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  1. #51
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    So the first thing my wife said to me tonight was: "You know we're going to end up getting a divorce, right? I'm just not strong enough to deal with this."

    She asked my how my visit with my therapist went. I told her about it. I omitted telling her that I prayed for death a lot - I didn't think that would probably help make my case for why we should stay together. (I do pray for death a lot.)

    I did give her the name of a therapist / conselor she could meet with, independent of mine, who will maybe help with this issue, if it can be helped.

    I told her my therapist and I mostly talked about my anxiety, which we did in fact do.

    So she asks "what does wearing clothes do for you? How can that relieve anxiety? What if that isn't enough someday?"

    I told her that it didn't make much sense to me either, and that this wasn't well understood scientifically. I told her that I believed this helped me express the feminine side of my personality, and that this part of me was fighting to get out. I told her I couldn't predict the future, and whether or not cross dressing would always be enough. I don't know. I do feel pretty sure that I don't want a sex change. (I omitted mentioning that I'd really ultimately like to have no body hair, and I'd really like breasts. Maybe I'll change my mind about the latter - it isn't a real practical idea.)

    I explained to her that I seem to have two personas, and that switching between them is a little weird, and that this is hard to understand for me still. (Maybe that isn't even true - but I think it may be.) I told her that I felt like Lon Chaney, in "The wolfman", this really nice guy, really sad guy - feels cursed. He is cursed, because he's super nice, until he turns into a monster that eats your face. I at least don't maul people. I just put on women's clothes sometimes.

    She asked me bluntly "Do you want to look like a woman? Because you DO NOT look like a woman?" So this was a hard question - I temporized, because the answer is "yes, I want to look like a woman, at least part of me IS a woman, I just got really crappy raw material to work with", but I didn't think that would go over well, so I told her "yes, sometimes I want to look like a woman - I need to express that. I know I'll never be pretty - If I can get to 'Mrs. Doubtfire', I'll feel pretty good about it."

    "Are you going to want to leave the house - what's the point of looking good if you just stay here?" This was a perceptive question, and the obvious answer to me is "hell yeah, I want to look better and go out of the house, are you kidding me?!?!" But I lied and just said "I dunno hon, I'm not remotely ready to leave the house yet (true), and it's too early to say whether or not I'll want to. (probably a lie)."

    In my defense, I feel that refraining from speculation about the future is not quite the same as a lie. (Go easy on me here - re-read the opening remark.)

    She asked if this was ever going to stop - since we'd gone through most of our marriage without my cross dressing. I told her that given that this had happened to me a couple of other times in my life, and based on what I read, that I was not optimistic that it would go away. I told her not to count on it, that it was extremely unlikely.

    I told her that I was willing to hide this from her so she didn't have to deal with it if it meant I could keep her. I'm hoping we can get past that, but if we can't, I'm hoping that I can mostly keep the cross dressing out of her face. I am willing to try - I don't know what I can promise though, and I told her that, too. There's a very real possibility that there will be no really acceptable middle-ground here. I'm hoping, though, that with some counseling, she'll ease up a little bit. Maybe not though.

    Oh yeah - I'm out to another person now. She told one of her friends. Hope she'll keep her mouth shut. If not, well, I hope it's OK for my wife. For me - meh - I don't care. Her friends first words were "this doesn't change how I feel about him." We'll see how it goes. If I lose some friends, well, I'm used to isolation anyway. My wife is not, so I hope it's OK. I did tell her that I didn't mind that she told her best friend - that I didn't want her to feel isolated by this, as I've always been. That isolation is a horrible feeling. I told her this was one of the things I felt guilty about in telling her the truth - the fear that she'd be isolated as well. I still fear this. I hope her friend is discrete.

    I did tell her that she should consider the possibility that my feminine side (Paula is as yet unnamed to her - I think that's still too much), has been present all along in our relationship, and that it's likely the part of me that cries in movies, is really sentimental, and is good at shopping. That while this side of me coming out on its own is admittedly weird and new, that if she really thinks about it - it all has to still be me. I think she's still skeptical on this one!

    So we finally circled back to the start of the conversation.

