I honestly don't pay that much attention to the negativity Hon. Their problem, not mine.
I honestly don't pay that much attention to the negativity Hon. Their problem, not mine.
Second star to the right and straight on till morning
Even less. For example, the Alpha Chapter (the mother chapter of the entire organization) is now just a mailing list with no planned events. Their web site is still there but hasn't been updated in years. Ironically, one of the 2010 news articles on the site talks about the Chicago "Chi Chapter" being decertified because they had decided to become more inclusive. The Chi chapter appears to be still going strong despite their ouster: http://www.chi-chapter.org/Originally Posted by ReineD
Eryn
"These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
"She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
"Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]
Hear, hear, never have such truth been written on this forum!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I had sort of a negative experience last night when someone "clocked" me and made an a** out of themselves. The thing is this person assumed I am gay, and that's what bothered me. I need to let go of it though and am trying to remember it doesn't matter what others think only what I think counts.
Paulette
RIGHT ON!
I'll just tell my family who could
a) Forever see me differently
b) See me as broken
c) Be disgusted
d) Shun me
For right now, they're all I have and you could say I owe them my life.
If I lose them I lose everything, but hey, if the internet says it's no big deal...
Yeap, you heard them.
No matter what your situation is, no matter how complicated, you must come out and risk it all to appease the internet.
When you're ready? What kind of BS is that?
This is what I"m talking about. As a man, I never had anyone laugh or make rude comments to me, not since I was in elementary school! Now I'm getting the rude comments, stares, looks, etc... and sometimes I think, "what am I doing this for?" I also am aware that we are hated more than any other social group including gays and lesbians. The "T" at the end of L.G.B.T. is IMO the most hated group amongst American males. Anyone disagree? Therefore; we have to be more careful than the average GG. Yes there are A-holes all over the place, but they seem to feel it's ok to be that way towards us TG Woman than any other group. That's what makes me angry and scared most of the time. But I don't let my fears overcome me and/or stop me from being "myself" and presenting as a woman out and about in the world.
Paulette
FurPus I have to disagree. Hate is a strong word when used in our situation. I think that most know nothing about us and if anything think that we are odd and maybe weird. I also believe that probably the ones that dislike us,l less than hate, are probably in the minority when compared to the ones who just don't know us. I know I may have different experiences than you do, but I definitely do not see the hate that you do and I have been out dressed in the Detroit suburbs a few times.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. I make a comment about not complaining unless you're working for the change and that is somehow interpreted as an attack. I would never suggest that anyone come out unless or until they are ready to do so, but if your are NOT prepared to stand proud then please do not complain about how un-accepting the world is. If the only CD's they see are the so called "bad examples" then show them something different. Show them a perfectly normal and well adjusted man who just happens to play dress up every now and then. Or a regular straight dude who just happens to be into feminine fashions. So many of you assert yourselves as manly men who "know how to handle themselves", well then stand up for yourself. Why is a femmy bottom girl like me not scared of other dudes, but the macho guys are acting like scared little girls, while they talk the big talk.
Or you could stay in the closet and act horrified and persecuted when a loudmouth like me calls you out on your BS. P.S. I don't mean YOU specifically, but you and yours generally.
I don't think it's hate... I think it's misunderstanding and maybe a little of their own repression going on...
When I was young, I would mock gays... while being with a guy myself. Look at all the politicians who are anti-gay and then you find out... wait a minute... they like the penis!
Honestly, I don't really care either way about anything but the closet shaming.
There are legit reasons to be in there and in time they will be broken down when they are ready, not when their fears or situation is handwaved away.
Allow me to bow down to your bravery and fortitude, but everyone being so vastly different doesn't make it easy in every situation.
The last line of that earlier post wasn't meant as an attack though, so, eh.
Edit:
What BS specifically?
I never seen anyone claiming to be a closet CD claim descrimination here, unless I'm skipping those threads?
Last edited by whowhatwhen; 03-19-2012 at 11:58 PM.
The fact is, many of the vanilla public think guys dressed up as women must be GAY PERVERTS!Which is patently unfair! Maybe I'm a perv, but MOST OF U ARENT!
I'm not gay, but that doesn't bother me. The way I look, I'll never get hit on!
If u can PASS, MOST folks won't notice u if u dress to BLEND!
But, if you're like me, I pass and blend like a horse in a china shop! So, I get FLACK when I'm out!
It's been said here, if u have CONFIDENCE it doesn't matter if you're made. :brolleyes:
Well, I'll NEVER be THAT CONFIDENT!
So, I have a choice. Either put up with the crap or stay at home.
Rite now, I'm working on changing MY ATTITUDE toward vanilla folks. Because I can't control or change theirs!
U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.
Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!
