Yes! Unfortunately, this is what women put up with on a daily basis. Responding to the remarks/jerks simply emboldens them.Originally Posted by sara.s
Yes! Unfortunately, this is what women put up with on a daily basis. Responding to the remarks/jerks simply emboldens them.
When writing the next chapter in your life, start with a pencil and eraser - my first page as Miki is full of eraser marks.
Yup - completely legal to talk in public.Now if they said things like "I'd like to cut your head off and use it as a bowling ball" then you could conceivably get them for assault, but it probably wouldn't go far.
Reminds me of a time I decided to wander through a local mall wearing a long denim skirt, nice knit top, and sandals. Now I can by no means pass since I'm mostly bald and have had a beard for 40 years and I'm not interested in shaving it off, so I definitely was not blending in at all. Anyway, nobody paid me any attention at all as I walked the entire length of the mall and headed back to my starting point. About halfway back I passed a group of guys, most of them probably "twenty-somethings" who were standing around on the other side of the mall. As I passed them I heard a bunch of "wolf whistles" - I took a quick look in the nearest store window and saw they were all looking my direction. Then I looked at the other people in my vicinity: they were all looking at those guys - not at me! It looked like they had tried to get a reaction out of me, but only succeeded in calling attention to themselves! I smiled and continued with my walk...
Ambigendrous
Wealth should not be measured by how much you have, but by how little you need - anon
I really doubt that it is illegal. Putting up with assholes is something we have to deal with because of the amount of freedom of speech we have.
Deedee
It's not wrong... but it is forbidden!
I assume that both you and the TS each has a peni5, so technically they were accurate, no? Unless the TS friend has an F on his/her government issued ID.
You were wise to not involve the cops. They might have worse prejudice and take you to jail for some minor thing just to humiliate you.
A men's jail is a very bad place to be when you are in a dress... and if either of you has a peni5 , that's where you would be.
Readers should keep in mind that the original poster was in California, where there are transgender rights laws.
What I do not know is what the laws in that jurisdiction include, exactly.
Laws about discrimination are usually relevant to commerce and the provision of services, employment, housing, and the like. In the USA, those laws seldom refer to speech in a public place.
The place that I would look, if I were researching this, would be in Civil Rights Acts. Sometimes Civil Rights laws contain protection for dignity in situations where the actions are not otherwise illegal.
California does not require you have a gender reassignment surgery to be legally female. Also, many cops assigned to patrol Hillcrest (the neighborhood I was in) are themselves gay or at least lgbt. So they are more liberal than you think.
This is America. Everyone has the right be an ass. Only threatening comments can be construed as actionable and at that, it is he said she said.
Forget that crap. Walk on and don't give anyone the satisfaction of knowing they got to you.
Nope, it only says that congress can't regulate it.
They didn't break any laws because sexual harassment is legal.
Sara - some day, they will grow up - you already have!
If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got!
I doubt they were breaking the law. And the police would probably not have been inclined to do anything...I have seen them ignore much worse, including a domestic violence call....but keep in mind that a group of four boys will quickly feel compelled to ridicule us...out of their own fear.....if they don't make fun of us, someone might think they are ok with crossdressing...an impossible scenario for a young stud....your options in reacting are limited...CDs have been beaten (probably not often) in such confrontations, and it's hard to fight in heels and a dress....bottom line, we can't control the immature, even cruel behavior of others, but we can control how it affects us....Walking away, and still being comfortable who you are, is I think a victory. The young assholes will never struggle with the dilemmas we do, and would never have the courage to do what we do.
As a native Californian I would like to clarify, yes we have transgender protection laws here, most of us are proud of that fact. But in this case, no laws where broken, even with our laws, we still believe in free speech, which is all that was. The louts stayed on the opposite side of the street, as far as reported, did not swear, threaten or try in any way to harm them, they just where rude. While many would like to make rude illegal, if we did how many of us would wind up behind bars.
Unfortunately, if you are going out, it's something you just have to risk, that's why everyone around here are always preaching to play safe, there are mean people in this world, and if you wear a dress, from time to time your going to meet one.
Magic is the art of changing consciousness at will.
The best policy is to put a whole lot of gone between you and them.
ALWAYS plan for the worst, then you can be pleasantly surprised if something else happens!
"The important thing about the bear is not how well she dances, but that she dances at all." - Old Russian Proverb (with a gender change)
I see San Antonio just passed an anti-discrimination law against the gay and transgendered communities. It was reported that there were 180 other large cities where similar laws were passed within the last few years. Woo Hoo!
It's the Giuliani rule. When Mayor Giuliani wanted to stop panhandlers who threatened visitors to New York, he was told it wasn't allowed, because the pan-handlers had freedom of speech. They could sit on the corner and shake their cups and ask for money because they weren't hurting anybody. Giuliani was then reminded that if they made THREATS, that would be third degree assault, and the people could be taken in for the night, would pay a fine, and would be released the next day. The ploy worked brilliantly. The pan handlers had to change their tactics, blessing those who DID give money rather than trying to curse or threaten those who did not.
So long as there were no direct threats, they were within their legal rights. Any threat of any kind however, would have been enough to take them down, book them, and have them spend the night in jail. Often, men who are very intoxicated make this mistake, and because they are otherwise drunk and disorderly, the 3rd degree assault is enough to keep them overnight until they sober up.
There is an interesting twist however. By calling you "boys" while you were presenting as women, they were drawing attention to you, making you a target, and putting you at risk of actual violence. This is the same reason why it's illegal in most states for a business to force a TS or CD presenting as female to use the men's room. It makes them a target for those who could harm them physically, financially (telling employers or coworkers), or socially (outing them at church). Most businesses don't want to risk the liability, especially the liability if they made a scene, so they normally only intervene if there appears to be "peeping" or "flashing" in the ladies room. Obviously, threatening behavior such as lewd remarks in the ladies room could get YOU the ride downtown.
The officer might have observed the group, to see if they did anything else to anyone that might have been considered threatening. In addition, he might have let the owner know that these particular customers had insulted passers by. Businesses generally don't like having customers who drive away potential customers. You were walking by a bar in a gay neighborhood - do you really think the owner wants those clowns scaring away paying customers - like you? Who else are they insulting? intimidating? How many customers did they drive away before you came by? How many after?Later we saw a cop car pass by and we were wondering if we should have waved to stop him and tell him about the incident.
Was what the four guys did legal?
It's quite likely that even though what they did might have been legal, there may have been consequences if they continued the behavior over any period of time.
If that's your real photo, and your friend was TS, then neither of you were so "over the top" as to draw attention to yourself. Very likely the owner either 86'd them, or told them to take a seat - in the back of the bar, next to the kitchen doors.
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