Monty Python.Originally Posted by RebeccaLynne
British comedy troupe. Had a TV show, and then a few movies, of which my favorite is Life of Brian. They had, I think, just one GG in the troupe. The rest of the female roles were played by the men, using really bad falsettoes for female voices.
I did not say all CDs are TVFs. I meant her spouse, from her description, is probably a TVF, and that statistically speaking it was much more likely than her husband being a TS. Maybe I was not clear about what I meant, so I revised my post.
I have been involved with the trans community for almost 20 years, in both a personal and then later a professional capacity as well.
Last edited by Vickie_CDTV; 07-06-2013 at 05:20 AM.
For those who say T's need their own organization, last week the Gender Justice League held a Trans-Pride Parade in Seattle a day or so before the regular Pride Parade. It's starting to come together, if we would get involved in our local towns (safely- not all locales are quite so open-minded), we can make a difference.
Hugs All!
Traci Melissa Knight
To thine own self be true
When the student is ready, the teacher will appear
So when you talk ofPlease quote specifically where I (the original poster said that... 'cause it isn't in existence. Never was, never did. Nothing has been edited.when the T already encompasses cross-dressers, what is your purpose? I made the obvious assumption that since you wanted CD specified separately from T that you intended to separate the two groups in peoples' minds. If that is not true, then why split them out?
The context of my words in your second quote clearly shows that they are a direct reply to Briana, so why (unless your intention is to create conflict) do you treat them as if they were addressed to you?I'd suggest you do... and don't try to put words down, attributed to me, that I've never written... do your research!
Check out this link if you are wondering about joining Safe Haven.
This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist :facepalm:
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
This thread is like so many Internet forum threads, there's a whole lot or writing, but very little reading. What little reading is done only with the thought of how one is going to reply to the past that has just been read.
With that in mind, if you put a different definition to a word than the general public and use that word in conversations, you will be misunderstood at best, taken for an idiot or punched at worst.
If you call a person "transgendered" or "queer" when they don't believe they are, you have put yourself in that situation. Beware.
[SIGPIC]http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=82706&dateline=137762 0356[/SIGPIC]Linda
Around here, CD's are part of the "T" in LGBT. I just don't CD's who feel they aren't part of the transgender community. In the Chicago area, we've been rubbing elbows with the LGB for decades, "expanding their horizons", as you suggest.
CD's are part of the "T".
Carol
My name is Carol.
The attitude towards bisexuals was similar, but I think a lot of that has dissipated over the years. At the root of it is strength in numbers. When it comes time to vote for marriage equality, etc., does it really make a difference WHERE the votes come from? In my home state, we have legal same-sex marriage, but the GENDA (gender expression non-discrimination act) legislation has stalled. That's the one that has a lot of implications for us, but by ourselves I don't think we have the wherewithal to gain enough support.
I think we definatly should be considered under the transgendered umbrella since we are all at some point of transgendered. Besides we put it all out there more than the lesbians or gays, they don't have to announce it to everyone they come in contact with. Once we're dressed we are who we are for all the world to see unless you are one of the fourtunate ones that can totaly pass. So I wecome them since we are all in this together and we are stronger as one.
I can see how the straight crossdressers among us can have a problem aligning themselves with the gay rights movement (speaking in broad terms). However, be aware of the larger picture. Remember that there were scores of whites involved in the black civil rights movement. There were men who were strong supporters of the women's rights movement. Political alignment does NOT require that you be of that group.
Do you wonder how a gay or lesbian feels about being grouped with us? They don't wear the clothes of another gender!
All I ever wanted was to be a girl. Is that really asking too much?
Hmmmm....
Lesbian
Gay
Bi-sexual
The others
I'm happy with that.
**-* Kath *-**
Let them see that their words can cut you and you’ll never be free of the mockery. If they want to give you a name, take it, make it your own. Then they can’t hurt you with it anymore.
― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
The are always exceptions to every premise...
I've spent a fair bit of time with gay and lesbian activists, and they've been very supportive of the transgender community. The year I went to Out & Equal (a workplace equality conference) I met a lot of people who were trying to understand how better to accommodate the transgender community at work. We really do have a shared struggle in many ways: people express disapproval of all of us for regions reasons, our spouses may get uncomfortable about being perceived as being in a same sex relationship, and we all make easy targets for bullies.
