Compromises to save a mariage

[Aly Cat]

Soo...I am not going to offer any advice because I am in the same place as you!! I do not identify as being transsexual...just a crossdresser who loves womens clothing. It is however a major part of who I am. My wife gave me an ultimatum about 3 weeks ago now I guess that pretty much said...continue and get out, stay and stop, or do it and know that every time you do, it really hurts me. I can't intentionally hurt anyone regardless of who they are so that gave me two choices.
Like you, I have stayed for the kids. Its the toughest thing ive ever had to do, not crossdressing. It is so ingrained in me. I had to give up my wardrobe to her and let everything go. I'm scraping by for the time being until I can get counselling for myself and marriage counselling. On the path I am on now, I foresee disaster but its what I had to agree on to keep some peace for if nothing else just a little while longer.

So yes, I totally understand the position you are in completely and sympathize with you 100%. Hang in there gurl well make it...one way or another.

[AllieSF]

I think that I understand where you are coming from and where you hope that this hopefully temporary compromise will get both of you. I would put less faith in the monkey look and your increased moments of frustration when it becomes too much to follow those rules which you have agreed to. I would put a lot of time in finding a very good and qualified gender therapist and more faith in his/her ability to get both of you on the right track that lets you progress toward where you need to be and who you are. If she can better understand what all this really means to you, maybe she will be better able to come to terms with it, and if not, be better able to make a mature decision as what to do about her role in the relationship.

If after this period, plus or minus, she still wants to keep in place strict rules for your behavior, then I think what the others' above are saying definitely comes into play. Good luck.

[Julie Gaum]

Lynn, I want to try to boil down the issues: 1. Most members see your situation is hopeless in the long run but as Dawn commented you agreed to four months so do that so at least you have done your part. 2. If you both see a FULLY QUALIFIED therapist there is a slim possibility that the result will be that your wife will understand that you don't have options - you are what you will always be. More likely
that it will be wasted money but you agreed to it so do it. 3. Financial: you did say that you're broke and we are not aware whether your spouse works but with 3 very young kids, probably not. So in the few months remaining you must try to figure out how to handle a split as the children must be supported. I would guess your spouse is "cutting off her nose to spite her face" when the bread winner leaves the nest
so, without knowing the details, she is obviously going down the wrong path for her future welfare for indeed she is driving you away.
4. Love - a hard word to understand. The posting members have serious doubts that it's mutual no matter what both your pasts revealed. We can't sit at a PC and tell you what is in your heart but carefully consider her recent dominating actions before decision making time at end of August, for as noted above numerous times her actions have been very one-sided and that doesn't spell LOVE. 5. "Staying for kids' sake" has been proved a false reason 99% of the time. Children at an amazingly young age can feel and react to tension and verbal fights - they are worse off, for the experience will taint their life-times. and finally 6. Renegotiate what in September? A compromise that you BOTH can live with? Unless the chosen therapist is a miracle worker - which is possible - there is no compromise on the horizon.
All I can add is "God Bless"
Julie

[Ann Louise]

I see you're 34 years old, and haven't mentioned any children. I also see you're a musician, and to me that implies that you regularly come in contact with lots of people, probably progressive people your age and younger. It's a big world, and, IMHO, Why Be So Needy? Marriage is a legal contract, not a one-sided psychological suicide pact. What kind of life would you have with such a person? Head out young girl! Go west (or east, or south, or north), but girl-up and Go. Ann L

(BTW, I just completed 18.5 years of child support payments on two kids, so I've literally put my money where my mouth is)

[mary something]

shouldn't you mention that your wife found out that you told a woman that you would "absolutely" find time to cybersex her later? Honey I would have offered her that facebook password before she had the chance to tell you no adult supervision. You need to think about why you want her to treat you like a child, what are you getting out of it? Does being punished make you feel less guilty? It's gonna destroy any respect your wife and children have for you if this becomes a cyclical thing. What is causing you to act out occasionally? Is it intense gd that you aren't managing? Honey you need to make sure you know what you want and what you need because I'm afraid it's about to get "real" very soon if you don't get a handle on this. If you're trying to transition then remember you need all the credibility you can muster right now, unless you're deliberately setting yourself up to fail (that is what trying to show her that your miserable to change her mind is in my opinion, and it's not a good plan honey it's just gonna convince her that you are miserable, nothing more or less). When a miserable person tries to convince me of something I don't listen to them, who does?