I'm going to say that everyone is correct that confidence is biggest part of being out. I have been going out more and more of late and I haven't had any problems. But I think there is another part that is almost the same size phase of being out. It is looking your best, as you must realize that you are representing a very special group. Women, GG's and/or girls, these beautiful beings are part of the public too. I admire them so much and want to represent as best I can I try to look good and so should everyone else who wants to emulate them. I don't think you'll have to much problem though Marleena in your avatar, just try smiling a lot while you are out.
Tess
[COLOR="blue"]Contessa Marie D
I'm TG. A fem-male so I look male sometimes.
Dressing is necessary, the type of clothes you wear not so much.
This above all to thy own self be true!
What negativity? Have I been missing something? I probably have...come to think of it. I wonder why? Mabye it's because I step out the door with a smile on my face everyday and walk in wherever I want still wearing my smile. And people smile back. So I guess I am not seeing the negative part. Thank goodness!
Discrimination and Human Rights aside (which I am involved in as well, but that is another story), the negativity I see emanates from a lot of CDs (including a lot of my friends) that think the minute they step out in the world some kind of calamity will envelope them. If you go out and put your best food forward, you will slowly be instrumental in changing people's attitudes. It is a given. It will also change the way you view the world.
But the reality is most people out there are not out to get you. Yes, there are the Rush Limbaughs of the world and a few negative people out there, but they are not that many.
Please do not let the 1% out there rule your life and your perspective.
Love,
Michelia
"Genius is the recovery of childhood at will." Rimbaud
Thanks Tess! And everybody that replied.
The big issue is some of the attitudes from the general public. You know the religious hate groups and anti TG websites. There are politicians blocking and speaking out against TG related bills. Then the nasty comments in TG news articles. I hope it's a minority. Fact is since we are TG we notice this stuff more than the general public would.
The pleasant surprise is that some of you girls aren't seeing this while out and about.
I'm not shaming those in the closet. I've said over and over that people have every right to be there and some even have good reasons. I'm specifically talking about negativity and the act of harvesting it. If you sow negative energy than that is what you will reap, and as far as I can tell, pretty much ALL of the CD's on this board are closeted except for a very tiny minority. The girls that are out and proud don't seem to complain much about the state of acceptance. They know what's going on because they get out and experience it. It hurts my heart to see that we scatter back into our holes like roaches when faced with exposure. Like we're doing something wrong or there is something wrong with us. I am proud to be a T-girl. I have earned my right to hold my head up and I will not be pushed back into the closet or try and pretend the closet is a desirable place to be.
This thread is about experiencing negativity to TG folks in the world and on this board. I posted the idea that it's not so bad out there and maybe more people should work on being proud of who they are instead of dwelling on the possible or perceived negativity. In regard to this forum, there is some here as well, but again it mostly depends on what you're looking for because to some people MY posts would be considered negative. I obviously don't think so, but if you are in a place where you are offended by constructive criticism than there is not a whole lot I can do about that.
I still say that if everyone came out, Gay, CD, Bi, whatever, if EVERYONE stopped hiding, then we would experience another age of enlightenment.
Last edited by Badtranny; 03-20-2012 at 08:46 AM.
Aye, seems I got a bit defensive...
*slinks out of thread*
Badtranny its a waste of time babe. See just like the TS girls the ones that are in the closet have 1000 excuses for being there. They totally ignore the fact that countless people have come before them and survived. They use this most amayzing excuse which is that they feel thier situation is so spectacularly unique. You know how many times I have sat in counseling a trans person and herd this one. Oh well its all cool with me.
I do have to ask you a question. Did you say earlier that the guys that hit on you tend to be CDs? If so I am interested because outside of trans related events I am not aware of a CD having hit on me in the normal world. If I were to use the though process some here use I would say to myself since it has not happened to me your experiences can be discounted and I will suggest your experiences are an exaduration.
Ok well I was joking because I know exactly what your talking about because I have herd the same thing from other TS girls.
I wanted to ask you if you could expand on why you think CDs hit on TS girls. Could you tell us the conversations you had with them?
As I said in real life this has not happened to me but in trans events ohhhhh yes many times.
I have some ideas what the conversations are about but I will wait for you to respond to see if I am accurate.
Katie
PS I have been saying the same thing about the fact that many sit and complain about the perception of CDs in the real world but then are unwilling to do anything to effect change.
Last edited by Katesback; 03-20-2012 at 10:14 AM.
Please, tell me more about how no one has lost everything coming out
It's also going to be different for a CD since we don't need to come out either.
Ahh damnit, I have no willpower to keep away from these...
*Sigh* Sometimes I feel like I'm going back to grade school again lately. There is this one bully that goes around poking everybody. But the bully is really sneaky and smart and the teachers can't catch them in the act. She stalks this one person especially, for fun.
