My gay hairdresser is prejudice???

[whowhatwhen]

Moe also said that about Curly.

[ReineD]

Being gay or TG does not mean that someone is not prejudiced. Consider that there are CDs that do not like, for whatever reason, to associate with TS people, and vice versa. It does not surprise me at all that a particular gay person might not want to associate with a TS person.

Also, how many straight CDs are quick to say they enjoy presenting as a woman and in the same breath, they adamantly pronounce that they're NOT gay. Prejudice runs both ways.

As to your friend's reaction, Natalie, I'm not surprised. We had a long running thread sometime last year, I believe it was close to 8-10 pages. The OP asked how all his gay CD friends in the forum were doing, relationship wise. The majority of our gay members reported similar experiences as our straight members: gay boyfriends disliked their partners crossdressing just as much as straight GGs. This makes sense, because gay men like men and not women.

And bisexuals are not guaranteed to accept the CDing either. I had a friend who said that she liked her men to be men, and her women to be women. In another thread that I read a few minutes ago, members have said the same thing about some bisexuals they know too.

I am so looking forward to the time where society will accept that gender is not binary. We really do need to start teaching our kids about gender and sexual variance in schools.

[arbon]

I am not surprised at all. There is so much difference between the groups, why should they get it any more then anyone else. And like Eryn said look at the divide even within the tg community especially between CD's and TS's

I do have some good gay friends. One of whom I confided a great deal about my gender struggles in. He had a hard time understanding, it is outside his experience. But he tried.

I always find it funny to when people get to know I am trans how many of them will then tell me about their gay friends or family member, the guy down at the chevron that is gay....you know. its just weird oh you are trans you are part of the gayness, part of them. And really no I'm not. And they have no experience with being trans because there are not. So I say well mybe my gay friends can get together with yuor gay friends and have a good time.

[ReineD]

I do have some good gay friends. One of whom I confided a great deal about my gender struggles in. He had a hard time understanding, it is outside his experience. But he tried.

This bears keeping in mind, because it's important.

It's easy to feel prejudiced about a faceless category of people based on nebulous, vague stereotypes. BUT it's been my experience that most people, as long as they are arm's length (not spouses, parents, children, bosses, etc), have a change of heart once when they actually interact at length with the real person and realize this is someone who is not much different than they are ... someone who just wants to live their life and be happy too.

I'll bet my bottom dollar, Natalie, that if you had told your stylist that you crossdress, he would have been surprised and you might have helped him to realize there are actually some very nice, ordinary people who do crossdress.

Baby steps.

[flatlander_48]

its just weird oh you are trans you are part of the gayness, part of them. And really no I'm not. And they have no experience with being trans because there are not.

No, I don't think it works like that. As a bisexual male, I have no experience with being lesbian. Further, even though I crossdress, I have no experience with transgender. Even though I have no direct experience, I've made it a point to try to understand what is going on for people. Therefore, philosophically and politically, I choose to align myself with the LGBT community. It doesn't do us any good to separate ourselves. Society at large doesn't; why should we?

[Jenniferathome]

Also, how many straight CDs are quick to say they enjoy presenting as a woman and in the same breath, they adamantly pronounce that they're NOT gay. Prejudice runs both ways.

Reine, I do not think this is the same thing. When the straight CDers write that they are straight, I believe it is because of the stereotype that cross dressers are gay. The presumption is being corrected and is not necessarily a backhanded slight of gay people.

[Julogden]

Sorry to hear about your hairdresser. I'm appalled to hear something like that, but there are prejudiced people in all walks of life.

I was around the gay community for many years in the 1980's and 1990's, and honestly never experienced anything like that. I had a lesbian roommate for 5 years and she had no issues with me being transgendered. Two bartenders and one of the waiters, all gay men, at the Baton in Chicago were great friends, hugely supportive to me when I began going out dressed, as well as others at other places. Later, I was a regular at a nearby lesbian bar, and the vast majority of the women were friendly and supportive too, made some very nice friends there.

Carol

[Lorileah]

When the straight CDers write that they are straight, I believe it is because of the stereotype that cross dressers are gay. The presumption is being corrected and is not necessarily a backhanded slight of gay people.