    I told her that if we just couldn't find a middle ground, if she was physically repulsed by me now, or if she just could not live with me and be happy, that I'd do everything I could do to make it easy on her, and to keep her life here intact. I told here I didn't want to go there, and I'd move heaven and earth, at least the parts that are within my grasp, to keep that from happening. But if it had to happen, I'd rather she be happy, and I'd do what I could to make that happen, even if it was without me.

    She did allow that she knew I couldn't sacrifice everything either - that it wasn't right or possible for me to carry the entire burden of this.

    We hugged at the end. She told me she hates feeling distant from me, but for now, that's how it has to be.

    This is mostly going about as I expected. I'm not optimistic. I intend to keep trying - but I don't think she'll ever adjust to this part of me.

    Still, early days. Maybe the counselor will be magical or something. He is supposed to be the best in the state for these issues. Hopefully he doesn't try to convince her of the beauty of helping a man transition into womanhood. The information she's found so far has been all about that - and it scared the hell out of her. (For the record, at least so far, I do not want to have a vagina.)

  2. #52
    AKA Jenni Aly Jenni Yumiko's Avatar
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    I feel for you and have heard all of those words come out of my wife's mouth at one point or another. I think, as we discussed before your farther down the gender spectrum than I, but if your wife ever wants to talk to my wife, i'm all for it. Maybe they will get together and realise it's just clothes, or they will decide to get the same divorce lawyer. Who knows. I think though my wife now has some solid evidence that it's not something you catch, so maybe she can help? Im giving demo's until lunch tomorrow but you can yim or text me while I wait for plane :-)
    Dont give up, your doing the right thing, and if she wante dto leave you I think she wouldnt be talking to you about it, it would be more yelling and name calling and thigns to taht effect.

  3. #53
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    You've taken a big step. It could take a while for her and you to really understand just how it is going to change the relationship. The good is at least you are not keeping this big part of you secret anymore and she gets to know you more completely.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by arbon View Post
    The good is at least you are not keeping this big part of you secret anymore and she gets to know you more completely.
    Thanks Theresa, I sure hope that's how it ultimately works out. She may never want to know about this part of me, and if not, well, I don't think that hiding from her is really a stable long-term solution. I watched my grandparents and their DADT relationship with my grandfather's second family. I'd rather die alone than watch my wife go through what my grandmother went through. So we'll try it for a time, while the relationship heals up. If we can't get past this, then we just can't.

  5. #55
    My Ship has sailed? Barbara Ella's Avatar
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    Paula, I am so glad to see in your recent post that you two are talking. That is positive, even if some of the thoughts that come out while talking are not totally to either's liking. Getting these diverse thoughts and concerns out on the table is so much better than letting them fester internally. She needs the reassurances you are offering without the specifics right now. Her feelings/thoughts/opinions will change continually from one day to the next, and may be contradictory, but don't point this out, just accept it for the moment and respond with what you can. This is a long haul situation and thoughts of the day are only that, thoughts to build a conversation around. Just keep the conversation going.

    Barbara
    He (she) who would learn to fly one day must first learn to stand and walk and run and climb and dance.
    - Friedrich Nietzche -
    I may never get to fly like the other girls, but I do so want to dance, so I continue to climb.

  6. #56
    Member DaniG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulaQ View Post
    Hopefully he doesn't try to convince her of the beauty of helping a man transition into womanhood. The information she's found so far has been all about that - and it scared the hell out of her.
    My wife went on a research blitz too, and all the information she found was all about transition. She concluded that pretty much everyone TG/TS transitions, even though we all know that's not true. But there's no evidence or testimonials of anyone who stayed and was successful and happy. I guess to a degree that makes sense because they blend back into life and probably try not to ever think about it again, but it sure would help the rest of us sitting on the fence to be able to look over both sides and get a good evaluation.

    So what of it? Is anyone here aware of any data or testimonials of those that opted out of transition long term and were fine? Or does the GD monster get everyone eventually?

    Dani

    P.S. My wife made me promise to write one of these myself if I decide not to and make it.

  7. #57
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    when confronted with adversity, most people don't think they can make it. And yet they do. There is a lot for your wife to process. You have 2 months on her at least (and really more since you have lived with it your whole life). The nice thing about this forum is that there are women who have been there and they can empathize. When (if) she is ready sometime, we welcome her so she can see that what is out in everyday public, isn't what the majotity are doing (and thus one reason "we" have to work on getting out where "we" can be seen).

