@Badtranny - what's wrong with alone time on the 'net?
@ReineD - why can't we be lesbians, and just kind of bad at it because for most of, 'lesbian studies' consisted solely of men's magazine photoshoots?
@Badtranny - what's wrong with alone time on the 'net?
@ReineD - why can't we be lesbians, and just kind of bad at it because for most of, 'lesbian studies' consisted solely of men's magazine photoshoots?
Why not be young and beautiful? if you could choose - but I would settle for a female version of who I am.............................Debra
I calculated that 42% (60 posters) gave an unqualified yes. I wonder, if they were really serious, why they're not actively transitioning? My experience on other transition focused forums is that those who seriously desire transition make it happen, no matter the cost or pain.Originally Posted by ReineD
Well, we see those quotes differently. I see one, or maybe two, of those quotes as sexually related. The others not so much.
I think that if you asked 1000 non-crossdressing males if they would change into a woman you would get a few to say yes with the same kind of qualifications. Actually I also think if you asked women what they would change about themselves you would get a lot of similar body related answers. It's a product of the culture we've been brought up in.
Can't agree that this is men only. I know plenty of women who go gaga over 6-pack abs.
Absolutely. There is a spoken or unspoken fetish component to many a crosdresser's clothing choices.
Speaking for myself, I consider that I have the perfect wife for who I am. But, to her credit, she looks and dresses nothing like I do when I crossdress.
Yes, I found both of Jenni's quotes very insightful, at least for how crossdressing affects me.
Last edited by Taylor186; 06-10-2013 at 06:28 PM.
MODERATOR NOTE:
Several posts, including a couple of my own, were steering this thread off-topic and were reported by two members not involved in this thread. I have deleted those posts, also including my own.
Let's stick to Reine's topic and not turn this into a slagging match between groups that should be supporting each other.
Eryn
Reine has batted the issue back by playing a blinder. Interesting that some of the best questions are raised by a GG. I had not imagined for a moment that the objective of dressing up was to be attractive to myself in 'that' way and it isn't like that. And, when I am in a relationship, I prefer being with the real woman to being my imaginary one - but I do like to have a bit of both.
I am lucky because I have a body that looks good whether it is dressed as a man or a woman or even undressed (as a man, obviously). I don't long for a different body. I could live with less hairy legs, but that is all. Men have fewer insecurities about their bodies than women- and I think the cherrypicking gives crossdressers some of the best of both worlds. In short I am totally happy with male me and female version. Yes, I use a woman's name, the same way I wear a skirt and have painted toes - it adds to the fun - but I do not, in any way, adopt a female identity for msyelf - no matter how I dress. I am acting.
What Reine has made me realise, without her mentioning it specifically, is that my mother (ah yes, said Sigmund, now we are getting somewhere) was really into clothes and looking good. She judged how people looked and dressed without judging them by this. Perhaps I am trying to impress her by looking good or "attractive" (mother would not wish me to look "hot" now, would she? - said Norman Bates). My sister ended up being seriously addicted to clothes and make up - even more than me. She has seen me dressed and just took it in her stride - but no particular feedback on outfits!
I have a bit more to think about now. After 40 years I may have an inkling about why I do this - and the clue came from a GG not another CD or a psychologist. Hmmm. But ... why do I never bother with the wig or make-up when I am not going out, while ALWAYs wearing a bra and forms (except on rare occasions I go out as a man in a skirt)? Maybe I like looking at a female body and legs without seeing an actual woman? If it si relevant, I like my partner to be elegant and beautiful (and at time 'hot') but that is less important than personality - all but one of my partners over the last 30 years was at least one size bigger than me and did not have such nice legs - and this did not matter - they were lovely, lovely women. And I am very lucky that they are still in my life. Elegance is nice, but not as nice as being a lovely, interesting person.
A good analogy is the paradoxical quantum mechanics theory of wave-particle duality which is a big mystery to physicists: matter can indeed have both wave and particle properties at the same time! So it is possible to embody the inner self (internal drive for self-actualization) and at the same time to have an attraction (a drive directed externally) to a person which is at the same time, the self, while keeping the option to switch back to being attractive to a female partner.
… which brings me back to Jenni's explanation in the last paragraph of #62, which is not counter-intuitive for CDers but it does seem counter-intuitive to people like me, for whom self-validation or presentation is NOT entirely separate from the lust (sexual attraction) that is normally directed toward someone else. In other words, unless I am painting the bathroom, I do not present in a way that my SO is not attracted to ... for example he loves my long hair and I have no intention of cutting it because of this. But, Jenni explains that these rules or states of being change with CDers who do want to be attractive (in a way that men more than women find attractive) even if they know that their mode of presentation is not sexually stimulating for their partner if she is a hetero GG. So, they switch back and forth between fantasy and reality. A personal observation is in order here: I am not affected by the way that women look and present themselves. I can be just as friendly with a woman based on her personality, even if she is missing two front teeth, has no boobs, has short legs, and has not combed her hair, as I can be with a woman who is well-groomed. lol. This is because there is never a sexual attraction to other women for me. But, the degree of attractiveness that I perceive in a male WILL affect my reaction to him. To be honest, I'll smile a lot more to an attractive male than I will to an unattractive male. This sounds shallow, but I think this is the rule of the birds and the bees, even if I am in a relationship and have absolutely no intention of stepping outside of it. :p
I also have to say that I find my SO attractive no matter how s/he presents (I do think of him/her as being outside the gender binary), but, I gather this is not the norm.