There are obviously individuals who feel differently, but then there are gay men who don't want to have anything to do with lesbians or vice versa, and members of both groups who think bisexuals are confused. It doesn't mean much. There are self-absorbed people everywhere who are unable to empathize with anyone else.
~ Kimberly
“To escape criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." - Elbert Hubbard
I looked into a similar group in Austin and all I found was a group that meets monthly in restaurants I can't afford, dressed or drab, your choice.
I didn't go to the Pride parade last weekend, so I can't speak from a true position of knowledge, but the LGBs I know around here are very anti-trans. I have a good friend who moved to El Paso a year ago who stumbled across a crossdresser, and then made several Facebook posts going basically "tranny this, tranny that, I hate trannies, they're so pretentious, why can't they just choose a sex?" To which I answered "The T in LGBT stands for 'Transgender', and that's the word you should be using." Came within an inch of dropping him like a ton of bricks, but thought maybe I could hang in there and educate the poor boy.
It's ok to be a "butch" lesbian or an effeminate man, but heaven forbid you should want to wear her clothes. :/
I need to do more research. I'd be totally interested in forming a political/social activist group for trans people here in Austin. I just need to make sure there isn't one already that I should join.
Thanks for this plain statement. We are indeed a part of the "T" in "LGBT" (or LGBTQ or LGBGTQQ or whatever new slice someone wants to posit). My historical favorite was LBGT, which stood for Lesbigators. That pretty much floats my boat. Certainly a more useful and endearing species in general than legislators...
I read a book (I think about 15 years ago) that examined the utility of non-discrimination statutes vis-á-vis larger societal remedies such as marriage and military equality. It made a compelling argument that laws forbidding discrimination had less effect than opening doors in the more fundamental institutions of equality in a society. In other words, making it illegal to discriminate in employment and housing matters less than normalizing participation of minorities in civil marriage and military service, both of which command inherent respect. I think it's a good argument, and it's been gratifying to see this larger equality emerge over the years. The more equal we are all seen by each other, the less need there will be for mandatory corrective regulations.
So, rejoice in marriage equality in New York, as we do here in California. Rejoice in the end of DADT, even if a TG bias remains to be dealt with (I knew a post-op TS who remained in the military in the 1980s, before DADT, and served ably). For these will do us more good in the long run than all the nondiscrimination rules we can pass.
Last edited by Rianna Humble; 07-06-2013 at 10:04 PM. Reason: Multiposts are not allowed in any forum.
Not to throw cold water, but my impression is that more often than not, when a state, county, town, village, or municipality is considering some new protection of rights statute, rule, etc. for the GLBTQ? community, the "T" gets thrown under the bus as a compromise to get the law passed to protect the 'overall' community, "Ts" be damned. YMMD.
Rhonda
Indeed, what you say suggests that those of us who are married to supportive spouses should be out publicly so we can help change attitudes just by being. For every person who gets away with a comment like "What kind of woman would want to be with THAT?" there's probably at least one who says that to his wife and she says "There's no questioning love, and I think it's great that they're together."
On that last --- couldn't agree more. TELL THE GLB community that!
RD
Greenie, you've nailed it!
I was in Florida on business earlier this year and Rhonda went along (actually, traveled en femme the whole way - first time ever). Rhonda was itching to get out in the evening and, being in a less than liberal part of the state, went on line and found what appeared as the only GLB bar in town. Went in and was initially ignored by the wait staff until Andrew, the owner came up, intro'd himself and we struck up a conversation. I closed the place at 3:30 am after hours of explaining CD and TS to a huge GLB group. They had no idea, no prior comprehension or understanding -- nothing -- about us. I think I changed some attitudes that night, but that same work needs to be done throughout the GLB communities.
Ladies, get going!!
RD
Tina is so right -- to a point. The Stonewall riots in NYC involved transvestites - the gay crossdressers of the time. Not show people, but gays who portrayed as women in clubs, bars etc. now it is difficult to find anyone under 50 in the LGBT community who know the history, or who care. The outcome (long term) of Stonewall was the long slugfest battle for LGB rights a "war" they have won in many places, and are wining in most other places. The hetero trans and CD is suckling hind teat on that front.