The good news is that if you're wanting to transition the fact that you guys have 3 kids that are 5 years old or younger means that there is a very good chance that another woman around the house could be very useful. You are in an excellent situation to show your wife how nice it could be to have.... a wife.

[Lynnmorgan451]

Sooooooooooo if I'm only wanting to transition to the point of NOT cutting off my soldier, then I'm not a transsexual? I mean, regardless, I wouldn't be on this website if I wasn't having issues coping with a gender confusion of sorts. I mean, I am not willing, at this point in my life, to destroy a family, divorce an awesome woman and leave three children without a father, and because I can't afford to transition either I must not be transexual?? I haven't had the opportunity to live as a woman for a year for obviously the same reasons, but that doesn't define anything either. I know what I am inside and out. I am a girl with a penis. I don't even have a masculine body, never did, and I've always had manboobs even before I started hormones, so It wasn't even like I was really trapped in the wrong body, except for that one dangling detail.
I know I WANT to be seen as a woman. I want to look in the mirror everyday and see me looking as cute as I can in age appropriate female clothes. I want my hair to grow out the way it was pretty much my whole life. I want to be accepted by the people who are closest to me. I want to go to work and school and have people hold doors for me and tell me I look pretty or compliment my outfit!
My wants are wishes. Some plausible, some not. But overall I know that in my mind and in my life right now the way things have to be, I am in stealth mode...Like a reverse stealth mode. A woman pretending to be a man in order to preserve the greater good. You gotta do what you gotta do and right now this is my life, and this is what I have to do. I'm going to be leaning on you all a lot in the next few months. I can tell already after 4 days without wearing panties or shaving my legs that I'm going to need you all more than I ever thought I did before. So, THANK YOU ALL for being here because you define my existence!!!!

xoxo

[Rianna Humble]

Lynn, what you describe would certainly make you transgender, but that is not the same as transsexual. Whether you are also TS is partly for you to discover through therapy that will help you to ask yourself the correct questions.

A major distinction between transgender (including Gender Nonconforming according to WPATH) is the desire to have Gender Confirmation Surgery - often referred to as SRS (wrongly imnsho).

[Lynnmorgan451]

A major distinction between transgender (including Gender Nonconforming according to WPATH) is the desire to have Gender Confirmation Surgery - often referred to as SRS (wrongly imnsho).

I looked at that benjamin scale thingy and its just too vague to be accurate. If I had to choose a level though, based on the way I feel I would put me at IV. Maybe. Idk. If I had millions of dollars I would be on HRT the rest of my life, I would get an orchiectomy, breast implants, a shave of the ole' adams apple and maybe a lil face stretch cuz I have a big scar on my forehead I dont like too much. I mean, I don't wanna have "it" cut off because primarily I am afraid of the complications and relearning how to pee, how to get pleasure from sex IF I could ever get pleasure from sex again. I think theres a 30% chance or something?

NOW if there was a MAGIC SPELL that could change me into an ACTUAL GG then HOLY CANOLI batman GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE!!!!

[Angela Campbell]

I feel bad for you, because I can see you are confused and having some bad experiences. The truth is you have made some really bad decisions and when things do not go the way you hoped you made more bad decisions. Stop and look around for a bit and try to find a way to calm things down if it isn't too late.

[jillleanne]

There are two ways in which we live; happy and unhappy. We must individually decide which road to take and live with the repercussions. Adaptation forms an intregal part of every decision. We can accept and appreciate others' feeling, but we cannot truly share in them. Conversely, they cannot truly share ours. We are individuals living individual lives that share only portions of ourselves with others. The parts we do not share are the key to our individual happiness. Life is taken far too serious on planet Earth. Yours, like mine, will only last a very short time. Take advantage of it while you can. There are no second tries at getting it right.

[JohnH]

At the very least your wife should let you shave daily with no moustache or sideburns. That is standard procedure for at least 50 percent of men. And you can see there are cis-gendered males with shaved legs.

John

[melissaK]

Jeepers Lynn Sweetie. It'll take you a month of Sundays to get through all this advice and opinion. And some of it seems spot on.