    Don't let her make her statement a self-fulling prophecy. If she cannot see the other options then divorce will happen. But you both have to derail that train BEFORE it leaves the station (I channel Dr Phil so much it scares me)
    The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
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    “Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaniG View Post
    So what of it? Is anyone here aware of any data or testimonials of those that opted out of transition long term and were fine? Or does the GD monster get everyone eventually?
    I've talked with several girls here who are happy, and have not transitioned. There is absolutely a middle-path, and it is viable for many I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by lorileah
    But you both have to derail that train BEFORE it leaves the station (I channel Dr Phil so much it scares me)
    You are right Lorileah. You know something, early on, we faced tough problems when we were first together, and my wife didn't like that I could seem a little passive, a little too concilatory sometimes. And she threatened to go then too. But somehow I always talked her out of it. We'll try it this time too.

    @ Barbara Ella - you are right, it is positive that she's still asking questions. Hey, if she shuts me out and makes up her mind, and won't listen to me at all, well, it's a LOT tougher for me to do anything about it. Right now though, I'm still in the game.

  9. #59
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    Amazingly positive progress

    My wife and I had a really good talk last night. She went to a therapist who specializes in gender issues. (His child is a FtM transexual so this is real for him.)

    She's realized that pulling away from me only hurts us both. She's still mad at me for jeapordizing our future plans, but her therapist pointed out "you know, your husbands transgender or not, most of that stuff you were planning on is totally beyond your control anyway, right?"

    She's still worried that if I'm really trans, I'll start hormones and my penis will eventually be gone. She knows that's a possibility. All I could tell her was "hon, I've only understood this about myself for two months. I can't promise where it's going, but I've talked to other girls here who find a middle path and don't transition, and that this is my goal - I don't want our sex life to change. It isn't the only thing about our relationship, but it is a corner-stone, and I don't want to lose it. And honestly, a lot of the steps for transition scare the hell out of me, I'm not ready to think about them, and don't know whether they'll even be right for me."

    She told me she's still not ready to see me dress - and that's fine. I agreed to not shave anything else until later. There's time, and we need to go slow. She did say I should shave my legs again, and underdressing was fine. She wants me to feel happy. This is huge progress!

    This morning she was telling me she was looking for shoes, and I told her I'd like to shop with her sometimes - I've always liked shoes. So we talked about shoes for me. We both love shoes. Somehow we ended up with her painting my toenails. She said "you know, it's just nail polish, and you can wear socks or slippers around the house and nobody has to see 'em." I am sure I'll return the favor for her and paint her toes.

    She's trying HARD - that is my take on this. Really, really hard. When my wife makes up her mind to do something - she does it. I need to be careful not to push too hard, or not to overdo this. And I know there'll likely be times when something that was previously fine will suddenly not be fine. It is give and take, and I've told her that we just need to keep talking, and do what's comfortable for the both of us.

    I know we have a LONG way to go, and that there will be setbacks along the way. And I know I need to be super-mindful of her, and to make sure HER needs are met too. I did tell her that her shoe budget was going up, as a start! I am going to be going through a lot of changes here, and I want to be sure she doesn't feel cheated - she needs to feel good too.

    BTW, last night and this morning are really a lot more positive than I'd ever dared to hope for. I know there's still a long way to go, and I know there will be hard times, but what a difference, huh?

    I really love my wife. Marrying her is the only decision I've ever made in my lifetime that I was 100% sure of. I had NO DOUBT. I'm stunned by what an amazing woman she is. I mean, I knew she was amazing, but she is trying HARD here.

  10. #60
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    Hi Paula, lots going on for you! I sincerely hope you are able to find a middle ground that works for you

  11. #61
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    Thanks Theresa. We'll just have to see. I'm bound and determined to see this through, explore, be honest with my feelings, and see where it takes me. I know what I want - I want to stay married. But I also know that my gender identity has a mind of it's own, and so what will happen will happen. So I'll try stuff, learn and grow, and we'll see what happens.

    My wife and I talked a little about the worst case. If I transition, the marriage is definitely over - she needs a man. She does feel that we'd stay friends and have a close relationship. I agree with her on both counts. I hope it doesn't come to that - but I'm not going to fight this. I'll let it develop, and figure out what I need to do to stay sane and be happy. I'll try my damndest though to make sure that includes my wife, because it is hard to imagine the concept of "happiness" without her in my life.