RD
Last edited by Rianna Humble; 07-06-2013 at 10:06 PM. Reason: Multiposts are not allowed in any forum.
Indeed, for anybody who doesn't know, the Stonewall Riots essentially birthed the modern LGBT movement. Oddly enough, those riots directly correspond to Rosa Parks wanting to sit in the front of the bus, in that the riots did for the LGBT world what Rosa Park's passive defiance did to the civil rights movement.
I always wonder why the civil rights movement didn't include LGBTs until recently. Even feminism is only just now realizing that women's rights depend on LGBT rights, because among the reasons LGBTs are persecuted is because they are seen to be women. Even so, there's at least one feminist organization that explicitly excludes TG rights on the basis that we crossdressers try to have it both ways. We get male privilege when we want it, and female privilege when we want that, but we never have to suffer the way women do.
Rianna, I'll try this again... my post #95 quoting your post #81:
That was your inference, not what I wrote.
My intention was for you to re-read the opening post. As I've pointed out, your inference was mistaken.
Now, on to your post #104:
Not all crossdressers are transgender or transsexuals. Just wearing the clothing of a gender other than your own doesn't make you T, unless your definition is much broader than mine... maybe that's the case.
And I feel you're being overly confrontational in asking, "What is your purpose?" with such a challenging presentation.
My purpose is not to separate, but to include, crossdressing under the LGBT umbrella. Nothing underlying or sinister, I can assure you.
Once again, your post #81 quoted in my post #95:
That's all I quoted, not what you've indicated in your post #104:
Rianna, your response was a total misrepresentation, and completely erroneous. I think you might want to go back in and set the record straight.
My intention is to stimulate conversation and discussion in an area of interest to the community at-large... rather, I think it is you who may be more interested in creating conflict.
I'm just looking for people's thoughts on the subject at hand.
@RebeccaLynne...The T covers the crossdressing community as they give a "transgender presentation" while being "crossdressed". The Q is also important to add as it covers those that choose to present to the world in a "half baked" fashion..partially dressed as either gender..If we think of the word "queer" to mean odd,then we can have inclusion for those that choose to prance around their living rooms in a "tutu"..that is if we use "Q" to describe "odd". My opinion is that people need to see AND STAND UP FOR the bigger picture..which is acceptance of individual rights..
It SURE is my hair ! I have the receipt and the box it came in !
Precisely yoou took my words out of context in order to pretend that they were addressed to you. Once again you have deliberately removed what I was telling Brianna to reread.
Not misrepresentation at all Cross-dressers are crossing the gender divide which is the definition of Transgender.
You reject any that don't coincide with your agendaI'm just looking for people's thoughts on the subject at hand.
Check out this link if you are wondering about joining Safe Haven.
This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist :facepalm:
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
To answer the original question.
Rebecca you are as a CDer already included. You are part of the "T" in LGBT. No transitioning is required.
It really is that simple.
I'm an out and about CD'er. I do wear dresses and womens' clothes in public.
I have not done HRT, but I have shoulder length hair and about over a year and a half's worth of laser and electrolysis to rid my facial hair.
I like my guy self....I also like my girl self.
I don't know what I am. Do I qualify as T in LGBT? I don't know.
Do I care? No.
Maybe this will answer the question once and for all: We are all correct! Taken from UC Berkeley's Gender Resource Center:
Transgender
Transgender (sometimes shortened to trans or TG) people are those whose psychological self ("gender identity") differs from the social expectations for the physical sex they were born with. To understand this, one must understand the difference between biological sex, which is one's body (genitals, chromosomes, ect.), and social gender, which refers to levels of masculinity and femininity. Often, society conflates sex and gender, viewing them as the same thing. But, gender and sex are not the same thing.Transgender people are those whose psychological self ("gender identity") differs from the social expectations for the physical sex they were born with. For example, a female with a masculine gender identity or who identifies as a man.
An umbrella term for transsexuals, cross-dressers (transvestites), transgenderists, gender queers, and people who identify as neither female nor male and/or as neither a man or as a woman. Transgender is not a sexual orientation;transgender people may have any sexual orientation. It is important to acknowledge that while some people may fit under this definition of transgender, they may not identify as such.
I bolded the last part on purpose, there is a subjective component to the second definition. And I expect that a lot of others will bold other parts to support their arguments or POV/
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