Lynn, my :2c: is CHILL and DO THE COUNSELLING.

[Sandra1746]

Hi Lynn,
You have restarted the old discussion as to whether someone who wants "some" HRT or GRS is really TS or TG, or crazy. As for me, I am on HRT and would opt for an "orchi" but nothing more. Why, because that would satisfy several medical, hormonal, and persona-problems and would be accepted by my wife. She is OK with HRT, in fact she loves the new, more-mellow me it has produced.

The Benjamin scale is intentionally vague because it is a "psychological profile", there is no TG-gene that can be tested for, just as there is no gay-gene. I do not consider myself TS, but I feel I am TG and somewhere near the upper end of the scale. I see that "attraction to men (homosexual feelings)" is a big part of the scale, well I have no interest in men; and almost none in women either. The scale is not a 1:1 mapping. I have seen folks here argue for and against the Benjamin scale and almost as passionately for, or against the WPATH guidelines; and not always in accord with the points. The curious fact is that Harry Benjamin is responsible for both, and both are now quite old.

Medical opinions and protocols evolve with greater understanding and, especially in gender identity issues, the field is still far from settled. I realize this gives no good "answers" but I fear there are none to be had. Everyone is different and everyone's circumstance is different, you have to find your own path. However it is essential that you do it in a safe (medically supervised) and considerate manner.

Good luck and hugs,
Sandra1746

[Frances]

Hi Lynn,
Please stop saying "cutting it off," "having it cut off," and other permutations. SRS does not involve "cutting off" the "little soldier" or "wang" (your expressions). Also, they remove the catheter five days or so after surgery, and relearning to pee takes about 5 minutes. As for the 30%, I personnaly don't know any trans person who was not sensate afterwards, and I know at least a hundred of post-ops.

[Rianna Humble]

Sandra, if you define 8 months as "quite old", what constitutes "quite recent"?

[RADER]

Lynn:
My wife had a few boundaries with me, but nothing like you have.
My wife was OK with my dressing, however, I did not leave the closet.
I am wondering what is next for you??????
Do you need written permission to go to the Bath Room?
Rader

[Angela Campbell]

I can understand how someone can say they are TS but are not going to transition. It is fear. Fear to do what they want to do (or need to do but they refuse to admit it). You can spend years denying, finding excuses of why you cannot and convince yourself why the reasons are valid. Pulling the trigger is hard and the courage is hard to find. Making a decision that changes not only your life but all around you, and cannot be undone should be a hard decision to make. It makes them no less TS but it can make it hard to know if you are really TS. If you are you know it. You may deny it but you know it in the deepest part of your soul.

Transitioning is an action taken by a very brave transexual. A transexual is what you are not what you do.

[Badtranny]

A transexual is what you are not what you do.

I don't have a quarrel with that.

[mary something]

I agree that you need to get a handle on yourself, as hard as that is to do, and I've been there honey. If you think you have problems to deal with now I can tell you that adding a contentious divorce and all the drama that accompanies it will make everything much worse, and impact how difficult transition will be for you in ways you might not realize right now.

[Lorileah]

These rules were made with the expectation that either you would break them and she could leave you or you would be so miserable, you would suggest leaving (which is what I think she is looking for so that she does not appear to be the bad guy...you will be the one who walks out..not her).

I agree with everyone above, this is a train wreck waiting to happen.

[ReineD]

I haven't had the opportunity to live as a woman for a year for obviously the same reasons, but that doesn't define anything either. I know what I am inside and out. I am a girl with a penis.

You don't have to live as a woman full-time to get a better sense of what you might like to do in the long run. My SO also questioned who she was and she determined to become just as active socially as herself as he had been. At the same time he didn't want to lose his job, so she had the freedom to go out frequently as herself, just not in her own backyard. After having done this for several years, every week and several times per week, plus having taken a week here and a weekend there to go somewhere and be herself for the entire time, she did determine that she was not TS and by that we mean that she has no wish to alter her body in any way, or have a legal name change, or live full time even. But, she didn't really know that until she had lots, and I mean TONS of outings under her belt to everywhere ... errands, restaurants, hiking, shopping, shows, galleries, and a slew of other places that we all go to.