  12. #62
    Junior Member mollycd99's Avatar
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    Wow. So many ups and downs I get whiplash just reading! Glad you're on an up note now!

  13. #63
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    So thoroughly happy for you, my friend. I do hope she can go the distance, and you can be what she needs! Whatever happens, enjoy the here and now together. XXX

  14. #64
    Member andrea lace's Avatar
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    At least you can now move out of Liarsburg City Hall. Well done for being so brave.
    Hope all goes well for you and your wife.

  15. #65
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    At least you can now move out of Liarsburg City Hall
    !!!
    I - I never thought of that! I am speechless.

  16. #66
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    Great to hear that you are making progress with this.

  17. #67
    Aspiring Member TeresaCD's Avatar
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    Good news Paula. I am happy that she is coming to terms with it.
    I get to have pretty toenails too!
    (Feels funny under steel capped labourer's boots)
    Keep rolling along, showing her how much she means to you.

  18. #68
    Lady in Being (7/20/17) AmyGaleRT's Avatar
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    Paula, I'm so happy for you. Things appear to be going really, really well so far. Just stay focused on her and let her continue to get used to the idea.

    I'm probably one of the girls you use as an example. I can't abandon my male self, and don't really want to, but neither do I want to keep the girl bottled inside. And I'm feeling more "centered" as my Amy-self than I have been.

    Perhaps one day you'll get to a situation like I have, where I can walk into the living room and ask my fiancee, "How do I look? Is my makeup all right?" Then I go back into the bedroom to get my purse and have her say, "Love you, be safe!" as I walk out the front door.

    - Amy
    Amy Gale Ruth Bowersox (nee Tapie) - "Be who you are, and be it in style!"
    Member, Board of Trustees, Gender Identity Center of Colorado
    aka Amelia Storm - Ms. Majestic Hearts of All Colorado 2018-2019, Miss Majestic Hearts of All Colorado 2015-2016

  19. #69
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    i wish you good luck, i had exactly the same emotions as you in regards to my wife. I felt terrible (i still do) about how much me being a CD hurt her and how helpless i felt because i just couldn't change. I would always regret not telling her before marriage and i have to live with that.

  20. #70
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    Well, we had a good weekend, but a bad day today. One of our kids visited over the weekend, and it was nice. However, today, my wife wants nothing to do with me. She's sad because she feels like life will never be normal again. My step-son looks up to me - he said it many times over the weekend. I think the idea that I'm something other that what he knows bothers her, and that to her, it seems like our world is changing forever.

    I don't really blame her for feeling this way - it is probably true that things will never be exactly the same again, and that they'll change a lot.

    Hopefully she'll feel better in a day or two, and spend a little more time with me.

    I know two steps forward / one step back is pretty normal. And I don't, for a minute, blame her for how she feels. I've had all these same emotions myself.

  21. #71
    Aspiring Member Stevie's Avatar
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    That is very difficult. She is looking out for the best interest of the children. I have a hard time dealing with the same issue.

  22. #72
    Aspiring Member TeresaCD's Avatar
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    No doubt your world is changjng, Paula, hopefully for the better in the end. Love the new avatar, btw!

  23. #73
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    I'd been married for 15 1/2 yrs. when I had the same conversation with my wife. Initially she took the news similarly to your wife, but that didn't last long. My wife was in counseling for two years. That was about four years ago and we're still together but not because she has accepted on some level, my crossdressing. She and I are no longer intimate, haven't been for over three years. When we were married we were the best of friends and it is upon that foundation that we are able to stay together. We are living together as partners in life without any intimacy. Amazingly, our friends and family have no idea because we chose not to tell. We both realize our lives are better off together than apart. I occasionally visit this site because I'm curious how others in our situation are doing. I hope some day my wife will "want me" again.
    Amazingly, since I told her - as much as I enjoyed crossdressing and had an extensive wardrobe - I cut all ties with my crossdressing friends and have not even once felt I wanted to cross dress. The entire experience was so tramatic for me (witnessing the difficut time my wife had with my admission) it has taken the joy out of it. I believe your fears for the future are valid.