And maybe the gay person is in the same boat where the lay community believes that CDs are gay and they need to correct that also. I think we should all be together and work toward one equal standard, but the CDs who quote

I am NOT gay!!!!

at every turn are really no better than the gay who says they don't want anything to do with the TG community. They are both living in a stereotypic world. Screaming for the rooftops is not a backhanded way of slighting gays, it is blatant. Funny how one can see their own ox being gored but ignore their neighbor's

I still say that the hairdresser needs a quick lesson in empathy and tolerance. Reine is right, this is a two way street. A narrow two way street where eventually there will be a head on collision.

[Darla]

Okay - two options. One, tell him your TG or TS or CD and educate him on how that hurt your feelings, and that NO - it's not a choice. Outcome: possibly effect some change in one persons life. Risk: outing yourself, but maybe gaining some deeper understanding of his views.

Or find another hairdresser.

Or - tee her - bring in a wig and ask him to style it a little better.

Darla

[whowhatwhen]

If you're going for the chew-him-out method it's probably better to wait until he's no longer holding scissors.
o_o

[PaulaQ]

And maybe the gay person is in the same boat where the lay community believes that CDs are gay and they need to correct that also.

That seems unlikely Lorileah, with all due respect. I think it's much more likely that either:
- TG/TS is somewhat embarrasing to him, because we get lumped in with gay folks
- People who are victims of prejudice are sometimes quite prejudiced themselves. It's human nature to look down on others, and we're lower on the social stratum.

I think we should all be together and work toward one equal standard, but the CDs who quote

I am NOT gay!!!

at every turn are really no better than the gay who says they don't want anything to do with the TG community. They are both living in a stereotypic world.

I think this is a good point. I think I'm not going to answer questions about my sexuality anymore, at least with respect to being TG. It is irrelevant, and a distraction. At the very least, I'll no longer volunteer this information.

The thing about people who feel the need to shout out their sexual preference when talking about their gender identity is that I think that some of us may want to feel like "well, at least I'm not gay!" The irony, of couse, is that from most of society's perspective, being gay is a LOT more acceptable and understood than being CD/TG/TS. (Contrast states that allow gay marriage vs. states that want to restrict where TG folks can go to the restroom...)

[Barbara Dugan]

I took a break from the site from the site for some time and it's good to know things remain the same ....I would suggest everyone to take a peak at the forum from Straight Acting.COM...it will give you a better understanding of the gay community:2c:

[whowhatwhen]

What do you mean?
The (NOT GAY) or "some of my best friends are dirty, disgusting f*****s but I don't want them getting murrayed"?

[Rogina B]

LGBTQ..We all fall under the 'queer"umbrella as far as the rest of the world thinks. And there is nothing wrong with that.Individual opinions don't represent a whole group,and some people are just opinionated anyway..water off a duck's back..

[Jenniferathome]

And maybe the gay person is in the same boat where the lay community believes that CDs are gay and they need to correct that also.

No Lorileah, you need to re-read the OP. This gay hair dresser was actively denigrating someone who was TS. Even refusing to go in to a store because they had a purse. THAT does not equate, in the remotest sense, to a stereotypical correction or a simple statement of fact.

[flatlander_48]

One thing to think about:

Whenever you contradict someone, and in this case it's some pretty deep-seated stuff, you have to do it in such a way that people can still hear you. If you belittle or make light of someone's prejudices, they have all they need to stop listening to you...

[Natalie Wood]

I love this forum. Reading the posts on this issue really have allowed me to see many angles related to this. I like that most of us here can disagree, offer different views and opinions and do it respectfully.

Darla...lol I like your idea of going in with a wig. Ha ha that would be awesome. And Jennifer, I love your level-headed, straight to the point views. You rock!

Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts.

[Loni]

I am not so great with the words, but Melissa rose has said it about the best way one can.

Loni

[Ressie]

I think a lot of this is the hairdresser didn't want attention drawn to himself in the store. Even if he's openly gay doesn't mean he wants to walk around with another guy carrying a purse. But if his friend is transitioning it seems that - 1. his friend may be TS, hence is born this way, 2. if he were prejudiced why would he be friends with the TG anyway?

We all have choices, but the logical choice is to be true to yourself.

[flatlander_48]

I think a lot of this is the hairdresser didn't want attention drawn to himself in the store.