Also, girls don't have penises. There are genetic men who choose to live as men, who are very feminine and who have penises, but they are not TS. They are called gender-variant. My SO is like you and she is not fully male either. There is a thread in this section that describes this, you should read it ... Kathryn Martin's thread about being broken (even though it's not really about being broken :p).

EDIT - So as I was saying, you should stop telling your wife that you are TS if you want more freedom to go out and see what it's all about over the long-term, since she likely has the same definition of TS as I did before I ever knew my SO. I took TS to mean someone who no longer wanted to live male with male body parts in any way. I suspect this is why your wife is being so strict. She's wanting to hang on to her husband because in her heart she doesn't believe that you are a woman, even though I'm sure that she does acknowledge your femininity. There's a huge difference between the two. Sorry if this is harsh, but you did say that you want to continue living as a male.

[Lynnmorgan451]

I don't WANT to continue living as male, I HAVE to.....and...you said earlier that I'm passable?? :-D
I agree with you though about telling my wife I'm TS.....she is probably scared that I want SRS which I.........don't??? Maybe?? Ummm ....grrrrr......I just don't know...which is why I put myself around level four....I know it's not "cutting off" it gets dissected and repurposed BUT......I just ....it's like LASIK eye surgery....it's a great idea, but I think I'll wait until they got a better method than just cutting your eyes to ribbons with a laser.....I'm not smart enough to use the right words here I don't think... :-p

[arbon]

I think you are doing the right thing and should keep living as male.

[stefan37]

But you do want to continue living as a male. You do not want to take any actions to change the course of your life. Hormones are relatively inexpensive, other than lab work and doctor visits, so that excuse is out. But if you make the decision to start hrt, that will put your marriage in jeopardy. You have some hard decisions to make in the next few months about the direction of your life. you also need to start a serious candid discussion with your wife about your goals and ask her what her goals are? From your previous posts and the conditions she has imposed and as Reine said it may sound harsh but I do not see a successful resolution. And I doubt if you had a million dollars all your fears will disappear you will start to transition. All the reasons you give not to transition will still be valid regardless how much money you have. Yes money does make getting surgeries easier to obtain, but the hard work needed to transition along with the courage and resolve can not be gained because one has money. To the contrary those with easy access to money skipping the necessary steps to determine if transition is right many times regret their decision and poison the public perception of those that do need to transition and do so successfully.

Transition is serious business and there is a very real possibility there will be lots of emotional pain and losses. You can think of yourself in any way you want, but to continue to live and present as male will mean you are a woman in your own head and the world will never see your authentic self. Your authentic self will never be reflected back, so how will that help relive your anguish? Good luck you are in for a bumpy ride.

I agree with Kitty that Lynn's wife does not deserve blame in this. She did not sign up for what she is going through. Raising 3 young children coupled with the uncertainty of her future would certainly put most of us in a stressful state. This is not about somebody wanting to only cross dress and live as a male with no thought process of taking it further. It is about a spouse declaring she is transsexual but not knowing to what extent she want to transition to. There are a few couple on this forum that are still together, this forum aside I personally know no transitioned woman in or out of my support group that is still married. The odds are against it. The best course of action would be the transitioning individual to give their spouse the space needed for their spouse to reach a comfort level of their own. It will not be easy and their will tons of anger and emotional distress, but it the only fair course of action for the non transitioning partner.

[ReineD]

I don't WANT to continue living as male, I HAVE to.....and...you said earlier that I'm passable?? :-D

Yes, you are passable! And believe me, going out as yourself on a regular basis is NOT living as a male when you think of it. How many males do you know who do this? :p

You could tell your wife that you have no wish to transition to a woman full time (this is the truth), but you do feel stuck between genders (this is not a lie), and you do need to take the time to go out and be yourself occasionally more than once per month and you can't do this with hairy legs and wearing a moustache. You can also tell her that you DON'T like yourself looking like a bearded fellow and you need to have the freedom to not be hairy if you don't want to be.

Anyway, I promise you that if you go out at least 100 times (twice per week for a year) to ordinary places and not just TG friendly places even if it is in the next town over (for now), you WILL be much clearer about what you want to do in the long term, and your self description (whatever it will be) will be a heck of a lot more accurate than it might be now, hardly having any experience expressing yourself in public yet. Does this make sense?