Kicking at a dead horse

[ReineD]

I agree with you, Taylor. Sadly, many women aren't immune to this either. This is why the fashion business is so big. Or these women play into it as long as they are young, single, and their bodies hold out. Others become compulsive about the shopping, buying way more stuff than they really need, in an attempt to reach the impossibly high media standards of beauty.

But, there are also the women who choose the opposite route and they give up. Or, they refuse to play into it. These are the women that so many CDers in this forum complain about: the ones who wear jeans, no makeup, sneakers, etc. The women who long ago came to realize they will never have a model's face and body, so they see the futility in trying to look like one.

And then there are the middle of the road women, like me.

But, my point I guess was rather about this ideal "image" that it seems many CDers chase (although I may be wrong), which makes me question whether it is really just about the clothes rather than wanting to attain what I consider to be a fake beauty ideal. I say "fake" because it is largely contrived by the fashion industry, with great marketing, models that look like a very small percentage of the real women out there, and lots and lots or air brushing.

[Joanagreenleaf]

ReineD,

About your pictures...

Note that the first woman is apparently a model for a workers training event in that she's standing next to sign about how to conduct yourself in doing "war work" (security) and a sign about choosing the right tool for the job. The second woman is engaged in actually doing "dirty work" and seems engaged in doing the work "with a will." Neither woman could be easily mistaken for a, "he," man...

The first woman, however, could easily be taken for an effeminate man. She seems self-conscious in her stance, she doesn't "own" the clothes she's wearing, and her posture is of one unprepared to do anything with any "will." The second woman is a "manly" woman, using muscle and action to get a task done. Sure, she could be mixing cookie dough, but it just so happens here she isn't.

The main thing dividing these two woman is, "competence," I think, and, unless you're looking at a competitor, competence is generally sexy, or, sexier than incompetence or uncertainty. Instead of "sexy" you could use "attractive," "useful," or, "valuable." To me, what separates CDs into two groups is "silly" vs. "sensible."

Some CDs "aspire" to be women and wind up being immature girls, not mature women. It's the lack of any real ability to get anything serious done, you see. Some CDs, a minority it seems, aspire (or, set the temporary goal) to be women - but in ways that many woman aspire to go about their day - the right clothes, makeup, shoes, etc. for what they are going to DO with their time as women.

I've seen both kinds of CDers, but I have never been anything but a "working woman's woman," I suppose, because to me it's been about experiencing "the mission" of getting ready, getting to work, and getting things done: whether it's getting the car fixed, arguing with the tax man, doing the grocery shopping, or, going to a party or the post office. I prefer the more pleasant assignments, of course, and not for the least of reasons that's it's easier on the clothes themselves.

The topic of this thread was about men wearing skirts. I've never had anyone say men couldn't wear skirts, only that they probably shouldn't. Skirts impart no advantages to most work-a-day tasks over pants, shorts, or, slacks that I have ever seen. Skirts, as women came to argue over time, limit what can be done, can often be a security problem, and, have to be managed more than pants. They are, too often, the wrong tool for the job and force the wearer into difficult or unsafe situations. Who, for example, wants a skirt trapped in a truck rig door as they step down from the cab? Who? Nobody with any sense of safety or financial profit...

The OP titled this thread, "Kicking (at) a dead horse." Actually, the expression is "Beating a dead horse": the "kicking" expression is "Kicking a dead dog." Either way, the notion is that it's fruitless to beat or kick a dead thing if your intent is to get the dead thing to, in the case of the horse, to run, or, in the case of the dog, to move. If, on the other hand, you want to vent some frustration, then the beating or kicking might be in order, although it just makes what you're doing more fruitless in terms of the commonly desired affect.

Men can wear skirts, and few men will stop them. Some will, most won't. And, why do the majority of men and women not deeply care about men wearing skirts? Because it's too easily seen as a pointless effort at getting very much done and it's easily seen a ultimately self defeating/silly behavior if it's "all" about freedom, etc.

Women wear tailored and/or colorful skirts to get something done, not just to appear stupid at getting on in life. And, when they wear pants, or, "dull" skirts, it's either because it fits their purposes better, they lack something else at the time, or, they guessed wrong about their day.

Men can and do wear skirts, when it makes better sense to do so. Which... is rarely.

But, knock yourself out if that's what you want to do. That's my take on it... And, I have some nice skirts that I wouldn't waste on tilting at windmills.

[TxKimberly]

. . . And then there are the middle of the road women, like me. . . .

OK, gotta jump in here for a second, and both flatter and perhaps help her make her point. I've met Reine in person and there is nothing 'middle of the road' about her appearance. She is beautiful. She is a real beauty - a woman who actually walks the earth, eats a reasonable meal, and appears to do a reasonable amount of exercise. What she is not
is a stick thin, starving to death, and heavily photo shopped teenaged girl trying to convince everyone that THIS is what real women look like.
I would much rather look like Reine than like that . . .

[Pythos]

Both of those Rosies are quite attractive to me, but I must honestly say, I like the one shown working. HEH. You know why? Because she looks like someone that would love to get dirty working on a classic plane or car along with me. We as a couple could share building up some old wreck, and then later in the evenening get dressed to the nines and head out. Who cares about the arms, those are arms that actually CAN do work. Heck I think it would be beyond awsome to get hooked up with a GG that liked my fem image, AND had aspirations to restore some classic, just would like help, I would so be in there. LOL She could wear the baggy coveralls and I could wear my catsuits. (Yea I know....crazy imagination)