Good times turn bad

[Badtranny]

Here in the United States, there are places, like Houston Texas, where gays and transgenders have been beaten to death and the perpetrators were charged with involuntary manslaughter, and given probation.

Yes the argument against hate crime legislation does seem a little odd. I don't want to make this a conservative versus liberal argument so let's just say, that a certain segment of people who don't want things to get better, like to pretend that all people are equal under current laws. The sad fact is that some are more equal than others and laws are argued and interpreted on a case by case basis. Someday it really won't matter what someone looks or acts like, but until then accommodations have to be made under force of law to protect those of us who are most vulnerable. A quick internet search will reveal dozens of cases in the last 10 years where TG women were murdered in cold blood by cowardly closet queens who received minimal jail time if any, because their lawyers (public defenders in some cases) successfully argued that the killer was so surprised and enraged by the victim's penis that they couldn't help themselves and became temporarily insane while they stabbed, or strangled, or bludgeoned the victim to death. After having sex of course.

Why hate crimes? Well, in cases like this you can either make good lawyering illegal, or you can make killing someone BECAUSE of their trans status an aggravating factor. You see, without the "protection" of law, a victim's trans status can be used against them by playing to the prevailing fears and prejudices of the time. The same thing applies to black folks, because there was a time when a black kid could be beaten at the very least just for showing some interest in a white girl. The perpetrators will freely admit the assault was BECAUSE he was black, but he should have known better. If he would have just known his place than he wouldn't have fallen into such unfortunate circumstances. Hate crime laws just add a little extra nudge to the idea that it's NOT okay to attack someone just because you don't like who they are. It's an imperfect solution for an imperfect justice system.

Why it offends a certain segment of the population so much, I'll never understand.

[Sally24]

Well said Melissa!

If there wasn't so much hate, we wouldn't need hate crime laws.

[JamieG]

My guess is that hate crimes are considered different from ordinary crimes because their are more victims. In addition to the direct victim or victims, there is everyone else in the same protected group who feels threatened because they are now being targeted. In essence, a hate crime is a kind of terroristic threat; they often occur because the perpetrators want that "kind" to know they aren't wanted around here.

[Sally24]

In essence, a hate crime is a kind of terroristic threat; they often occur because the perpetrators want that "kind" to know they aren't wanted around here.

Exactly! Not only do you have the original physical crime of assault, but you also have the threat to all others of that "group" that this will happen to you. It is an attempt to deprive some people of their constitutional rights of free assembly, association and speech!

So let's see if I understand . . . Attacking someone because of their skin color or their gender identity is definitely wrong, but singling them out and keeping them socially distinct and different so that you can offer them unique and special "protection" is O.K.? Both are forms of discrimination.

This is the same line of reasoning that those that hate other groups use. The whole "special rights" argument is a sham. What these laws at least attempt to do is to prevent or offset the real discrimination that already is taking place. If you follow this to its conclusion than we should repeal the civil rights laws of the 60's? I don't think so! Anyone who has lived in this country during the 60's and 70's knows that for minorities and women huge changes have taken place. That would not have been possible without those protections.

"Preference," be it in hiring, or in special treatment under the law ("hate crime")........... is just plain wrong.
Persephone.

Only bad policies or bad managers use the anti-discrimination laws to hire and promote on the basis of race or sex. The laws were meant to prevent ALL discrimination. Used properly they PREVENT a woman from NOT being hired because she is a woman. Quotas are no ones friend.

[Silentpartner GG SO]

Its been really interesting reading this thread- to read the different perceptions and feelings of others - especially how you feel when you go out en femme - being a GG I guess I have always has that self preservation instinct and try not to put myself into a situation which could be threatening but for a CD going out en femme for the first few times, it must be a revelation.

Sadly bigots and evil people exist everywhere - there are lots of places here in the UK I wouldnt go even in daylight on my own, in fact most inner cities!

I'm really sorry that anyone has had to endure such hatred purely based on the clothes they choose to wear- what next -get your head kicked in because you are wearing the wrong colour shirt, or the wrong brand of trainers?

[Badtranny]

The whole "special rights" argument is a sham.

Totally.

My whole family are tea bagger conservatives (I'm the pink sheep) and recently my mom and sister were visiting. We were having some wine after dinner and the conversation turned to gay marriage. My mom (religious) is against it but my sister (gun nut) said the government should stay out of it. Then my sister (who I adore) goes on to say "but I don't think they should have special rights". I said what special rights? .....She said, "ummmmmmm".

She couldn't name a single "special" right that homosexuals had or were asking for. All she knew was what she hears over and over from Rant Wing radio. Gay agenda this, and special rights that.

I told her she was plenty smart enough to think for herself and she should come to her own conclusions rather than someone else's. She said I was probably right. Yay, another mind opened just a crack.