[SIZE=3]100% hetero?[/SIZE]Originally Posted by Jenny Girl
[SIZE=3]Are you 100% sure about that?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]100% hetero?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Are you 100% sure about that?[/SIZE]
This is the same logic used by the hooker who "knows" that all women are prostitutes because she is one.
In another time's forgotten space
Your eyes looked through your mother's face
Wildflower seed and sand and stone
May the four winds blow you safely home
- Robert Hunter
It's Over
I guess it was too good to last: we broke up last night. I said some things I shouldn't have about how weird I was feeling about our relationship, and told him I just wanted to be friends, which did not go down well. Although a part of my heart wishes I could be the woman he wants me to be, I know in my head that this is for the best, but it still sucks....
Windy
That does suck. But you've lived many peoples' dream and had a once in a lifetime experience. Always remember the good times and let those memories heal your heart.
Hail Satin!
Windy
Thank you again for having the courage to live your fantasy and for taking us on this magical ride with you. It's been very special.
Breaking up is tough. But it sounds like you made a decision that was right for you.
Lena
A dream? What is a dream, but a blueprint for courageous action.
http://www.adahlshouse.com
Sorry to piss everybody off but when ask for peoples opinion and all that was said was "Go for it, You go girl, it's ok, nothing maters but what you want, ect" and when I speak the truth and at least bring up the other side everybody throws a hissyfit.
We all know what we are "men who wish we were women" and have a good time pretending. I'm sorry to all of you who think you really are a women when you put the clothes on but mabey someone needed to point out the obvious.
I still dress when I can but realize it will never become a reality for me to wear what I want to work and pretend it is normal and have everybody accept me in an office suit with heels and makup.
So there everybody go ahead and throw another hissyfit then wear your favorite fantasy outfit tomorow and prove me wrong. Oh and please post the pics and story here. I will read them all
That's a brilliant thought, but entirely off target. It’s not a logical extension of the posts that I have made. It’s not even logical in the given context even if one broadly considers Linear, Boolean, Modal, Fuzzy, Deductive or any other type of logic. The issue is that a woman, who has a husband, boyfriend, or some other type of significant other who presumes that he is gay because "everyone knows crossdressers are gay" will have that thought confirmed here by this, and other similar, threads. Your post does not address that in any fashion.
These are more apt analogies:
- Someone goes to the message board of the web site women.com and sees a lot of posts about kids, fashion, and the like. They don't see, nor do they expect to see a lot about being a hooker. They don't see posts like "I put on a great outfit that made me feel pretty and sexy, so I went out and worked as a hooker!"
- Someone goes the message board of the web site crossdressers.com and sees lots of posts about clothes, lingerie, and the like. They expect to see that. They also see a number of posts about men dressing as women and going on dates with other men and getting intimate. They see those posts and think, "Ah ha! I thought so."
Both cases reinforce the perception that people have. They expect that the message board of women.com to have stuff about kids, diets, celebrities and things like that. They don't expect, and they do not find a lot of women wanting to be hookers. Regarding the crossdressers site, most people who are not crossdressers probably expect that crossdressers are gay or have gay tendencies. They come here and they find posts that confirm that prejudice.
Now that the prejudice is confirmed it will be especially difficult for someone who is crossdresser to gain any support, sympathy, or acceptance. The wife, girlfriend, etc has had her suspicions confirmed. She moved few steps further on having her mind completely made up.
Warm regards,
Christina Nicole
Well, Christine, I wasn't gung ho like the others and I said I would never do what Windy did. And I do suffer from the labeling and misconceptions that all crossdressors are men lovers and **** suckers.
My social life has really suffered a lot from these general ideas about crossdressors, but maybe I have to admit I'm alienated. I don't know any gay people and I don't go to gay bars. So I'm one of the few crossdressors that keep it mostly straight.
Christina - are you a genetic girl ?
Pamela-
Hmmmm...I guess I missed your post, but I agree with you 100%. Just because cd's wear clothes to express their femme side, that most certainly does NOT mean they're 100% women. Oh yes, I've heard the tired old routine "when I dress male, I'm a MAN and when I dress female, I'm a WOMAN". Sorry to burst the bubble of whoever believes that, but it's simply NOT true. If you desire having sex or fooling around with men while cd-ing....Guess What? Newsflash!
You're not 100% Heterosexual.
You may be gay or bi. Not that there's anything wrong with that, if that's where your head is. Just don't claim because of the clothes, you're 100% woman, and therefore, it's ok to have sex with guys.
That's an excellent point, but it can also be attacked from another angle. I think it's more productive to educate people so they will realize that we are no different than the rest of society: Some of us are gay, some of us are straight.
Likening a homosexual or bi-sexual crossdresser to a prostitute is counter-productive to, for lack of a better phrase, "our cause". Thinking like that will only create a newer, yet more flattering, stereotype of "all crossdressers are perfectly straight and only the weird ones are gay." And that stereotype is just as bad as "all crossdressers are homosexual".