At any rate, I'm probably making this a lot more complicated than it needs to be, but this is because I am trying to translate your motives (for those of you who've experienced the sexual aspect of CDing) into something that I as a non-CDer can relate to and therefore understand.
Thanks for putting up with me!
P.S. If you have the time, do watch the double slit experiment that I linked to above. It's quite humorous and eerily reminiscent of the behaviors of closeted CDers, which change based on whether they are being observed or not. Hopefully you will all smile at this. I did not post this to criticize in any way.
Taylor, you clearly do not relate to the group of CDers who have experienced the sexual aspect of the CDing, and so it makes sense that you would not read the same things into these words as I do here and in sentiments in other threads from CDers who want to be sexy, including the manner of dress and poses in many of the picture threads. I'm not saying that every CDer has sexualized the CDing, but I do believe that it starts out this way for many (most?) and it does stay that way for a significant percentage at least until middle age when the natural processes of aging take hold.
Last edited by ReineD; 06-10-2013 at 07:46 PM.
Reine
Well, since I don't consider myself a very atractive male, if I were transformed to a female, I would not be very atttactive. So If i could be instantly turned female, I would hope to be at least an average looking woman with great legs.
The What....The Who.....
Reine, Riene, Your just being honest. Everybody likes pretty people. Human nature.
I dress because I love it. I gave up trying to answer why because it gives me to many brain problems.:D
Reine , this is a paradox that I do not understand either. I do not wish to become a woman ,and am still trying to come to terms with why I wish to cd at all . I do not wish to attract male attention , but as far as things go , I wish to look , to feel as feminine and beautiful as I possibly can . This makes me stay behind closed doors and spinning in circles. if I wanted to be a woman I suppose attracting male attention would be "normal" but I don't and I don't so why even bother.
The line from a Van Morrison song , "Wild Night" , come to mind , " the girls walk by dressed up for each other ". Women know the effort required to look beautiful and if I could pull it off and be accepted for that then even if they are not sexually attracted to me but think I look sexy that would be the thing I am looking for. The side effect though is that you look sexy and therefore attract attention from men even though that is not your intent.
This is the thought that keeps me spinning in the circle of self loathing and self acceptance where I continually find myself.
I don't know why , but I am .
Reine, I want to thank you for starting and maintaining this wonderful thread. It has been the most thought provoking one yet for me in the few years I've been checking in. I also want to thank in particular Jennie, Taylor, and in this last post, Jonnie, for your contributions. You all have kept me thinking...
Reine, I believe you are absolutely on track with your questions, and I believe the range of responses have reflected the range of experiences and intentions we all experience.
I wonder if ambivalence is a powerful force at play in crossdressing, and to varying degrees for most of us, possibly changing from day to day. I remember a cover story in Rolling Stone in the early '80's on Stevie Nicks, with a subtitle to the effect of 'the girl every other girl wants to be and every boy wants to be with'. Or, to put it another way, to what extent do (at least some) crossdressers find themselves in the middle of this question, i.e. di I want to BE the object of my desire (some construct internalized as feminine), BE WITH that, or..., BOTH?
Obviously, the starting point of this question (or quest) is from a masculine perspective of being the "other" or outsider to the feminine and colors everything that follows (as you point out Reine in discussing GG's focus on grooming and others note the focus on dressing by GG's to fit in and dress/style frequently for each other). "Sexy, "hot", "pretty, etc. becomes a projection of desire, I would argue for many who crossdress, of a specific personal idealized sense of feminine onto themselves. I would argue that the wide range of intentions described here daily is a manifestation of this process. Or, to what degree today do I want to BE or BE with that projection, or, maybe both.
Or, I can say at least this is what I experience. And it always seems to be a moving target.
Hope this adds to the conversation.
Kate
What an interesting thread, much good discussion. I think embracing our female side is a natural thing, although some have much trouble with it. Being a woman has much less to do with our birth sex than it does how we perceive ourselves. I really think that once an individual comes to grips with who they really are, who they really want to be, things (kind of) become easier. A few years ago, after many years of questioning who I really was, I turned to womanhood. To this day, while I can't truly live out my life the way I would want it to be, I have made so many strides. While I still outwardly dress male during the workday, I always wear panties and from time to time a bra under the right outfit. After work and on the weekend, I am all girl.
Once I started doing full body shaves, wearing my hair and nails longer, more womanlike, I felt like it was the real me. Not long there after, I discovered breast forms and how really good I could look when fully dressed. I loved my new life and practiced it as often as I could. I threw away all my male underwear and replaced it with pretty panties of various styles and colors, which I started wearing every day. I love the feel of a bra and started wearing them more often.
Oh and then the pretty nylon dresses and skirts! OMG, the first time I put one on I knew where my destiny was. Wearing heels was a bit of a challenge at first, but I worked through that and learned how to walk and posture myself as a woman.
Not long thereafter, I started making (limited) trips out in public, fully dressed.
In the privacy of my home, I live openly as a woman. I love every aspect of it!
Would love to chat with other women beginning their experience.
Dani
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