss communication.

You can still be honest while finding something that the person DID get right. If there is a problem with crooked lipstick (which there was in the example that I gave of the person experimenting with red lipstick), you can say, "If you find that your hand is unsteady, place the palm of your hand on your chin to steady your hand." This is actually what I told the person. You don't have to say, "Wow, that f*cking lipstick is crooked...what's wrong with you?" And though this person Did have crooked lipstick, I also said that she did a good job at understanding that with red lipstick it is best to keep the rest of the face more neutral. She accomplished this and so she did a good job, in my opinion. I think that most people focus purely on the negative. Many on this site have terrible confidences and are already focusing on the negative. You can offer advice and help with the shortcomings on trivial things such as not choosing the right outfit, but pointing out the things that they got RIGHT will also help in the long run because it will give them the confidence to keep trying.

Also, in regards to the person who posted a rather tarty picture of themselves... Is it wrong that they looked sleazy in the picture? Surely this person knew that they looked sleazy or else she wouldn't have posted such provocative pictures. Some CDs dress for fetishistic reasons and should not be overlooked because they tend to be on the other end of the TG spectrum. It would be easy to say, "You are giving CDs a bad name! You are wearing underwear and you aren't presenting like a real woman should!" Well...some CDs do this. Some don't present as real women. Some just walk around in nylons and high heels. You belong to a diverse group. I think the fetishistic CDs get a really bad rep sometimes because they aren't "legit" enough, but they are still CDs.

My point is that people ESPECIALLY on this site have very low self-esteems. We should keep that in mind when pictures are posted and criticism is wanted (or unwanted). You can let the person know how to improve his/her look, but also point out what he/she got right. Part of critique is not just listing everything that was done WRONG, but also pointing out what was done RIGHT.

This is not "sugar-coating," this is how critique works.

For example, if I was critiquing someone's writing, I would say, "I was a little lost on page 2. You could not keep my attention on this page and I found myself thinking about other things. However, you really picked things back up on page 3 and I liked where it was going. By page 5, I was somewhat lost again and unsure of your point. By the end, I was glad that I had read this piece." THAT'S how you critique. People need to know what they are doing right just as much as they need to know what they are doing wrong.

[audreyinalbany]

very well said, Shananigans

[msniki48]

I'm all for positive, but a critique is neither positive or negative, but more over a suggested course of action that may improve the overall functionality. As far as mis-construing things we should all take things with a grain of salt. people take offense so easily these day. We react instead of thinking and then acting accordingly.

You can choose to react to a criticism or think about it and act appropriately.

Briana, we all try our best to show ourselves as our mind's eye sees ourselves, most of us know we don't pass.[ as very few of us do] I always see something positive i can comment on in a thread. If i have a constructive remark I simply make it in private.

Like i think your wig would look much more natural if you let a few sprigs of hair down like soft bangs. i just do it in private....many times i get a thank you.

hugs

[NicoleScott]

I think the fetishistic CDs get a really bad rep sometimes because they aren't "legit" enough, but they are still CDs.

Thank you, Shananigans. Some folks here don't seem to realize that not all of us have feminine identities; some of us dress for pleasure, but we're still crossdressers.

[Pythos]

Okay, damage control truck.

I was not saying the tarty picture was bad. These example pictures I refered to the person looked like a complete mess. The makeup wasn't tarty, it was messy. Horrible, not well done. I was not in anyway knocking the outfit which was tarty, my point was the makeup. That's all. I also would not say "God that makeup job f--king sucks, what the hell is wrong with you?" That would be rude. But "The makeup is in need of a lot of work" I think works fine. Yes there are levels of rudeness and harshness.

And most definitely a mix of good and bad is really appreciated, by me anyway.

[Shananigans]

Okay, damage control truck.

I was not saying the tarty picture was bad. These example pictures I refered to the person looked like a complete mess. The makeup wasn't tarty, it was messy. Horrible, not well done. I was not in anyway knocking the outfit which was tarty, my point was the makeup. That's all. I also would not say "God that makeup job f--king sucks, what the hell is wrong with you?" That would be rude. But "The makeup is in need of a lot of work" I think works fine. Yes there are levels of rudeness and harshness.

And most definitely a mix of good and bad is really appreciated, by me anyway.

I know YOU wouldn't say that, but some people's comments to other people photos have been REALLY cutting. I'd like..jump in bed and cry my head off. It's like middle school all over again hahaha

I really don't see any criticism lacking on this site. I guess that I see the same people get more positive reviews on their photos because people like them. I kind of shrug sometimes because I don't really see the makeup as all that great...but, I never say anything because I don't think my critiques are really wanted by said people. And, on the other side of the coin, there are people who just never seem to get a break.

Like I said, middle school all over again. (Most) GGs grew out of it when we were 12 and learned how to play nice while still offering criticism...some members of this site are in their terrible twos hahaha

(Actually I talked to a member on here who said that he felt like he acted like the girls off of Mean Girls while dressed. I did not want to tell him that GGs older than the age of 18 do not act like this IRL. And, if they do, everyone thinks they're a bunch of tw*ts and doesn't want to hang out with them).

So, yeah, I see positive comments where I think people are being pretty gracious (overly so), but I also see a lot of b*tchiness that I personally think is way harsher than it needs to be. Just my opinion,.