Wives, girlfriends, and society in general should be told the truth about crossdressing, not shielded from the less than savory parts for the purpose of not rocking the boat.
Hail Satin!
"some" would be the key word there. The majority of cd's are straight hetero. If you think you're going to "educate" the public concerning cd's (which is a stretch at best), does it really make sense to make things even more complicated? No.
My sentiments exactly. This whole thing started with me asking for advice about how to deal with a dating a guy, and most of the responses told me to stop thinking so much and go with my heart. Which is what I did, and it was wonderful, until my head took over and screwed things up. Oh well! I have learned so much, about myself and the way we preceive ourselves. I do think there is a danger in trying to stifle experimentation so as not to give crossdressing a bad image - that smacks of political correctness. There are all kinds of crossdressers, and most of us may be totally straight, but I had the opportunity to experience a little romance as a woman, and I'm glad I did.
Windy
Windy, if you weren't ready you weren't ready. If you change your mind, I'm sure you can contact him and work things out. If you don't change your mind then I'm sure you learned something about yourself through the experience.
The majority of crossdressers are heterosexual and if they are in a relationship, they are faithful. However, a small percentage of us are not. I'm not 100% anything, I'm both male and female but physically male, I'm bisexual and I'm not faithful. Therefore, I'm in the small percentage group. I'm not a pervert. But because I'm not in the larger percentage group should I refrain from revealing these facts about myself to protect the larger group. If I did then this group would not exist because the larger group, hetersexuals, would find this site damaging to their lifestyle.
Bonnie
Dear Windy
Just going with your heart can be very risky. I agree that perhaps you weren't quite ready to go through with this but that doesn't preclude some time in the future.
In any case, I am grateful to you for sharing this journey with us.
Windy, you have had quite a lesson. You have learned what it is like to be wined and dined. To be treated as some one very special and how to tell some one where the limits are. That is something I think a women learn as teenagers. You have been true to your self and you tryed not to hurt some one else by being honest. I really admire you for being able to learn all of this.
Stephenie
Wow ! I must say Windy opened up a can of worms-- Good going girl!
You brought out the good and the bad in folks-- and when it said and done- Hey girl you give us all something to think about (or wish for)- Live and let live- And give respect when it is due--- GOOD JOB Windy- Way to be girl !
jealous Janice Ann
Ladies, ladies!
From the incredible response to this thread, I think that Windy brought up something that resonated far and wide.
I get the impression that some here feel that unless we all present as celibate (or at least exclusively heterosexual), we are somehow defaming Tgirls in general. This forum isn’t “Ladylike Magazine”, it’s an honest window to our true feelings and great diversity.
If you want to get on somebody’s case for reinforcing base canards about us, why not start with Michael Jackson?
Rachel x
Last edited by Rachel Ann; 12-23-2005 at 03:45 AM.
In another time's forgotten space
Your eyes looked through your mother's face
Wildflower seed and sand and stone
May the four winds blow you safely home
- Robert Hunter
Dear Windy,
I hope your future with your friend holds endless possibilities for you and I concur with your sisters that time and honesty will permit the relationship to develop to your mutual satisfaction.
Unlike many of the others here. I have a situation which is analogous. Through emails and chat I have found a special lady, I hardly spend a day without thinking about. The problem is we are both, for want of a better term heterogenuous guys. I have tried repeatedly to overcome both her shyness and her reluctance to overcome her questions of sexuality and I have found many of the comments of the ladies instructive and am sure you will also. Best of luck on the future and to all Merry Christmas.
[SIZE=3]I haven't seen anyone say that at all. Crossdressers come in all flavors, gay, bi & hetero. I don't think anyone is denying that fact. The point is, just don't be saying "I'm 100% straight" if you're a CD, and desire to be fooling around with a guy.[/SIZE]
but I was much younger, like 18, and had a private "prom date" with my best friend (a boy), where I wore the prom dress and everything, and he wore a tux. It was a wonderful evening -- I had come out to him a few months earlier and he was fascinated by how I looked en femme. He started coming over to my house to see Karen rather than my male self. We went on a few dates with me en femme, and we had that prom date at my house... it's a long story, but it's the most memorable evening I ever had en femme. My mother, who was supportive of my dressing took the pic of us that's on my profile. We had a romantic dinner for two and ended up slow dancing in the living room, and eventually we kissed and made out for a while on the couch... I was totally in girl mode!! We continued seeing each other for a while after that... but sadly, after a few more dates and confusion over where our relationship was going, we broke up, which just led to heartache and the dissolving of a good friendship...
So I know where you're coming from Windy...
"Behind every great man is a woman rolling her eyes..."
Nearly all of the articles about crossdressing say that the clothes a crossdresser wears has nothing to do with who the crossdresser is. They write that there is no relationship between crossdressing, hetero-, homo-, and bi-sexual behavior. The posts above and specifically the quote shown here belie that statement.