In the work and professional sense, what you said is the origin of the notion: "Bring your whole self to work.". So many LGBT people have invested a lot of energy in flying under the radar or almost being anonymous in order to avoid attracting attention. Attention is bad because it often brings questions. Questions are bad because people usually expect answers and you have to decide how much of the truth you are willing to reveal. So yes, attempting to remain anonymous can be a strong motivator; unfortunately...

[NicoleScott]

What is this obsession with "I am NOT gay" being the same as gay-hating? Especially if someone says that to factually correct a misconception that many have that CDers are gay. In another thread (or two, I think) Reine stated that she did not hold hands in public when her SO in en femme beause she did not want to be seen as a lesbian. I have no problem with this - saying or doing something so people won't think a person is gay if they aren't and choose not to be thought of as gay.

[Aly Cat]

My GG coworker (One of the 4 people who know) is bi and she looks at me like some science experiment. She is roommates with 3 gay men and all of them are baffled with me. Im straight, but love to wear womens clothing. None of them have ever heard of such a thing. They certainly arent against it, but she is always asking me questions about what I like, gender preference, etc. She loves it and wants me to go to PRIDE with her in downtown later this year. I highly doubt I will be able to and am not entirely sure its appropriate anyways since I am in fact married. I still like that I am accepted by her and her friends, but I sort of feel like a lab rat lol.

[flatlander_48]

What is this obsession with "I am NOT gay" being the same as gay-hating?

Clearly, it is not an automatic. Possible, but not automatic.

That said, one has to weigh the response given. Personally, my yardstick may be summed up by: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks". Making a point is one thing, but the intensity anf frequency may suggest a different story.

This is really interesting to me because it could be quite a unique opportunity for all of you.

My GG coworker (One of the 4 people who know) is bi and she looks at me like some science experiment.

In other times, this would have been like someone's first Asian, Black, Jewish, gay, etc. (fill in the blank) friend. People have a little bit of information, a lot of misinformation and a ton of gaps in between. You are outside of her/their realm of experience (at least for now).

She is roommates with 3 gay men and all of them are baffled with me. Im straight, but love to wear womens clothing. None of them have ever heard of such a thing.

Traveling in the circles they do, they just had not run into someone like you before. A bit of Birds of a Feather perhaps.

They certainly arent against it, but she is always asking me questions about what I like, gender preference, etc. She loves it and wants me to go to PRIDE with her in downtown later this year. I highly doubt I will be able to and am not entirely sure its appropriate anyways since I am in fact married.

That's a tricky subject...

I still like that I am accepted by her and her friends, but I sort of feel like a lab rat lol.

I can see how this feels odd to you as I assume it is sort of outside of your realm of experience also. However, this is a great opportunity for all to understand what's happening for folks in other parts of the community. After all, it is LGBT, or to paint a broader picture, we are all somewhere under the umbrella of sexual minorities. There aren't many situations where one can learn and educate simultaneously. SOunds like a really cool situation to me...

[whowhatwhen]

What is this obsession with "I am NOT gay" being the same as gay-hating? Especially if someone says that to factually correct a misconception that many have that CDers are gay. In another thread (or two, I think) Reine stated that she did not hold hands in public when her SO in en femme beause she did not want to be seen as a lesbian. I have no problem with this - saying or doing something so people won't think a person is gay if they aren't and choose not to be thought of as gay.

Because (NOT GAY) is quite often used with a tone of "NO! I'M NOT ONE OF THEM" as if being gay or even being perceived as being gay is an insult or affront to them.
I'm not saying that's the case in every instance but it certainly raises eyebrows when people are so quick to distance themselves.

Even here, of all places on the internet homophobia and transphobia exist.
Hell, just look on the 1st page where someone just had to mention how gay people are undeserving of the oh so sacred institution of marriage.
Hell, we've had people here defend the bloody Family Research Council so you can see why some of us are a bit iffy when someone goes to lengths to mention just how straight they are.

[flatlander_48]

Those of us in the LGBT community (and I'm throwing the blanket over ALL of us here) as just as good at Compartmentalized Thinking as anyone else.

Definition of COMPARTMENTALIZATION

: isolation or splitting off of part of the personality or mind with lack of communication and consistency between the parts

There is a good illustration of this principle at http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_UwFXgtgd7q...AEfU3X8/s1600/