  24. #74
    Making a life for Tina! suchacutie's Avatar
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    Hi Paula. I was traveling last week and didn't see this thread. I do think that my experiences might give you and your wife a bit of a different perspective on what you are discussing.

    I had no idea I was transgendered until 7 years ago. My wife and I discovered "Tina" together (PM me if you want to know those details). What immediately fascinated her was that it was clear that Tina had been there hiding all along, so my wife wanted to know what Tina was like! I was as curious as she, so we immediately made some working agreements that have stood us in good stead:

    1) I am not changing my male role in our relationship. I committed to that male role upon marriage and I will not go back on my commitment. The codicil to that is "when she wants her man, she gets him". There are just times that she wants the regular relationship and I think it's totally unfair to deny that to her, especially considering that she is completely supportive of giving life to Tina!

    2) Tina is a joint project between the two of us, and is private. Your wife has already gone beyond that. I'm not sure if that will be positive in the long run, but that's where you are.

    3) My wife is completely heterosexual, so she and Tina are platonic girlfriends. Frankly, that stipulation has made the friendship between my wife and Tina just terrific! Tina "comes to visit" and they do "girl things" that my male self just could never put up with. How Tina enjoys chick-flicks is beyond my comprehension!

    Now, how does this work? The short answer is: very well! The details are even more important:

    1) We started talking about what it is to grow up as a girl, and the intimacy of comparing our experiences growing up (with my wife knowing that I was incredibly interested) was amazing. We shared things that didn't seem to be important or even a reasonable topic of conversation before!

    2) She started educating Tina about the mechanics of being a girl. She treated Tina as if she were growing up slowly and let Tina experience the process (albeit at a rapidly accelerated rate) from shaping eyebrows (a multiyear project) to makeup to fashion sense to deportment to explaining what girls do and when they do it! Nothing was off the table and she corrected at every turn. When she had Tina try on one of her dresses and it became clear that Tina didn't have enough "on top", it was off to order breastforms. When it came to hair, it was my wife explaining what style would initially work best (it did!).

    3) My wife engaged Tina in converstions about her likes and dislikes, even when Tina wasn't sure how to answer. We wanted to understand Tina and this was amazingly helpful.

    4) As we understood Tina more, we simultaneously began to understand my masculine side more as well. The person who I was had been a bit of a blend, and now it's actually easier to be more masculine! I'm sure your wife has not thought about that, but right now I'm pretty sure that your gender identity is a bit confused. For example, once you are adept at walking in heels, Paula's gait and your male gait will separate. You will actually walk more like a male in masculine mode! So, if your wife wants more of a masculine man, she very well might get her wish by having you understand who Paula is!

    5) Tina is now pretty well understood, so she's become a virtual person. My wife and I talk about her (of course, Tina and my wife talk about me!). Something will come up and one of us might say, "Tina would handle that real well!". That separation of the masculine and feminine part of you can be eye-opening and very positive!

    6) Tina has allowed my wife and I to recommit to our relationship in ways we never imagined. We are closer and share more of everything. After all, no subject is off the table of interest! Obviously, we share beauty products. We share ideas about how to improve our aging skin! We share clothing ideas. We love to shop together. The list is endless. However, I'm still the person who fixes the broken whatever, throws around the chain saws when necessary, paints the house, plants the garden, and basically gets dirty when needed. Tina wouldn't think about getting dirty, but there is a whole list of things that belong to her world!

    Fundamentally, we have found that having a husband and a platonic girlfriend can be just incredibly positive! The key is to explore this together. Your wife can very well be Paula's mentor, knowing that her man is only 30 minutes away (time to transition back) at any time!

    Please feel free to show her this entry if you think it will help. I do hope that the spirit of love between you will win out. It can be a terrific life!
    Last edited by suchacutie; 04-16-2013 at 12:27 PM. Reason: typos

  25. #75
    Wayfarer EmilyPith's Avatar
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    Suchacutie, your post gave me chills... some serious similarities to Emily's emergence here!

    PaulaQ... there is hope, take each day as an adventure, and stay positive!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Emily

    We're the ones who start little fires, yet they burn out
    But when they're on the rise, we can't help but shine

    And when the wave approaches, take our ashes to the ocean
    Who cares if hell awaits? We're having drinks at heaven's gate

    "Modern Jesus" Portugal (The Man)

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