So the mods being the teachers here have to lock the thread because they can't prove the bully is doing anything wrong.
No don't close it, I literally have nothing better to do.
Same here. I have encountered virtually no negativity in RL, and a fair amount of positive feedback (I generally count the horn-beeps when people drive by as being at least intended as positive
The only places I have encountered any significant amount of negativity have been here, and (to a lesser extent) in a previous "non-standard fashion" board. My own theory about this (for what theories are worth) is that it's due to internalized misogyny. (There's an awful lot of sexism and some obvious misogyny floating around in both places.)
Last edited by Asche; 03-20-2012 at 10:06 AM.
Melissa, I disagree with you. This is not true for most people. First, there are not enough CDers in terms of the total population to have it be mainstream. Even if everyone came out all at once, their numbers would still be too few to make any difference. And as much progress as the gay community has achieved since the 70s, there are still many pockets of our society that keep their distance from gay men, to put it mildly. It is even worse for TGs since transgenders are still pathologized in the DSM. Yes, it would be helpful if more identity CDers went out in the next town over but they are still taking chances. AND ... they need the cooperation of their wives else doing this adds yet another layer of complexity.
More importantly, I think we need to approach this on several fronts, two of which are activism and also through early and continuous education in schools about gender and sexual non-conformity. We need to demystify it, or rather remove the negative religious and sexual connotations. Also, you live in the San Francisco area and you are gay, so I'm guessing that your backyard is not typical of most other members here. My SO and I live in a small town in the midwest. We do go out in neighboring towns and we do our bit to be out and proud among people who do not know us, but there would be consequences for her (and me) privately and also professionally should everyone in our lives know that she also has a feminine gender identity. It is easier for strangers who will never see us again to be tolerant (at least at face value) than employers, close family members, or some friends. I can well imagine a CDer being reluctant to come out to his little daughter's school-friends' parents.
In other words, until society is "there" in terms of understanding and acceptance, how is the average CDer to deal with the fallout in his personal life should he/she come out to everyone the way a TS must in order to maintain her sanity?
Waste of time? 1,000 excuses? Spectacularly unique? Your arrogance is spectacularly unique.
I believe you must have put me on "ignore" since you never respond to my comments to you, but I'll type them anyway. LOL
You do acknowledge, don't you, that it is possible to have a bona-fide feminine gender identity that is not a sexual fetish and without being a TS in denial, and that care must be taken when venturing forth in the real world because there are still real consequences for such TGs to come out to all and sundry in their personal lives?
Last edited by ReineD; 03-20-2012 at 12:48 PM.
Reine
Reine I dont respond to a lot of people.
Do I acknowledge that it is possible to have a feminie gender identity that is not a sexual fetish and without being a TS in denial?
Well sure, I have said many times that my comments, observations, ect. are not all encompassing. They refer to a lot of the CDs and other trans people.
Last edited by Katesback; 03-20-2012 at 12:53 PM.
I'm glad to hear this, thanks!
It's just that sometimes your posts seem arrogantly biased the other way. Maybe it's the way you choose to word things. And so it is easy for people to believe you are either bullying them or you persist in looking at the TG community through your own lens only.
Reine
What? I find that to be incredibly insulting and offensive. ;-)
You are right of course that there are SOME people who really have justifiable reasons for not coming out. I would be a fool to argue otherwise BUT since I have crossed the rainbow and seen the world from this side I can say that I know something that the closeted do not. It is no where near as bad as anyone imagines it. It does take guts and it takes an incredible amount of self possession but the truth is life is so much more wonderful on this side that I want ALL of my sisters and brothers to experience it.
I know that as a TS my coming out was not optional and I know that a CD does not need to, but there are some spectacular people that CD that I would love to see come out and own their identity. These people are strong enough and charismatic enough to pull off the "impossible", if they could just get past the idea that the world will end if they do it. I totally understand the idea that people will see you differently but that's really part of the problem that CD's create for themselves. The total compartmentalizing of two separate personae is not anywhere near self acceptance. If you act like a macho douchebag most of the time, than people will be understandably surprised and chatty if they find out you're in fact a bit of a dandy.
Many CD's are so embarrassed about who they are that they can't help but be kind of secretive and creepy about it. You know, there's a lot of space between being closeted and being OUT. How about speaking out in defense of trans people and trans issues? If you don't want to openly CD, then support the local arts community by going to shows and developing friendships with people who are outwardly different. I know these closeted types try very hard to suppress any interest that might "give them away". Stop doing that. The first step to self acceptance is to stop being ashamed of your interests. Only when you are comfortable admitting to your guy friends that you like something that might be perceived as girly are you on the road to accepting yourself for who you are.
If you spend some time on that road you will find that it always leads right out of the closet. I've never said coming out is easy, I've only said it was worthwhile.
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