So the truth about crossdressing is... what? It’s just about wearing women’s clothes? It's just about looking pretty? It's about emulating a favored woman? It's about pretending to be a woman? It's about being a woman? It's about getting a man? Just what is it about? The problem is that there is much contradictory information, especially on forums such as this one, that if a person goes to the web to be educated, he or she is just as likely to be educated with error.
Regarding the item about likening crossdressing to prostitution, if you read my post quite carefully, you’ll find I did no such thing. That you read a parallelism into my post is strictly your interpretation. You can't apply a transitive logical property to disconnected elements. I simply redirected Rachel's improper interpretation of my post, which preceded hers.
This next bit is underdeveloped, as I am still thinking it over, but here's a early draft of the idea.
Regarding one listening to one's heart vs. listening to one's head. I have seen little adult-like decision-making process regarding this and similar threads. If one realistically confronts all of the challenges, problems, and ramifications of something so fundamental and thereby comes to a decision, then fine. But on the other hand, if one just plunges headlong into something without knowing where one is going, that's a mistake. Parent counsel their children and teenagers against taking actions like these, because children and teens don't have adult experience to make good decisions. Most transgendered individuals acting in the role of a woman don't have the experience of a woman. They can't make the good decisions of a mature woman since a TG isn't a mature woman. Therefore, the transgendered individual must stop and think first. She must follow her head because her "woman's heart" and woman's intuition is unformed at this stage of development.
Warm regards,
Christina Nicole
Last edited by Christina Nicole; 12-23-2005 at 02:34 PM.
For crying out loud, Regina, I did not liken anyone to a prostitute. My analogy was to Christina's presumption about other peoples’ reasoning:as compared to
Your error, Christina, is to generalize by presuming that all people, especially GGs, follow the same thought processes that you forecast.
That’s easy for you to say. Some will drown (have their lives ruined) if their boat is swamped.
That is because we are a very diverse group, and this is an evolving subject of study. And, the web is notoriously unreliable as a research tool, especially in a forum like this, where all remarks (including mine) are the unsupported statements of one individual.
This is a meeting place for crossdressers (and in some cases their SOs), not a public education site for wives and girlfriends. There are plenty of excellent educational links; a few are listed at the end of this post.
If you are going to throw about a lot of logic terms, you ought to take a refresher course. "Boolean Logic" is a system of notation, not a logical system. “Fuzzy Logic” is a PR term coined by someone in the computing industry.
You are relying on “Inductive Reasoning”. At best, that can get you an “unfalsifiable statement”, not a proof. Even if you have 99 examples all the same, I only need one counterexample to undo your conclusion. Your remarks are also rife with tautologies and contradictions. But, I would let that go were you not wrapping yourself in the flag of logic, to borrow a metaphor.
My, but you seem to know a lot about what’s in other people’s minds. Are you telepathic? You are quite fond of the word “confirmed”. Would not “supported” be the more appropriate term?
This is another utterly unsupported generalization. "Isn’t a mature woman"? Some TGs have been living 24x7 for decades. "Unformed"? Or just not completely formed (the same is true for many GGs of all ages).
I could go on but I trust that everybody gets the point by now.
Just please don’t misquote me any more Regina, especially about something so inflammatory. And Christina, if you’re going to cite logic for support, how about sticking to the rules of conventional logic?
Happy Holidays
Rachel
p.s. As promised, here are some good TG Educational Links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender (Wikipedia must be taken with a grain of salt, but this one seems to have been carefully done).
http://www.altsex.org/transgender/ (very comprehensive with lingo and technical information)
http://www.debradavis.org/gecpage/gectransinfo.html
http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-transgender-related-topics
More links about Jung:
As I mentioned earlier, this is hardly a new concept. It's just been out of favor in mainstream psychiatry for a long time. DSM IV says that there are only Transsexuals with "Gender Identity Disorder" and "fetish crossdressers". All I can say is that for people who don't exist, there sure are a lot of us! A movement is underway to get GID removed from the DSM, just as homosexuality was in 1973. I hope that doesn't take another 10 years, but I'm not holding my breath.
Jung called a man's inner female the "Anima", and a woman's inner male the "Animus". Every woman has an Animus and every man an Anima, not just the transgendered.
Here are some links for those interested in the evolution and history of this concept:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/cathytg/anima.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung
http://www.mythsdreamssymbols.com/animaanimus2.html
http://www.jungcircle.com/muse/lexicon.html
http://www.francisdunnery.com/I%20think/In%20Support%20Of%20gender%20Roles.htm
http://www.compilerpress.atfreeweb.com/1.%20Jungian%20Lexicon.htm
In another time's forgotten space
Your eyes looked through your mother's face
Wildflower seed and sand and stone
May the four winds blow you safely home
- Robert Hunter
This thread has totally gone off topic and is now being closed.
Administrator
Missing my Libra babe Sherlyn, I hope she's rocking up there with the angels
Missing our Rianna, doesn't seem right, gone to early, hope she's partying with Sherlyn
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